Mare is officially retired, down to 3 stallions, opinions?

madhector

madhector

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soon to be up north!
www.darlingdressage.co.uk
This is the mare..

201002231516301.jpg


Would be to breed an eventer, not too huge with plently of blood!

So far my shortlist is -

Jigilo
Axis
Cristobal

My worry about Jigilo is that the cross will be too irish, and not blood typey enough.

Axis looks fab, but worried he will pass on the brains and guts for eventing. Plus concerned he might be too chunky???

Cristobal again looks like a smashing event type, but not proven so who knows what his temprement is like?


So, peoples thoughts on those 3? Plus any other suggestions? Must have excellent front feet!!!
 
Just to not help at all when I was choosing a stallion for my mare my vet said as shes a cross breed you never know what genes are going to pop up, so go for a closed stud book, which for me meant tb.
Sorry....runs and hides!!
 
Mines TB x ID and didn't want anythnig too huge. Your mare is gorgeous though, much more blood than my lovely Dixie.
 
I was going to respond to you other thread, but you look like you're not totally convinced by your own list. Axis is a super dressage horse and will make the same, I'm not convinced that he is right for eventing. Jigilo is unproven but a nice horse. Cristobal is very nice, but has no competition record or any offspring on the ground.

I think you need to add what the clever money are using to your list.

Grafenstolz - except for Jumbo and Opposition, the only stallion mentioned in recent weeks who actually has two offspring in the top 1000 eventing horses in the world (actually they are in the top 600 and they are only 7, his oldest crop). There are a few on this forum who claim he has a hot temperament and that his offspring are pro rides, but they always seem to be in the anti Ken brigade. From what I've seen he's a very quiet horse, he must have been to go PSG and Inter I in less than five months. I got a link sent through the other day of a filly of Grafenstolz, she looks like an amateur ride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohQ7qAo1Qs

Mighty Magic - 89.06% thoroughbred and Vice World Champion at Le Lion last year in the six year olds, but only foals/yearlings on the ground, but with Mytens and Heraldik you surely can't go wrong. He's only available via fresh semen, but you'll get a live foal guarantee at Jamie's place it says.

Royaldik - no one has seen any offspring eventing (but that doesn't mean they aren't, just that they will be in Germany), but his jump and movement are super, and surely yo uhave to take his mother seriously (she's the full sister of Heraldik). the 700€ price compares very well. He covered Headley Brittania, Little Tiger and Penny Royal last year.

Jaguar Mail - I've already comented on another thread, but I'm told that his fresh semen is available this year and they've dropped his price to 1600€.
 
Harriet - thanks, usful info!

I discounted Jaguar Mail, purely because I dont think my mares jump is pingy enough, (plenty of score but not exceptionally neat infront, although careful enough) plus he is quite big...

I worried that Grafenstolz's feet werent perfect?? So worried about getting this right....
 
"I worried that Grafenstolz's feet werent perfect?? So worried about getting this right.... "

Another HHO faux factoid, do you see how this happens? One person makes a comment and in seconds it becomes fact. As I said on here a few weeks ago, wasn't he approved by 13 different major stud books around the world? Did they all miss these alleged feet, along with the twisted leg of course. Here's a little quiz: at the time the "international judge" made the alleged comment about Grafenstolz's comformation, which other stallion was in the ring at Burghley at the same time, who actually failed his approval because of the very same alleged defect? Answers on a postcard please.

I suggest you go to Pelion Stud and take a look for your self, I'm sure your own eye will serve you better than the axe grinding rumour mill.
 
harrietltb said:
"I worried that Grafenstolz's feet werent perfect?? So worried about getting this right.... "

Another HHO faux factoid, do you see how this happens? One person makes a comment and in seconds it becomes fact. As I said on here a few weeks ago, wasn't he approved by 13 different major stud books around the world? Did they all miss these alleged feet, along with the twisted leg of course. Here's a little quiz: at the time the "international judge" made the alleged comment about Grafenstolz's comformation, which other stallion was in the ring at Burghley at the same time, who actually failed his approval because of the very same alleged defect? Answers on a postcard please.

