Fiona
Well-Known Member
Mike Tucker has just said the same thing about capiscin, but scientifically it can't be both surely.
Anyone know a vet they can ask.
FIona
Anyone know a vet they can ask.
FIona
Lynch withdraws from competition
- Thread starter CastleMouse
- Start date
ladyt25
Well-Known Member
Cruiseline - completely off the pont but LOVE the dun in your pics! What breed is he?
As for the doping (if that is the case) it is such a shame . Wonder what it will actually turn out to be? Sure we'll be updated soon enough. I shall reserve my judgement til then but a real shame as I thought Norway did well.
As for the doping (if that is the case) it is such a shame . Wonder what it will actually turn out to be? Sure we'll be updated soon enough. I shall reserve my judgement til then but a real shame as I thought Norway did well.
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
I was chief steward at an SJ international competition and one evening when doing stable checks, I found one of the international teams using almost the same product on the coronet bands of their horses. You could smell it a mile off. they were tested and they were banned!!!!!!!!
weevil
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As a trainee vet, perhaps you can explain this to me. The FEI statement says about the substance that it has hypersensitivity, but also pain relieving properties. Surely these 2 are opposites and mutually exclusive. I can't see how a substance can make something more sensitive, but also less sensitive (ie pain relief).
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In the short term it does make you hypersensitive but then the pain relieving properties come from receptor desensitisation. It is very difficult to remove from the skin as it is not water soluble (I know this as I was using some the other week and accidentally got some on my face
)
As a trainee vet, perhaps you can explain this to me. The FEI statement says about the substance that it has hypersensitivity, but also pain relieving properties. Surely these 2 are opposites and mutually exclusive. I can't see how a substance can make something more sensitive, but also less sensitive (ie pain relief).
[/ QUOTE ]
In the short term it does make you hypersensitive but then the pain relieving properties come from receptor desensitisation. It is very difficult to remove from the skin as it is not water soluble (I know this as I was using some the other week and accidentally got some on my face
Fiona
Well-Known Member
Go and get a text book or something please.
Can understand that a drug which causes hypersensitivity would be a banned substance, could be rubbed on the legs perhaps so it would hurt more if hits a pole, and obviously pain relief drugs are not allowed.
How can the same substance be both though???? and how could four/five riders from different countries be caught out?
Fiona
Can understand that a drug which causes hypersensitivity would be a banned substance, could be rubbed on the legs perhaps so it would hurt more if hits a pole, and obviously pain relief drugs are not allowed.
How can the same substance be both though???? and how could four/five riders from different countries be caught out?
Fiona
weevil
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
but scientifically it can't be both surely.
Anyone know a vet they can ask.
FIona
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Yes it can. There are many compounds which act as both agonists and antagonists depending on dose/route of administration etc...
but scientifically it can't be both surely.
Anyone know a vet they can ask.
FIona
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it can. There are many compounds which act as both agonists and antagonists depending on dose/route of administration etc...
Fiona
Well-Known Member
Dr Weevil-Am assuming your second paragraph is the answer and not quoting me, cause I didn't say that.
Thanks for explaining!! I guess I know a little science, but not enough obviously.
Fiona
Thanks for explaining!! I guess I know a little science, but not enough obviously.
Fiona
weevil
Well-Known Member
Yes - sorry, have edited my reply to sort out the quotes
CastleMouse
Well-Known Member
I suppose it could be considered as chemical rapping...
Fiona
Well-Known Member
Thats what I was thinking - but how awful that is seems to be in fairly general use in different countries. Poor horses!!
After 2012, I will be surprised if the equestrian sport continue to be in the olympics.
I love your new siggie BTW Cm.
FIona
After 2012, I will be surprised if the equestrian sport continue to be in the olympics.
I love your new siggie BTW Cm.
FIona
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
Thank you DrWeevil, doesnt sound terribly pleasant to me :S
I am hoping it isn't in general use but there must be SOME explanatin?Or are they only just able to test for it?
Agreed Fiona re: equestrian events, thats two sets running big drug controversy in sjing.. :S
I am hoping it isn't in general use but there must be SOME explanatin?Or are they only just able to test for it?
Agreed Fiona re: equestrian events, thats two sets running big drug controversy in sjing.. :S
weevil
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you DrWeevil, doesnt sound terribly pleasant to me :S
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It isn't. It does have its uses phramacologically but I can verify that at a reasonably high concentration it hurts like hell...
