Manege not menage

Dry Rot

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How extremely close minded Dry Rot.

Not at all. I've edited several 16th century books into modern English because the wisdom they contained was incomprehensible to the modern reader. Our language is constantly changing. No need to give up now and accept foreign words for British things when we can quite easily make a new one to suit our own purposes. Pot calling the ketle black, springs to mind!:) Of course, if your menage is in France, use the French word.
 

Casey76

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If you can't use the correct term, use an English one - call it a school, arena, whatever. No need to ignorantly use the wrong French term. A good portion of the English language has French roots, but I don't think they have arisen from the transposition of two letters.

We would generally use manège for an indoor school and carrière for an outdoor.
 

Dry Rot

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If you can't use the correct term, use an English one - call it a school, arena, whatever. No need to ignorantly use the wrong French term. A good portion of the English language has French roots, but I don't think they have arisen from the transposition of two letters.

We would generally use manège for an indoor school and carrière for an outdoor.

Who is "we" and when do "we" go back to "Olde Englische" for the sake of correctness?

So long as the meaning is clear, it really isn't that important. The important this is to communicate. Has nobody on here read teenagers' text speak? Whether we like it or not, that is probably the shape of things to come!:D
 

Abi90

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Who is "we" and when do "we" go back to "Olde Englische" for the sake of correctness?

So long as the meaning is clear, it really isn't that important. The important this is to communicate. Has nobody on here read teenagers' text speak? Whether we like it or not, that is probably the shape of things to come!:D

Completely agree. The Welsh and French languages (and probably many more) take English words that they have no equivalent to and adjust them so they more "fit" their own languages. Why can't we do the same?

There are plenty of words in English that came from other languages that have been anglicised.

Or things go the other way. We say Connoisseur which is actually archaic French and they now say Conoitteur as the verb "to know" changed to Connaître. The circumflex accent acknowledging the missing "s" that came before the "T" in old French.

If we start listing how many French words we're saying wrong we'd be here forever!
 

kez81

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Menage means household.

Manege means arena for riding horses.

If you can't manage manege, pleeeeease say arena, if only to stop the French from wetting themselves laughing at us.
blush.gif

Lol, I have been known to take a red pen and correct the spelling when viewing property brochures with a friend. The estate agent raised an eyebrow and I had to red-facedly explain that as a teacher, I just couldn't stand not to correct it.
 

Leo Walker

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This is the funniest thread I've seen in a long time. Tho I put a post on here yonks ago asking why Northerners call it a sand paddock (especially when it's not sand) and not one person knew what I was in about. I looked a right plonker. But I know they are called sand paddocks up t'North as I'm a northerner from sunny lancs, now living in wilts. No one here ever calls them sand paddocks.

I'm from the North East and have honestly never heard the term sand paddock?!

Or just call it a school !!

Its always been a school to me, or occasionally the arena, never an arena though for some reason?!
 

Pedantic

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Don't know if I can manage a menage or manage menege, or is it mangege a menage.....I normally say Menaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggge in a very posh tone, failing that I'm going in't School, which my pony views as the torture paddock, or is it paddeck, depends on how posh I pronounce it......
 

malaprop

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Dry Rot: Bonjour!!. English as we know it today does contains MANY Norman French and French words: BISCUIT, bouquet(,not Bucket) Souffle, repartee, coup,crepe etc etc.All good French words used frequently by us ENGLISH. Whereas 'Cookies' are usually those things we are told we may get whilst googling, the Americans EAT them it seems!! We normally do not,but eat Biscuits instead!! The French take us for idiots for the liberties we take with their lingo and try their best to speak as we do, politely asking. "How do you say in English"? So lets be a little more amenable and call a spade a spade and a special 'yard' for training one's horse. A Manege which it is., and a menage a domestic/household?)arrangement of whatever sort. Horses do not live or exercise in one's domestic quarters!! Both those words Manege and Menage are French as all those above I have mentioned, It is not only the French who do not like it but all of us English who know what a Menage is and have done even if we did not study Francais!!We are British and contacting each other in English I know but notice those words above ?They are used commonly by us all , is this not so? Comprenez vous ? Merci Beaucoup .
 

tallyho!