I suggest you go to Pelion Stud and take a look for your self, I'm sure your own eye will serve you better than the axe grinding rumour mill.
Click to expand...

Well my friend it is interesting to see that almost all your posts seem to relate to the stallions that are owned or represented by a Mr Rehill so personally I would take a bit of salt with your remarks. Also I prefer to hear positive news about a horse and not attacks on others. A good stallion speaks for himself so why go about knocking others? Please let us return to good objective advice - for instance I feel I learn a lot on a thread like this from those who have a passion for a breed like volatis and also have interesting recommendations of stallions that are new names to me
 
i wouldn't put an IDxTB on an IDxTB, no real way of knowing how chunky an offspring you might get.
i think Axis won the jumping part of his performance test, plenty of jump for eventing. Darren Chiaccia bought his stallion son Ballzeuger (renamed since) to be an eventer. Axis would have been my first choice for my girl, fwiw... but i just missed his last sending-out-chilled-date. :( :(
what about Wish Upon A Star, I saw him yesterday up at Twemlows, he's really lovely.
On my thread about a 2nd choice for my mare, Grafenstolz's current rider comments v favourably on him. He didn't look a difficult ride on the vid of the Expo either. As above, I doubt he'd have been accepted into studbooks etc if he had a conformation defect...
 
Cristobal might be young and thus be unproven but then again....is that not how all stallions start out??? And thus is it not up to those breeders who take the chance on using them and have it pay of that benefit??? After all....someone had to have used Berlin when he was unproven....not to mention Grafenstolz himself! So personally I would go with the horse that you feel best suits your mare and not one just use one because of X successes.....after all, you can breed two world champions and end up with a dud! So why not take a chance on a young and incredibly promising stallion if he suits!!!! At the end of the day, as I believe was said in an article by Twemlows recently....those breeders that used Arko several years ago when he was a youngster at a sub £500 stud fee are the ones that are laughing now!
 
I can confirm that Grafenstolz has good feet and no twist in his leg. Please, anybody who is interested come and see him for yourself, meet him personally and make up your own mind. We will give you a tour of the stud, you can see the foals and the other stallions here too. Everyone on the yard is very friendly, you can watch horses being worked, drink tea and play with the puppies. Even if you are not looking to breed at the moment we would love to meet you. There is an excellent pub 2 minutes away - what more could you want for a fun afternoon out? More interesting than watching the build up to the General Election!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX7NkhIhz5Q

Here is a piece of video of Graf at the expo. The first few frames are enough to confirm that Graf DOES have a twisted foot. Other footage supports this.

I would also say that though he responds well to his very able rider, he doesn't exactly look easy to me. It was pointed out to me by a far more knowledgeable friend than myself, that at one stage Graf appears to be stiff and uncomfortable on his off hind; its most apparent after the break in the performance. This was apparently worse at Hartpury (where my friend saw him for himself); if so, it might explain Graf's less than obliging performance on that occasion, though it doesn't say much for his human team.

Does anyone have any links to Cristobal pictures?
 
How about something from a closed stud book that is a bit different! There is an Australian Stock Horse Stallion at stud in the UK, those old enough to remember Regal Realm will know what a super eventer he was and he is not the only international eventer the breed has produced. This one has had a filly assessed at the BEF with a First Premium for Endurance and 2nd Premium for Eventing , she was out of a PBA.

As most know I like stock horses! But the Aussie version are a lot more "blood" type than the USA workers. But the same applies re the soundness, endurance, intelligence, level headedness and agility needed by a horse working stock! I met this Lad while shopping at Your Horse Live last year and his temperament is exceptional.

Just to get you thinking outside the box!!!!

http://www.australianhorsetraining.co.uk/theaustralianstockhorse.html
http://www.australianhorsetraining.co.uk/stallionsandmares.html
 
I really like Jigilo. He looks seriously quality, and has plenty of blood, so I wouldn't be too concerned about any through backs! Also Jumbo has proved time and time again to throw quality tough stock that perform.

