Management of arthritis

yes totally Applecart14 - Tom is getting maybe 3 doses a year at the moment - generally if he's overdone it or is having to be in for any length of time (like when he had an abscess last summer). at that level I'm happy. Once we get into the realms of needing it everyday to be comfortable then that's a different matter entirely. We had one who got to that stage in his early twenties, and we let him have a summer retired and getting bute daily, and made the decision to call it a day before the weather worsened the following winter. It's always a horrible decision to make but we still think it was the right one for him.
 
0310Star said:
Has anyone got any experience with Equine America Buteless?
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No BUT I have used Global Herbs Alphabute and it does work - although it's not as effective as veterinary Bute and I think it might actually work out more expensive. I have used Arnica and Bellis Perrenis homeopathic remedies for more acute pains too but I don't know enough to use them to manage an ongoing condition.
 
I have used No-Bute with some success on an arthritic oldie, also Devils Claw. He's not in work but shows marked improvement in movement
 
I am currently trying Mobileaze from Aviform (devils claw) she's been on the loading dose 5 days today so tomorrow I will have a gentle ride and see how she feels. So far I am not noticing an awful lot of difference, which they said I should be able to pretty quickly.

It seems the equine America Buteless actually work out cheaper, same price per bottle but lasts an extra 20 odd days as the dosage is lower. This bottle of Mobileaze runs out on Wednesday so I may true the Buteless and then if that doesn't work I will just go onto regular Bute.
 
Yes give it a go. Liquid supplements are meant to be quicker than powdered forms of supplements so you should see an improvement soon. Yes its botanical so no prohibited supplements so you can't get told off by people for using it should you still wish to compete the older horse :)
 
Yeah they said I should be able to see a difference pretty quickly with this Mobileaze and so far not a lot has happened so I will assume that means its not quite right for her. I will grab a bottle of Buteless! Thanks :)
 
Absolutely. The bute is an anti inflammatory whereas the joint supplement will help to provide mobility and soothe your horses joints. I use Equine America which contains HA (Hylauronic Acid) and this is an ingredient in synovial fluid which helps lubricate the horses jonits. MSM (methyl sulphonyl methane) is another active ingredient and contains sulphur which is known to pass through cellular tissue easily and is also known for helping bone spavin in particular. This makes is a really good all round product for my horse who suffers from spavin.
 
I hadn't thought about it to be honest until a friend said about it yesterday. She is on 99% pure glucosamine and this seems to be the only thing that works for her. The vet is coming Friday and after a long think I have decided to go with the bute rather than try various "buteless" things as I've noticed no difference at all with the devils claw.
She needs exercising to get her weight down as that will be putting pressure on her joints, and I can only do that if she is comfortable being ridden.

Thank you for all of the help applecart :)
 
Oh ad before I forget, the vet mentioned on the phone about giving her some oil in her food as this will help lubricate the joints (I think?) Which oil would you go for? I can only find varied reviews on here. But I am worried this will again make her gain weight!
 
0310Star said:
I hadn't thought about it to be honest until a friend said about it yesterday. She is on 99% pure glucosamine and this seems to be the only thing that works for her. The vet is coming Friday and after a long think I have decided to go with the bute rather than try various "buteless" things as I've noticed no difference at all with the devils claw.
She needs exercising to get her weight down as that will be putting pressure on her joints, and I can only do that if she is comfortable being ridden.

Thank you for all of the help applecart :)
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Never be afraid to offer your horse bute. My vet said years ago now that I had two choices, either retire (he said guaranteed he'd be out within weeks to put him down as his body couldn't cope without the work) or give him half a sachet of bute a day and get on with it, carrying on jumping and dressaging and everything else, the horse will soon let you know if he is uncomfortable. So glad I listened to him. Then after a few months of the horse doing brilliantly on this regime I stopped giving him bute and put him on buteless instead. Even though I was only doing the odd unaffiliated event there were those that thought it was wrong, so I put him on buteless and he's been on it ever since.

With regards to the oil, omega 3 is known for its anti inflammatory properties and this is present in oil along with Omega 6. Cod liver oil is high in Omega 3. Soya oil shouldn't be fed to horses with arthritis or laminitis.
 
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Well that's it, I had a conversation with a lady at my yard yesterday who had previously had a horse on long term bute and she said she looks at it like us taking an aspirin a day if we have aches and pains and she's right! We wouldn't just ignore it when we can take something to help.
My horse loves her work but has recently lost her sparkle so we need to now move onto bute I think and get her back to her old self.

I have been reading back through the old threads on feeding oil, and a lot of people have said they feed the supermarket vegetable/sunflower oil... but it seems people cant agree on whats best out of the 2!
 
0310Star said:
Well that's it, I had a conversation with a lady at my yard yesterday who had previously had a horse on long term bute and she said she looks at it like us taking an aspirin a day if we have aches and pains and she's right! We wouldn't just ignore it when we can take something to help.
My horse loves her work but has recently lost her sparkle so we need to now move onto bute I think and get her back to her old self.

I have been reading back through the old threads on feeding oil, and a lot of people have said they feed the supermarket vegetable/sunflower oil... but it seems people cant agree on whats best out of the 2!
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Exactly. I'm on 17 painkillers a day. If I wasn't I wouldn't be able to get out of bed or drive or work or ride or muck out or live.
 
