Mare suddenly won't be caught

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Stenners

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I've had my 8 year old Connie X coming up 2 years in September. She's really great in every way to ride etc but has always been slightly tricky to catch but usually walks off for a few minutes then lets you get here but most days she's just stands and lets you catch her and is fine but the last few weeks she's changed and some days I can't get within 10 feet of her and she's off galloping round the field and can take me 20 mins to catch her and my field gets narrow near the top and the only way i can catch her is to follow her up to the narrow bit to get her into the grassy areas outside my field and the first few times this work and once i got her in that bit i could catch her but now she's cottoned on and won't even come up for feed and this morning I got her in that area (i made sure i had no headcollar on me) and then once she was through I picked up the headcollar but instead of letting me get near her, she chsoe to jump a 3 ft fence of chicken wire from a standstill out into the open yard. I was mortified and so upset ;(. She has alway sbeen so respectful of fencing (she did used to jump out of her paddock a lot when i first got her) but to jump out of where all other horses are onto a concrete area really suprised me. Took me over an hour this morning and then I had to get someone to come and help me. I have a full tiem job and a 4 year old child - I really don't have the extra time for this and don't want a huge vet bill if she's deciding to jump over whatever is in front of her.

She's had back, teeth, saddle checked etc and is all fine. She's fed a topspec balancer and hifi lite as she's a very good doer in the summer. She's not a huge foody and much prefers grass to anything else but she did love Alfa A Lite so i'm going to try and put her back on that and bring her in twice a day to feed her and give her treats etc to see if that helps but i'm having to go down an hour earlier than I need to to be able to catch her.

I'm wondering if it could be a season thing but she's not a mareish mare so has never shown any signs of being in season so I'd have no idea. She's also going through a stage of refusing to load (she will go straight in with another horse) but on her own she will see the trailer turn round, lock her neck and reverse and refuse to look at it. She's not scared at all, Once you eventually get her in with sheer determination she travels fine and is super chilled. She can be incredibly stubborn. She used to stand on the ramp and plant but now will see it in the distance and she's already tried to turn round or pin you in stinging nettles etc (as I try to park it with one side where she can't run out).

I have ordered a fieldsafe headcollar and am going to fence her into a smaller area, treat her loads when i have finally caught her but other than that I am at a loss! She's fine to ride etc, I haven't noticed anything different. She's always generally argumentative for the first 10 minutes and then works really nicely.
 
Its so annoying! I think your plan to put her in a small area is good and go and catch her, make a fuss and then let her go and not ride for a day or two. But it is amazing how they can pick up on our body language even if we don't know we are sending messages! Then they "know" when we want to ride or we just want to pet.

I dare say someone else will have some extra advice.

But with the trailer thing too I wonder if there is something physical going on, so maybe worth a vet check for a problem.
 
Stenners said:
I've had my 8 year old Connie X coming up 2 years in September. She's really great in every way to ride etc but has always been slightly tricky to catch but usually walks off for a few minutes then lets you get here but most days she's just stands and lets you catch her and is fine but the last few weeks she's changed and some days I can't get within 10 feet of her and she's off galloping round the field and can take me 20 mins to catch her and my field gets narrow near the top and the only way i can catch her is to follow her up to the narrow bit to get her into the grassy areas outside my field and the first few times this work and once i got her in that bit i could catch her but now she's cottoned on and won't even come up for feed and this morning I got her in that area (i made sure i had no headcollar on me) and then once she was through I picked up the headcollar but instead of letting me get near her, she chsoe to jump a 3 ft fence of chicken wire from a standstill out into the open yard. I was mortified and so upset ;(. She has alway sbeen so respectful of fencing (she did used to jump out of her paddock a lot when i first got her) but to jump out of where all other horses are onto a concrete area really suprised me. Took me over an hour this morning and then I had to get someone to come and help me. I have a full tiem job and a 4 year old child - I really don't have the extra time for this and don't want a huge vet bill if she's deciding to jump over whatever is in front of her.

She's had back, teeth, saddle checked etc and is all fine. She's fed a topspec balancer and hifi lite as she's a very good doer in the summer. She's not a huge foody and much prefers grass to anything else but she did love Alfa A Lite so i'm going to try and put her back on that and bring her in twice a day to feed her and give her treats etc to see if that helps but i'm having to go down an hour earlier than I need to to be able to catch her.

