Manège without planning

Coblette said:
No I think it’s more the noise from lessons and also it’s very visible from the house
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Noisy lessons? What on earth do these people think will be happening?
And I'm sorry but no-one can dictate what their neighbours do on their own land just because you can see it from your house. Good heavens I can see for miles from my windows, that would be an awful lot of people that I could interfere with, on that basis.
 
Coblette said:
Gosh I only asked what the rules were for a friend! No one is reporting anyone.
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I believe the rule would be that if the land is Agricultural land by building a menage no matter what the surface there has been a change of use & that requires planning permission yes.
To exercise/school/jump horses on land requires a change of use from Agricultural to Equestrian.
 
As someone who jumped through all the relevant planning hoops to get full permissions for our arena, stables and shelters I'm rather surprised that so many people think it's none of a neighbour's business if an arena gets put in without planning?

Planning is there to protect us all. I agree that if this is just a bit of fencing and some sand then it does not need planning, but if it goes on to be the full thing then it most certainly does.

Our planners were both very helpful but very specific as to what the lay out should be. Our neighbours were fully consulted throughout, and all were happy. A near neighbour in a barn conversion had a nightmare when all her neighbours ganged up to try and prevent planning for her arena, they even did letter drops advising people living some distance away to complain. She got her planning nonetheless.

As to noisy lessons, well yes, they are noisy. Horsey voices carry a long way! I can't operate any sort of an equestrian business from here under my planning consent but can have visiting instructors.
 
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I have a neighbour whose land runs on to ours. We have got on well with them, but he is a chancer, and has managed to build a grass landing strip raising the ground level, built a large temporary hanger, the cover of which blew away, so just the frame is standing, and the small holding now has a house on it, which they had to give him because he had lived in non mobile home for over four years, so did not need planning.
My patience has now worn thin, as it is a tip, of half built projects, I have planted a screening hedge but its going to have to grow 12metres until you do not see the mess. That's the problem you get mission creep, 'no one minds' so they do a bit more. I am now hopefully going to control any further projects with a ransom strip, and informing the planning department and highways he does not have safe access.
Your friend is only asking what the rules are, and does it comply. If you put up an ag shed it still has to comply with permitted development planning.
 
Tiddlypom said:
As someone who jumped through all the relevant planning hoops to get full permissions for our arena, stables and shelters I'm rather surprised that so many people think it's none of a neighbour's business if an arena gets put in without planning?

Planning is there to protect us all. I agree that if this is just a bit of fencing and some sand then it does not need planning, but if it goes on to be the full thing then it most certainly does.

Our planners were both very helpful but very specific as to what the lay out should be. Our neighbours were fully consulted throughout, and all were happy. A near neighbour in a barn conversion had a nightmare when all her neighbours ganged up to try and prevent planning for her arena, they even did letter drops advising people living some distance away to complain. She got her planning nonetheless.

As to noisy lessons, well yes, they are noisy. Horsey voices carry a long way! I can't operate any sort of an equestrian business from here under my planning consent but can have visiting instructors.
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I think most posters were surprised at the fuss being made about a fence being erected. I wouldn't be surprised if the owner of said fence had his tongue firmly in his cheek when answering questions about why he was putting fencing up on his own land.
It's quite a stretch from a bit of fencing to an equestrian business. The time to complain IMHO would be when there is evidence of something which needs PP being constructed without permission.
 
Tiddlypom said:
As someone who jumped through all the relevant planning hoops to get full permissions for our arena, stables and shelters I'm rather surprised that so many people think it's none of a neighbour's business if an arena gets put in without planning?

Planning is there to protect us all. I agree that if this is just a bit of fencing and some sand then it does not need planning, but if it goes on to be the full thing then it most certainly does.

Our planners were both very helpful but very specific as to what the lay out should be. Our neighbours were fully consulted throughout, and all were happy. A near neighbour in a barn conversion had a nightmare when all her neighbours ganged up to try and prevent planning for her arena, they even did letter drops advising people living some distance away to complain. She got her planning nonetheless.

As to noisy lessons, well yes, they are noisy. Horsey voices carry a long way! I can't operate any sort of an equestrian business from here under my planning consent but can have visiting instructors.
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This is exactly what I struggled with having too jumped through all the relevant planning hoops to get full permission, had refusals, & paid the planning fees, plus we have a restrictive covenant on both our land & the neighbours, for them to just do exactly as they please because they are hidden from sight from the road. Does push your moral compass somewhat!
 
honetpot said:
I have a neighbour whose land runs on to ours. We have got on well with them, but he is a chancer, and has managed to build a grass landing strip raising the ground level, built a large temporary hanger, the cover of which blew away, so just the frame is standing, and the small holding now has a house on it, which they had to give him because he had lived in non mobile home for over four years, so did not need planning.
My patience has now worn thin, as it is a tip, of half built projects, I have planted a screening hedge but its going to have to grow 12metres until you do not see the mess. That's the problem you get mission creep, 'no one minds' so they do a bit more. I am now hopefully going to control any further projects with a ransom strip, and informing the planning department and highways he does not have safe access.
Your friend is only asking what the rules are, and does it comply. If you put up an ag shed it still has to comply with permitted development planning.
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I have exactly this scenario too - mission creep - & I kick myself for not intervening at the start too!
 