0310Star said:
Well that's it, I had a conversation with a lady at my yard yesterday who had previously had a horse on long term bute and she said she looks at it like us taking an aspirin a day if we have aches and pains and she's right! We wouldn't just ignore it when we can take something to help.
My horse loves her work but has recently lost her sparkle so we need to now move onto bute I think and get her back to her old self.
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Just have to interject here because IMO there is a fundamental difference between people taking painkillers and giving horses bute to work...
Horses being prey animals are biologically programmed to not show pain. Therefore you might not be aware of the full extent of the discomfort experienced - totally agree with giving adequate pain relief to keep a horse comfortable but always be mindful of that when it's a *working* horse. We can decide that we're a bit stiff or niggly to go to the pilates class or jog round the block even after 2 paracetamol, but the horse gets saddled up and has to grin and bear it, and often will do because to show lameness would make him vulnerable in the wild.

Would also point out in the interests of clean sport, no one should be competing on bute, and most of the herbal replacements are also banned substances.
 
milliepops said:
Just have to interject here because IMO there is a fundamental difference between people taking painkillers and giving horses bute to work...
Horses being prey animals are biologically programmed to not show pain. Therefore you might not be aware of the full extent of the discomfort experienced - totally agree with giving adequate pain relief to keep a horse comfortable but always be mindful of that when it's a *working* horse. We can decide that we're a bit stiff or niggly to go to the pilates class or jog round the block even after 2 paracetamol, but the horse gets saddled up and has to grin and bear it, and often will do because to show lameness would make him vulnerable in the wild.

Would also point out in the interests of clean sport, no one should be competing on bute, and most of the herbal replacements are also banned substances.
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I don't compete so that's not an issue for me. I would choose my horses comfort over competing, personally.

I agree with you, but arthritis needs movement. There is a big difference between keeping your horse moving and keeping it a "working" horse. I will bute for the benefit of comfort but you have other things to take in to consideration. Like the example above, my horse is a little on the heavy side which is putting pressure on her joints, she has good grass (we don't have any bare paddocks at my yard) and she wont stay in whilst the others are out so the only way to help with that is by riding to get rid of some of the weight. With her problems, movement is key. So although she will be slowing down a bit, I think a bit of light work every day will be beneficial rather than letting her seize up.
 
0310Star said:
I agree with you, but arthritis needs movement. There is a big difference between keeping your horse moving and keeping it a "working" horse. I will bute for the benefit of comfort but you have other things to take in to consideration. Like the example above, my horse is a little on the heavy side which is putting pressure on her joints, she has good grass (we don't have any bare paddocks at my yard) and she wont stay in whilst the others are out so the only way to help with that is by riding to get rid of some of the weight. With her problems, movement is key. So although she will be slowing down a bit, I think a bit of light work every day will be beneficial rather than letting her seize up.
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agree whole heartedly, it was more a general point about there not being a direct comparison between taking 2 paracetamol and cracking on, and expecting a horse to do the same.
And I'd agree if my horse needed daily bute to be comfortable, then I'd not want to compete it either :)
 
milliepops said:
agree whole heartedly, it was more a general point about there not being a direct comparison between taking 2 paracetamol and cracking on, and expecting a horse to do the same.
And I'd agree if my horse needed daily bute to be comfortable, then I'd not want to compete it either :)
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Bute doesn't just act as a pain killer. It also acts as an anti inflammatory. Buteless works in the same way by providing support to the horses joints. My horse doesn't have to have it in order to work, as his joints have already been treated but I feel it helps him in addition to the joint supplement that he is already on. If my horse didn't want to jump he would tell me in no uncertain terms. As its only low level stuff that I do with him anyway, he loves his jumping and the vet has okayed it I don't see the problem.
 
I understand all that, thanks, but Bute and many bute replacements are absolutely on the banned substances list so for me it's absolutely clear that horses that are using them should not be in competition. We are either in favour of clean sport or we don't give a toss... the grass roots should really abide by the same rules as the top riders on something so basic IMO. what you do at home with a non-competing horse is your business but not in the show ring.
 
milliepops said:
I understand all that, thanks, but Bute and many bute replacements are absolutely on the banned substances list so for me it's absolutely clear that horses that are using them should not be in competition. We are either in favour of clean sport or we don't give a toss... the grass roots should really abide by the same rules as the top riders on something so basic IMO. what you do at home with a non-competing horse is your business but not in the show ring.
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Well I am trying to cut back on my expenses at the moment so was thinking of taking him off Buteless anyway but not sure what is the best thing to use instead. I wasn't aware Devils Claw was a 'banned substance'. I think there is something called Nature Buteless or something, maybe I might look into that.
 
When I called the company I bought the mobileaze (devils claw) and they told me it was only banned on FEI...?!
Are you talking affiliated competition??
 
many unaff shows will say the rules are as per the affiliated body, and therefore they would in theory have the same rules for doping etc as the FEI.

it's highly unlikely (!) that you'd get tested at the local hunt supporters club dressage show, for example.... but if the schedule says BD rules apply, as most unaff shows do, then by implication they would be running to the same rules for banned substances ;) Put it a different way, if it wasn't pain relief but, say, sedation for a naughty horse. Not in the spirit of the rules, is it :)

British riding clubs run by the same set of rules FWIW, explicitly referencing FEI rules in their documentation, and I expect many other groups do too.
 
You will have to excuse my dumbness but I am not at all up to date with all of this! I was under the understanding that FEI was different to BD and the rules are also different? This is also what the lady at Aviform told me?

FYI I am not intending to compete affiliated but I am just curious now we have got onto the topic lol
 
BD follow FEI rules and revert to them if they don't have a specific rule on it themselves.

IIRC boswellia/turmeric and another I can't remember are not on the FEI list.
 
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