I'm wondering if it could be a season thing but she's not a mareish mare so has never shown any signs of being in season so I'd have no idea. She's also going through a stage of refusing to load (she will go straight in with another horse) but on her own she will see the trailer turn round, lock her neck and reverse and refuse to look at it. She's not scared at all, Once you eventually get her in with sheer determination she travels fine and is super chilled. She can be incredibly stubborn. She used to stand on the ramp and plant but now will see it in the distance and she's already tried to turn round or pin you in stinging nettles etc (as I try to park it with one side where she can't run out).

I have ordered a fieldsafe headcollar and am going to fence her into a smaller area, treat her loads when i have finally caught her but other than that I am at a loss! She's fine to ride etc, I haven't noticed anything different. She's always generally argumentative for the first 10 minutes and then works really nicely.
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Can't help with the catching but my first thought was is she in season? Or a new horse in the area, doesn't have to be a stallion, is making her more tricky this season?

Re loading....I would suspect she's had a bad experience at some point and is now scared of something...could be nothing serious even just a change in tyre pressure which has made the ride more uncomfortable. Don't force her in, that just masks the problem. I'd invest in some professional help like a loading person...a horsemanship one would be my advice. They can also help with join up techniques etc which will also help with the catching.

Sounds like something may have changed in your relationship? Could explain both behaviours if she is more anxious about something x
 
The only thing is a couple of people said she could be sensing what I'm going through, i'm going through a marriage break up and a divorce and its a super stressful time and sometimes when she is naughty I have taken it out on her if i'm having a bad day, like when i did catch her once (after 20 minutes of her charging around) and she got near her field mate next door and blatantly refused to move and just reversed and refused to set foot on the yard but that was a a few weeks back.

Regarding travelling - I tow her myself and always so careful to give her a smooth ride, she's never sweaty or upset when arrive and as soon as she's in she's super chilled. No issue going in with another horse but on her own she's awful - usually worse going than coming back but can still be bad to come home. My friend did try to assist the other day and after 20 minutes of getting no where and her running rings around me, she got the lunge whip behind her and whacked her - she soon went straight in but i worry maybe she associates that with being caught now - I really have no idea. She is a sensitive soul and is always a bit like a rocket waiting to go off. Hacking for example she will walk past a tanker but will jump at a dock leaf and all 4 feet at once or spook the other side of the road at the slightest noise.

No new horses have arrived lately. Last summer she was super attached to the mare next door and i couldn't even bring her on the yard without her without her bunny hopping, spinning and screaming for her but she's so much better now and is chilled on the yard.
 
I had this problem for a long time with my mare, couldn’t get near her in the field unless she was the last one out. To which, she would have a mad tantrum because she was upset she’d been on her own and still take 30 mins to chill out enough to get near her (understandably).

It’s good you’ve got a field safe head collar. I did the same as you, kept head collar on while she was out and treats and lots of fuss when she was eventually caught. I agree with what others have said about your emotional state contributing, and sorry to hear you’re having a stressful time. It was a real challenge but I found if I was frustrated or upset she was far worse to catch. I spent a lot of time trying to take deep breaths in the field while she cantered circles around me 😂

I see you’ve mentioned lack of time being an issue, but one thing that really helped with my mare was spending time with her in the field without catching her. For example, when poo picking I would ignore her then if she approached me I’d give her a small treat and a pat and let her go on her way. Also making sure I wasn’t riding after catching her every time. E.g. I’d ride in the morning, turn her out, then when I got her in in the afternoon she would come in to her dinner and haynet, which she appreciated more than exercise!

I really sympathise with you - it’s so frustrating. My mare still has her moments now and again, but she eventually chilled out and is happy to be caught now.
 
Bluepepper said:
I had this problem for a long time with my mare, couldn’t get near her in the field unless she was the last one out. To which, she would have a mad tantrum because she was upset she’d been on her own and still take 30 mins to chill out enough to get near her (understandably).

It’s good you’ve got a field safe head collar. I did the same as you, kept head collar on while she was out and treats and lots of fuss when she was eventually caught. I agree with what others have said about your emotional state contributing, and sorry to hear you’re having a stressful time. It was a real challenge but I found if I was frustrated or upset she was far worse to catch. I spent a lot of time trying to take deep breaths in the field while she cantered circles around me 😂

I see you’ve mentioned lack of time being an issue, but one thing that really helped with my mare was spending time with her in the field without catching her. For example, when poo picking I would ignore her then if she approached me I’d give her a small treat and a pat and let her go on her way. Also making sure I wasn’t riding after catching her every time. E.g. I’d ride in the morning, turn her out, then when I got her in in the afternoon she would come in to her dinner and haynet, which she appreciated more than exercise!