Thank you DrWeevil, doesnt sound terribly pleasant to me :S
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It isn't. It does have its uses phramacologically but I can verify that at a reasonably high concentration it hurts like hell...
CastleMouse
Well-Known Member
"Equi-Block is a topical pain reliever for the temporary relief of minor aches and pains associated with arthritis, tendonitis, strains, sprains and simple backache in horses. Scientifically formulated for racehorses. Contains capsaicin, will not test positive."
http://www.kyhorse.com/store/health/liniments/equiblock.htm
Now that is very interesting...
http://www.kyhorse.com/store/health/liniments/equiblock.htm
Now that is very interesting...
lucretia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I was chief steward at an SJ international competition and one evening when doing stable checks, I found one of the international teams using almost the same product on the coronet bands of their horses. You could smell it a mile off. they were tested and they were banned!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
yes but the smell is why their legs and boots are checked immediately after jumping, you can smell it and it is only on the coronet bands that it works and you have to do it very soon before jumping, so i dont really see how it couldnt have not bbeen noticed by the stewards around the ring. and the stable managers are allowed to make 'observartions' of this nature to the ground jury if they are worried. i think there is something wrong here.
I was chief steward at an SJ international competition and one evening when doing stable checks, I found one of the international teams using almost the same product on the coronet bands of their horses. You could smell it a mile off. they were tested and they were banned!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
yes but the smell is why their legs and boots are checked immediately after jumping, you can smell it and it is only on the coronet bands that it works and you have to do it very soon before jumping, so i dont really see how it couldnt have not bbeen noticed by the stewards around the ring. and the stable managers are allowed to make 'observartions' of this nature to the ground jury if they are worried. i think there is something wrong here.
weevil
Well-Known Member
surely the smell depends on what product is being used. Capsaicin on it's own doesn't smell...
CastleMouse
Well-Known Member
SJAI/HSI Statement - http://www.sjai.ie/Denis%20Lynch%20Olympic%20Statement%2021.8.pdf
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
isn't it just..
lucretia
Well-Known Member
indeed
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
Equiblock doesn't smell, nor does it burn particularly when it's applied. It doesn't even look like Tiger Balm. The claim is the pain relieving effect comes into effect within 30 minutes so the question about whether or not it's a good sensitiser is very valid.
The big claim to fame of the product is "it does not test" which has been true up to this point for race horses, their target market. Sounds like someone believed the label a little too easily.
Now raw capsaicin applied to the skin, I have no idea. That does sound like it would blister and sting, and my experience with hot peppers would suggest similar.
Is it not also what's in those "Black as Night" coat conditioners? I'm pretty sure they're cayenne peppers.
The big claim to fame of the product is "it does not test" which has been true up to this point for race horses, their target market. Sounds like someone believed the label a little too easily.
Now raw capsaicin applied to the skin, I have no idea. That does sound like it would blister and sting, and my experience with hot peppers would suggest similar.
Is it not also what's in those "Black as Night" coat conditioners? I'm pretty sure they're cayenne peppers.
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
One reason horses legs are checked directly after jumping, is because there has been a spate of riders using small sharp beads on the inside of boots.
As well as to check for any sensitive areas around the coronet bands.
You would be amazed at what they get up to!!!!!!!!!
As well as to check for any sensitive areas around the coronet bands.
You would be amazed at what they get up to!!!!!!!!!
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
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Cruiseline - completely off the pont but LOVE the dun in your pics! What breed is he?
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Just to answer your question, not to hijack the thread!!!!!
He is a Bucksin 5 year old Oldenburg stallion by Lefevre out of a Trakhener x Kinsky mare, graded AES and just started his dressage career with a 76% Novice freestyle and qualified for the Regionals.
Cruiseline - completely off the pont but LOVE the dun in your pics! What breed is he?
[/ QUOTE ]
Just to answer your question, not to hijack the thread!!!!!
He is a Bucksin 5 year old Oldenburg stallion by Lefevre out of a Trakhener x Kinsky mare, graded AES and just started his dressage career with a 76% Novice freestyle and qualified for the Regionals.
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
What sort of Olympic rider would use ANY product without checking out its ingredients first???? This STINKS. I'm ASHAMED to be Irish today I'm afraid
.
And I'm ashamed of showjumping.
And I'm ashamed of showjumping.
Puppy
Well-Known Member
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MY GOODNESS!! That horse is stunning, just stunning!
You must be super proud!
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MY GOODNESS!! That horse is stunning, just stunning!