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Dry Rot: Bonjour!!. English as we know it today does contains MANY Norman French and French words: BISCUIT, bouquet(,not Bucket) Souffle, repartee, coup,crepe etc etc.All good French words used frequently by us ENGLISH. Whereas 'Cookies' are usually those things we are told we may get whilst googling, the Americans EAT them it seems!! We normally do not,but eat Biscuits instead!! The French take us for idiots for the liberties we take with their lingo and try their best to speak as we do, politely asking. "How do you say in English"? So lets be a little more amenable and call a spade a spade and a special 'yard' for training one's horse. A Manege which it is., and a menage a domestic/household?)arrangement of whatever sort. Horses do not live or exercise in one's domestic quarters!! Both those words Manege and Menage are French as all those above I have mentioned, It is not only the French who do not like it but all of us English who know what a Menage is and have done even if we did not study Francais!!We are British and contacting each other in English I know but notice those words above ?They are used commonly by us all , is this not so? Comprenez vous ? Merci Beaucoup .

Ooh I tink i eez likeeng dis post....
 

Buddy'sMum

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Lol, I have been known to take a red pen and correct the spelling when viewing property brochures with a friend. The estate agent raised an eyebrow and I had to red-facedly explain that as a teacher, I just couldn't stand not to correct it.

:D I've been known to take my red pen to restaurant menus ("pizza's" makes me go a bit Hulk).
 

mungasmum

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If the Franch are really that bothered by our mispronunciations of Franch words that have entered into the English vernacular then perhaps they should have stayed at home in 1066...!
 

criso

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I don't think it's relevant whether the word is french or how it's pronounced, there are two words (manege and menage) which mean entirely different things and some people use the wrong one - it's like affect and effect, except and accept, infer and imply, uninterested and disinterested etc

If people are worried about french words in english then use school or arena.
 

Mike007

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Don't know if I can manage a menage or manage menege, or is it mangege a menage.....I normally say Menaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggge in a very posh tone, failing that I'm going in't School, which my pony views as the torture paddock, or is it paddeck, depends on how posh I pronounce it......

You say tomato and I say tomato lets call the whole thing off.Errr, it doesnt work if you spell it correctly .
 

Dry Rot

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The French chopped off the two most useful fingers of our English archers to render them harmless. I have my two fingers and intend to display them. It's a sodding MANAGE here, so there!:D
 

Annagain

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Completely agree. The Welsh and French languages (and probably many more) take English words that they have no equivalent to and adjust them so they more "fit" their own languages. Why can't we do the same?

There are plenty of words in English that came from other languages that have been anglicised.

Or things go the other way. We say Connoisseur which is actually archaic French and they now say Conoitteur as the verb "to know" changed to Connaître. The circumflex accent acknowledging the missing "s" that came before the "T" in old French.

If we start listing how many French words we're saying wrong we'd be here forever!

This reminds me of a holiday I went on to France with some friends. I have a French degree and for a whole week they thought it was hilarious to ask me what the French words for things were at every opportunity, especially words like restaurant, baguette, croissant, au pair, chauffeur etc. I wasn't anywhere near as amused by it as they were!
 

Dry Rot

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Lol, Dryrot, if it means so much to you, I vote you keep your manage! (I am french by the way!)

Not allowed one, actually, as the ponies are purely agricultural and bred for meat and deer extraction. A manage would make them amenity.

For some unknown reasons, the idiots still try to ride them!:eek:
 