I really sympathise with you - it’s so frustrating. My mare still has her moments now and again, but she eventually chilled out and is happy to be caught now.
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This is the other think I think she's realised as my field is right behind my stable so during the summer i've been feeding her in the field and tend to have only brought her in to ride, for the farrier etc as its so easy to just chuck a bucket out and go and poo pick etc where as all last year and the winter she was coming in once or sometimes twice a day for a feed/rug change and going back out again.

I do often go up to her whilst I'm poo picking and give her a fuss etc but she seems to know as soon as I have a rope or headcollar she won't come anywhere near me!
 
I'd be inclined to think it's a physical issue, particularly with the first 10 minutes of the ride being unsettled. I'd get the vet back. Or turn her away until your personal life is sorted, and you have more time and patience, if it's a physical thing, it may have resolved itself with time off anyway. Good luck, sounds like you have enough on your plate as it is.
 
rextherobber said:
I'd be inclined to think it's a physical issue, particularly with the first 10 minutes of the ride being unsettled. I'd get the vet back. Or turn her away until your personal life is sorted, and you have more time and patience, if it's a physical thing, it may have resolved itself with time off anyway. Good luck, sounds like you have enough on your plate as it is.
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Hacking etc she's fine but if asked to work in the school she's not unsettled as such, just takes 10 minutes to actually decide to listen but that's nothing new and has certainly never given me or any instructor any reason to worry. I don't really want to give her time off if i have too as she's the only thing that keeps me going most days and gives me space to chill out by going for a nice ride. Once I've caught her she's absolutely fine and really chilled out. shes never had any issues with her back, teeth etc - they all say she's asbolutely fine. Its relaly only the last 10 days but nothing significant has changed in that time.
 
Stenners said:
She's turned out on her own but has horses next to her over electric tape.
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I only ask because my mare was pretty bad to load/catch and jumped out alot on individual, there was horses next to her but she felt very insecure and unhappy, also had ulcers.
Moving to herd turnout has made so much difference, shes easy to load, catch and hack alone which was an issue previously.

do you know what her routine was like prior to you getting her? Did they say shes difficult to catch?
 
When I viewed her she was in a field on her own and couldn't see any other horses but she was with a girl selling her for someone else so she'd only been there a few weeks before i bought her.
When i got her she was in with another horse but i had trouble catching her then (took me sometimes 10 minutes) and when we tried separating them she would jump out to get in with her (even though the other horse was horrible to her). However our yard is almost 2 separate yard and in those paddocks meant you were round on a busier yard which she absolutely hated. i then move round the other side which meant she had to be in individual paddocks and she's always settled really well and never been much of an issue to catch (maybe one time out of 30 i struggled to catch her) but all of a sudden now it's like she's had some sort of major beating with a headcollar or something - or maybe she doens't like me anymore!
 
No electric gates and our electric fence is shocking - they don't feel a thing - if anything it needs to be more powerful!
 
She had a 5 stage vetting when i bought her (and she was always still took 10 minutes to stop arguing then) and passed with flying colours.
 
Stenners said:
She had a 5 stage vetting when i bought her (and she was always still took 10 minutes to stop arguing then) and passed with flying colours.
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ok, but that's like saying my car is fine as it had it's MOT 2 years ago. A vetting is only a comment about the horses health on that single day. 2 years has now passed.

And another horse in the trailer as well may change how the trailer moves/bounces less, so she's more comfortable?

Unless you are absolutely convinced that all these issues are pure and simple behavioural, I'm not sure you can rule out pain. She's trying to tell you something, so good on you for questioning presently.

A classic idea might be to put her on a bute trial so see if the behaviour goes away?
 
Tracking_up said:
ok, but that's like saying my car is fine as it had it's MOT 2 years ago. A vetting is only a comment about the horses health on that single day. 2 years has now passed.

And another horse in the trailer as well may change how the trailer moves/bounces less, so she's more comfortable?

Unless you are absolutely convinced that all these issues are pure and simple behavioural, I'm not sure you can rule out pain. She's trying to tell you something, so good on you for questioning presently.