I LOVE Wish Upon a Star, but wonder if he would be "blood" enough for you. However, I would put L to him in a heartbeat, as she is a very high % TB (isn't Jazz?)
 
Who is she by again? Stallion AIservices are worth a visit at the moment, with Wish upon a Star, Revolution, Mill Law and my own Weston Justice. The last 3 being advanced blood horses and producing good trainable event stock. For your first foal a good track record does just shorten the odds.
Of the three on your list Jigilo would be your safest bet but half bred on a half bred can be a bigger rick.
 
kerilli said:
i wouldn't put an IDxTB on an IDxTB, no real way of knowing how chunky an offspring you might get.
i think Axis won the jumping part of his performance test, plenty of jump for eventing. Darren Chiaccia bought his stallion son Ballzeuger (renamed since) to be an eventer. Axis would have been my first choice for my girl, fwiw... but i just missed his last sending-out-chilled-date. :( :(
what about Wish Upon A Star, I saw him yesterday up at Twemlows, he's really lovely.
On my thread about a 2nd choice for my mare, Grafenstolz's current rider comments v favourably on him. He didn't look a difficult ride on the vid of the Expo either. As above, I doubt he'd have been accepted into studbooks etc if he had a conformation defect...
Click to expand...

Kerilli - Graf sure looked a difficult ride at hartbury, for a horse that has a far amount of experience under his belt he was a nappy sod that day. I didnt see him at the Expo so cant comment on that outing.

Axis is definatly a jumper who happens to do dressage very well, rather than bred for out and out dressage, and from a sire line that produces internationel eventers and GP show jumpers. And Axis has twice now produced the top jumper at the Neumunster licensing - so Ken, sorry harriet, is wrong to label him a dressage horse.
 
jamesmead, there's footage of Grafenstolz here:
http://www.horseandcountry.tv/episode/uk-stallion-expo-2010-grafenstolz
foot doesn't look twisted to me.
i'll be at Belton on Sunday to watch the Stallion Parade and will pay v v close attention to his front legs and take pics/vids of them if at all possible.
i'm not in either 'camp' fwiw!
Axis won the loose jumping at his grading, he's not a 'dressage horse' at all, he's an athlete who could do any job.
 
Have seen Jigilo eventing. He was a very cool dude when I was chatting to my friend who works for Lucy W. Tied up at the lorry next to several other horses. Would not have known he was a stallion. Jigilo is a lot lighter in the flesh than you would imagine. He has a lot of presence.

What about Chilli Morning? Has lots of TB in his breeding. He is such a super horse. Everytime I have seen him he has behaved impeccably and has jump and movement and perhaps most important trainability. Not sure how far Chatsworth is from you but he is entered there.
 
Of the three stallions in the original post I'd definitely choose Axis. As Volatis has said he's an out and out jumper who happens to have been trained for dressage and happens to have made it all the way to Grand Prix. So he is one of those very rare stallions who is genuinely multitalented.

The Germans are currently going crazy about Axis' son Hirtentanz, there are so many articles about him in the St Georg magazine. Hirtentanz is an outstanding jumper and is the first Trakehner to have been approved for Holstein breeding since Abdullah's sire way back in the 40s. The Holstein verband picked the right Trakehner stallion back then as Abdullah was the olympic gold medal winner in showjumping and judging by all the excitement and buzz surrounding Hirtentanz right now they think they've found another one just as good.

Darren Chiaccia is an American Olympic eventer and he bought an Axis son (Ballzauber) to be his next event prospect. Things have gone off course since then as Darren had a horrible fall and sustained a major head injury so most of his horses have been sold but he was very impressed with Ballzauber while he had him and he really should know what to look for in an eventer!

My only problem with Axis is getting in touch with his owner! I've e-mailed her and left a message on her phone but had no reply. :( Can anyone help?
 
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