malaprop

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Criso: I do agree. It is really galling when I hear folk who are bilingual and whose first language is NOT English, from the former British Empire, and all parts of the world and in Britain, now exclaiming ,"The English/British now do not know how to write and spell their own language"!! Those of WW2 vintage including some of us were really TAUGHT our language. How to write in special ' ruled writing books', how to spell and grammar too. // If one looks at old manuscripts and Deeds one cannot but help notice that they are indeed,".Works of Art" of our Clerics of old. Those who were taught before the War, for the most part, could also write so well. I have their letters. //Now, we often find that the English written word is illegible and seems to be in a very strange script indeed as Old English once was.. I spent and entire day while in our County EDUCATION Dept. trying to explain to a younger English colleague that: Lose & Loose had TWO different meanings.. Finally, in exasperation, I told her to consult her Dictionary, perhaps the Oxford one as we were working in that TOWN with the world famous University!!// My sister was nearly SACKED while a secretary, by her English boss for bringing to his notice that his letter could NOT be understood.// I feel so ashamed especially when I repeat what historians know, that English is a gift to the world, the language of science, technology and medicine. A lingua franca as Latin once was//To have the benefit of FREE schooling as we do while millions do not and not appreciate it seems really 'difficult to understand' especially by those from countries that do NOT have this benefit.
The Gautama Buddha taught that to remain KNOWINGLY IGNORANT is a SIN and have an icon of a little clay lamp with a wick to denote WISDOM and learning. The lamp gives us the LIGHT of knowledge as IGNORANCE can cause so much chaos. Far better to stand corrected and accept one's errors than to brag about one's ignorance. i.e "Did you loose your purse," Yes, so I have no lose change now.?? My panties are sooo lose, I may loose ithem all together. NOTICE at swimming pool with a tiny bridge over the water leading to a cafe. " PLEASE DO NOT JUMP OFF OF THE BRIDGE"!! Also the following "I could OF done it" should OF, and would OF. First heard spoken and now seen so often spelled that way too on Internet. I wondered if I COULD HAVE misread it the first time but the writer repeated it more than once. "THEIR ,, THEIR! I got the gist. It's just THERE way of being Modairne!! SOOO NOT COOL to be a clever clogs who can spell these days when even Uni. dons tell us it's fine to be able to get the gist even if the spelling is weird. Gt i ?, f u dnt., hrd chs. I cn meneg t rd ths . cn u?? Better jump off of my chair and have a cuppa. WHEW!
 

Leo Walker

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What am I missing here?? I thought language was organic and changed over time almost like a living entity. No one talks in the language Shakespeare wrote in. That doesn't mean language now is inferior surely?! The Oxford English Dictionary adds new word every year to reflect the way its used. And lets not forget, while the UK is a tiny country we have distinct local dialects. Oh and also // isn't commonly accepted as punctuation ;)
 

Leo Walker

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Criso: I do agree. It is really galling when I hear folk who are bilingual and whose first language is NOT English, from the former British Empire, and all parts of the world and in Britain, now exclaiming ,"The English/British now do not know how to write and spell their own language"!! Those of WW2 vintage including some of us were really TAUGHT our language. How to write in special ' ruled writing books', how to spell and grammar too. // If one looks at old manuscripts and Deeds one cannot but help notice that they are indeed,".Works of Art" of our Clerics of old. Those who were taught before the War, for the most part, could also write so well. I have their letters. //Now, we often find that the English written word is illegible and seems to be in a very strange script indeed as Old English once was.. I spent and entire day while in our County EDUCATION Dept. trying to explain to a younger English colleague that: Lose & Loose had TWO different meanings.. Finally, in exasperation, I told her to consult her Dictionary, perhaps the Oxford one as we were working in that TOWN with the world famous University!!// My sister was nearly SACKED while a secretary, by her English boss for bringing to his notice that his letter could NOT be understood.// I feel so ashamed especially when I repeat what historians know, that English is a gift to the world, the language of science, technology and medicine. A lingua franca as Latin once was//To have the benefit of FREE schooling as we do while millions do not and not appreciate it seems really 'difficult to understand' especially by those from countries that do NOT have this benefit.
The Gautama Buddha taught that to remain KNOWINGLY IGNORANT is a SIN and have an icon of a little clay lamp with a wick to denote WISDOM and learning. The lamp gives us the LIGHT of knowledge as IGNORANCE can cause so much chaos. Far better to stand corrected and accept one's errors than to brag about one's ignorance. i.e "Did you loose your purse," Yes, so I have no lose change now.?? My panties are sooo lose, I may loose ithem all together. NOTICE at swimming pool with a tiny bridge over the water leading to a cafe. " PLEASE DO NOT JUMP OFF OF THE BRIDGE"!! Also the following "I could OF done it" should OF, and would OF. First heard spoken and now seen so often spelled that way too on Internet. I wondered if I COULD HAVE misread it the first time but the writer repeated it more than once. "THEIR ,, THEIR! I got the gist. It's just THERE way of being Modairne!! SOOO NOT COOL to be a clever clogs who can spell these days when even Uni. dons tell us it's fine to be able to get the gist even if the spelling is weird. Gt i ?, f u dnt., hrd chs. I cn meneg t rd ths . cn u?? Better jump off of my chair and have a cuppa. WHEW!