A classic idea might be to put her on a bute trial so see if the behaviour goes away?
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Yeah what I meant was she's never been any different to school (in fact she's got much better since I've had her)
 
Often the issues are from a sort of trigger stacking - so she can override her discomfort or stress if there's another horse she loads with, it doesn't mean it's purely behavioural. You can apply this to all sorts of things, even diet - straws that break camels backs as it were.

I would do everything you can to spend as much time as possible with her, when we come to horses with our own issues and stress, and on a timetable, we have the wrong energy and some horses will be really affected by it. I would want to be really sure I'd had someone very holistic out, looked at her posture, the way she moves etc, her muscling and be 100% sure that there isn't pain/discomfort somewhere.
 
Stenners said:
instead of letting me get near her, she chsoe to jump a 3 ft fence of chicken wire from a standstill out into the open yard. I was mortified and so upset

I really don't have the extra time for this.

She's had back, teeth, saddle checked etc and is all fine.

She's also going through a stage of refusing to load (she will go straight in with another horse) but on her own she will see the trailer turn round, lock her neck and reverse and refuse to look at it.

She's not scared at all. She can be incredibly stubborn. She used to stand on the ramp and plant but now will see it in the distance and she's already tried to turn round or pin you in stinging nettles etc (as I try to park it with one side where she can't run out).

She's always generally argumentative for the first 10 minutes and then works really nicely.

Hacking etc she's fine but if asked to work in the school she's not unsettled just takes 10 minutes to actually decide to listen

she's the only thing that keeps me going most days and gives me space to chill out by going for a nice ride.

shes never had any issues with her back, teeth etc - they all say she's asbolutely fine.

Its relaly only the last 10 days but nothing significant has changed

i'm going through a marriage break up and a divorce and its a super stressful time

sometimes when she is naughty I have taken it out on her if i'm having a bad day, like when i did catch her once (after 20 minutes of her charging around) and she got near her field mate next door and blatantly refused to move and just reversed and refused to set foot on the yard but that was a a few weeks back.
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I’ve picked out a few of the bits of your posts that stand out to me. The next bit may read a bit mean but it genuinely isn’t meant to and is just meant to make you look at things from a different perspective.

Firstly, you are understandably stressed, it comes across in your post. You say you need her as your stress relief and that she is generally good to ride but takes the first 10mins to start to listen and is argumentative. You say nothing has really changed, but it clearly has *for her*. You talk about what you need but not what she needs. She has no concept of your divorce or why you turn up a bit stressed sometimes.

Look at it from her point of view. This human comes over who she used to get on pretty well with, but their energy is all stressed and all over the place. When a horse goes up to another horse to mutual groom or hang out it goes up with calm quiet energy that the horse wants to be around. Your horse may be getting a whole different feeling from you recently. Shes communicating that she doesn’t feel comfortable around you and would rather move away from you. But you don’t have time for that, you want to go for a ride to help you chill out. She isn’t allowed to express how she feels without you feeling upset, or angry, or mortified. So there is a pressure and an expectation to your approach that may be sending off all sorts of bells and whistles to her. You said one day you caught her and then took your frustration out on her, which doesn’t give her much incentive to want to be around you again. You say she takes 10mins to listen when you do ride, but she probably says you haven’t listened at all for the last half hour since you went out to catch her.

I’d highly recommend someone like Warwick Schiller to help a little with the mindset and relationship aspect. Forget about the ridden stuff for a while and work on your communication between you.

I probably sound super judgey there, and I don’t mean to, but I’ve been through the breakup stress and how it affected my relationship with my horses and honestly since I started loosely following Warwick Schiller (I’m not a groupie but there is lots to like from the last couple of years) last year the mindfulness aspect has turned my life around. Some of the podcasts have been great for my mental health. I think far more about how my horse is feeling and what they are trying to communicate rather than about what my aims were, and I’m so much happier for it. For me now, if my horse isn’t happy to be caught, there is no way it’s ready to be tacked up. If it is happy to be caught but not happy to be tacked up, there is no way it is ready to be ridden. All those things are the horse communicating something. The more we listen the better the relationship. But you’re right, it isn’t quick or easy and some people don’t have time for it because they want to ride. I’ve been happy to not ride until the horse feels good about it too.