YorksG said:
That really was not how it read
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I don’t understand how, just because it’s horse related, that people should be about to do what they like. Rules are rules. If they put a surface down which should have had planning, the OP’s friend has every right to complain. It wouldn’t be petty or wrong, they will have broken the Law!
 
meleeka said:
I don’t understand how, just because it’s horse related, that people should be about to do what they like. Rules are rules. If they put a surface down which should have had planning, the OP’s friend has every right to complain. It wouldn’t be petty or wrong, they will have broken the Law!
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Indeed, but currently the landowner has fenced a part of their field, which they are entitled to do
 
Spotherisk said:
Look on the district councils interactive planning map to see if anything has been applied for.
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Not a bad shout!

I've recently had to get planning for 2 shipping containers that have sat on our land for about 10-12yrs. They were there before we were. We've used them for storage of hay and tack/feed room. A new neighbour arrived and complained about pretty much everything they could see from all windows in their house (even the bus stop outside the house). and sure enough we got a letter from the planning office.

We jumped through all the hoops, paid a small fortune to apply for them to stay, got technical drawings etc etc. but when it came to the council doing their bit. They sent me the notices to put up. They wanted photos to prove we had put them in visible areas, but there was nothing to stop us taking them straight down again and not leaving them up for the 3 weeks specified. The council planning offices are so overrun with work they just don't have time to check everything
 
dorsetladette said:
Not a bad shout!

I've recently had to get planning for 2 shipping containers that have sat on our land for about 10-12yrs. They were there before we were. We've used them for storage of hay and tack/feed room. A new neighbour arrived and complained about pretty much everything they could see from all windows in their house (even the bus stop outside the house). and sure enough we got a letter from the planning office.

We jumped through all the hoops, paid a small fortune to apply for them to stay, got technical drawings etc etc. but when it came to the council doing their bit. They sent me the notices to put up. They wanted photos to prove we had put them in visible areas, but there was nothing to stop us taking them straight down again and not leaving them up for the 3 weeks specified. The council planning offices are so overrun with work they just don't have time to check everything
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Thats shocking actually, shipping containers are effectively a moveable structure so shouldnt need it ! Id pain them neon pink lol
 
Barton Bounty said:
Thats shocking actually, shipping containers are effectively a moveable structure so shouldnt need it ! Id pain them neon pink lol
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I had to sell mine. I’d even put removable cladding on them but was told that I wouldn’t get permission for them, so there was no point in applying. I argued the point that they were effectively on skids, but was told containers weren’t allowed under any circumstances. I replaced them with a barn on skids which was allowed with no planning required and fully intended to paint the back neon pink (the bit that faced the neighbour that complained), but he moved before I had the chance.
 
meleeka said:
I had to sell mine. I’d even put removable cladding on them but was told that I wouldn’t get permission for them, so there was no point in applying. I argued the point that they were effectively on skids, but was told containers weren’t allowed under any circumstances. I replaced them with a barn on skids which was allowed with no planning required and fully intended to paid the back neon pink (the bit that faced the neighbour that complained), but he moved before I had the chance.
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???
 
meleeka said:
I don’t understand how, just because it’s horse related, that people should be about to do what they like. Rules are rules. If they put a surface down which should have had planning, the OP’s friend has every right to complain. It wouldn’t be petty or wrong, they will have broken the Law!
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But they haven't put a surface down and it is most unlikely that anyone would start to build an artificial surfaced school with a new fence.
 
meleeka said:
I don’t understand how, just because it’s horse related, that people should be about to do what they like. Rules are rules. If they put a surface down which should have had planning, the OP’s friend has every right to complain. It wouldn’t be petty or wrong, they will have broken the Law!
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It’s a fence there’s nothing you can do about a fence .
 
If I were the neighbor I would be very careful about anything more than a friendly chat. If the land is for agriculture then it is true that they could stop a manege being put in, but I would presume that there would be nothing to stop them painting the fence orange and keeping a few pigs in there.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Neighbours can't stop an arena being put in, but planners can. If an arena is put in without consent, the planners can enforce its subsequent removal.
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However, if the neighbour has fenced a part of their field and does not put a surface down, then nothing can be done, nor should it imo
 
Goldenstar said:
It’s a fence there’s nothing you can do about a fence .
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The trouble is they start with a fenced off area, and then perhaps over two or three years add to it, take a few pictures, the planers do use Google earth to check in some areas, and then it's been there 'for ever'
I live in an area where I have heard just about every planning bend to rules, to get around them, method, and its the people who class themselves as responsible that are the worst. At least the travellers are straight forward, and it usually because some member of the family wants to move next door.
 
YorksG said:
However, if the neighbour has fenced a part of their field and does not put a surface down, then nothing can be done, nor should it imo
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Just a bit of fencing even with some sand put on top of the grass (no excavations or foundations) is no problem.

I'm with honetpot about the danger of mission creep, though. I saw it done deliberately and sometimes successfully rather too often when I was on the Parish Council.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Just a bit of fencing even with some sand put on top of the grass (no excavations or foundations) is no problem.

I'm with honetpot about the danger of mission creep, though. I saw it done deliberately and sometimes successfully rather too often when I was on the Parish Council.
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That may be the case, however the time to do something, is when the mission creep happens, not when someone has fenced a part of their grazing, to possibly ride in.
 
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