The temptation to correct your spelling and grammatical errors is nearly overwhelming, but I wont, because I'm not perfect either ;)
 

planete

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There are quite a few very clever but dyslexic people out there who are no longer put down and held in contempt for their lack of spelling skills. This tolerance is a measure of increased knowledge and consideration for others in some circles and a huge improvement on previous attitudes. There are also people for whom spelling is just not important in the great scheme of things. I am of an older generation but cannot really get worked up about how other people spell or speak. Their goodness of heart and honesty is far more important.
 

malaprop

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//= Is commonly accepted by those of us who want to save space. OK? The Bard of Avon was able to attend grammar school until his Pa ran out of funds unlike both you and I. . Prithee sire,thou understandeth not. We are privileged so we should take advantage and LEARN that our lingo does have its RULES as the French Italians etc also do. If we did not why do we attend schools??
English may evolve which I have clearly explained or so I thought but there are RULES so that our INTERNATIONAL lingo can be UNDERSTOOD. Are you trying to infer that the VERB: TO HAVE is no longer in USE???? I have,, you have, we have, they have = It is the same in French and Italian etc.The former has a verb meaning To have: J'ai tu as, il a nous avons, vous avez, ils ont. I would love to know just what you and others were taught?? Do you accept that there is a VERB called 'HAVE' in the English language which has a different meaning to 'OF' in the 21 century?? Are you also aware that many students accepted at Universities o the UK cannot either read or write their own Mother tongue accepted Internationally??They require tuition in both Maths and English so the tutors in Oxford University have found.
It is not the colloquial English used in various counties, shires, Glasgow and Edinburgh or Cockney slang, that I bring to your attention but that which is commonly used INTERNATIONALLY.and in Britain too. "Oi 'av an 'owse in Larndon. Av you? Oi will nip up the apples & pears to comb my barnet ,me old man will be back in a jiffy. . Fings aint wot they used to be wiv us round 'ere'.Them riders fink they are the cat's whiskers, take up the whole bloomin road they do?. Very entertaining too.//, A Croatian I met at Madrid airport spoke wonderfully COMPREHENSIBLE English. I asked him why he spoke so well as I sometimes could not understand my compatriots?? The Spanish Pilot in charge of our plane did not, which we both found very disconcerting. As he rattled off at 20 wps(words per second)we wondered whether he was issuing a WARNING' expecting to make a forced landing or not? A very unacceptable state of affairs//. .English is a very 'mongrel' lingo and not very phonetic either so why make it more difficult ? That Croatian wanted to know why those he worked with addressed him as 'Mate'? Had to explain as best I could but that is not what bothers me and many others too as I have tried hard to explain.//Feel free to correct any punctuation,, grammar or spelling you may find as I have past the 'Biblical three score years and ten but am learning all the time and make myself understood wherever I have had the pleasure of travelling too. //Moreover Any author or comedian worth his salt can usually be understood in PLAIN English or can 'study colloquial terms if they care to. I am NOT referring to dialects within Britain as I am well travelled and are very aware of . Just in case anyone reading this should travel to Perthshire they may hear this re: a pet " Ooh he's 'kickin' a beastie' " That's English as she is spoke beyond Hadrian's Wall. Ten out of ten if Anyone can explain? to us southerners. // The Oxford Dict. publishers are having a field day and filling up their coffers with all this 'Internet speak' Estuary English, Afro Caribbean slang now adopted by some ethnic English too. Find it very incongruous. We shall have to BUY many of their publications which is what they are after.//Meanwhile. " I will keep trying to make my compatriots respect our wonderful language, of what ever era but know that there is a VERB known as 'HAVE' and learn STANDARD ENGLISH too so they can be widely understood as they travel around the world.
After all Geoffrey Chaucer's son, Thomas is buried in our local church.// The moving finger having writ , moves on. Fare thee well and may your God be with you (Goodbye,)
 

Leo Walker

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Malprop have you maybe had more to drink than is generally advisable for posting on a public forum? I really hope so! My only other interpretation on reading that massive amount of drivel is that you have been smoking crack! A commonly used phrase in the North East where smoking crack is reasonably common among a certain section of society and is used relatively commonly when someone says something so ridiculous its could only be attributed to Class A drugs!
 
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