Right now my 3yo has started to not want to be caught, so I’m stepping back and trying to work out why. What have I been doing different, how is the herd dynamic different, how if he feeling. Today I just sat in the field reading my book, popped the headcollar on and off him 3 times and then let him go and sat back down to read my book again. He spent the next 30mins with me of his own choice. I’m better now at waiting for the ear flick, blink, lip tremble reading vs waiting for the big signs. (Oh and I also never believe the ‘everything’s been checked and nothings wrong’ because my GP and osteopath and consultant all checked me over and none found anything wrong but I still had horrible symptoms, so don’t discount physical issues just because no one has found them)

Good luck and I hope you find a bit more peace soon.
 
I went up tonight, caught her first time! I could have cried! Brought her in, gave her a yummy tea and then when i poo picked i walked back up to her and she let me get near her with treats and she stayed with me for ages just having cuddles and then followed me back down the field and i walked up to her again - honestly i can't tell you how much that mean after struggling to get near her for the last 10 days. I know recently I haven't' spent anywhere near the time with her that I was and have been so stressed out lately. Defiantley going to make more time and effort to spend with her instead of rushing off everywhere.
 
Stenners said:
I went up tonight, caught her first time! I could have cried! Brought her in, gave her a yummy tea and then when i poo picked i walked back up to her and she let me get near her with treats and she stayed with me for ages just having cuddles and then followed me back down the field and i walked up to her again - honestly i can't tell you how much that mean after struggling to get near her for the last 10 days. I know recently I haven't' spent anywhere near the time with her that I was and have been so stressed out lately. Defiantley going to make more time and effort to spend with her instead of rushing off everywhere.
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Im so happy for you. I really hope you can make time to just enjoy being with her.
 
BBP said:
I’ve picked out a few of the bits of your posts that stand out to me. The next bit may read a bit mean but it genuinely isn’t meant to and is just meant to make you look at things from a different perspective.

Firstly, you are understandably stressed, it comes across in your post. You say you need her as your stress relief and that she is generally good to ride but takes the first 10mins to start to listen and is argumentative. You say nothing has really changed, but it clearly has *for her*. You talk about what you need but not what she needs. She has no concept of your divorce or why you turn up a bit stressed sometimes.

Look at it from her point of view. This human comes over who she used to get on pretty well with, but their energy is all stressed and all over the place. When a horse goes up to another horse to mutual groom or hang out it goes up with calm quiet energy that the horse wants to be around. Your horse may be getting a whole different feeling from you recently. Shes communicating that she doesn’t feel comfortable around you and would rather move away from you. But you don’t have time for that, you want to go for a ride to help you chill out. She isn’t allowed to express how she feels without you feeling upset, or angry, or mortified. So there is a pressure and an expectation to your approach that may be sending off all sorts of bells and whistles to her. You said one day you caught her and then took your frustration out on her, which doesn’t give her much incentive to want to be around you again. You say she takes 10mins to listen when you do ride, but she probably says you haven’t listened at all for the last half hour since you went out to catch her.

I’d highly recommend someone like Warwick Schiller to help a little with the mindset and relationship aspect. Forget about the ridden stuff for a while and work on your communication between you.

I probably sound super judgey there, and I don’t mean to, but I’ve been through the breakup stress and how it affected my relationship with my horses and honestly since I started loosely following Warwick Schiller (I’m not a groupie but there is lots to like from the last couple of years) last year the mindfulness aspect has turned my life around. Some of the podcasts have been great for my mental health. I think far more about how my horse is feeling and what they are trying to communicate rather than about what my aims were, and I’m so much happier for it. For me now, if my horse isn’t happy to be caught, there is no way it’s ready to be tacked up. If it is happy to be caught but not happy to be tacked up, there is no way it is ready to be ridden. All those things are the horse communicating something. The more we listen the better the relationship. But you’re right, it isn’t quick or easy and some people don’t have time for it because they want to ride. I’ve been happy to not ride until the horse feels good about it too.

Right now my 3yo has started to not want to be caught, so I’m stepping back and trying to work out why. What have I been doing different, how is the herd dynamic different, how if he feeling. Today I just sat in the field reading my book, popped the headcollar on and off him 3 times and then let him go and sat back down to read my book again. He spent the next 30mins with me of his own choice. I’m better now at waiting for the ear flick, blink, lip tremble reading vs waiting for the big signs. (Oh and I also never believe the ‘everything’s been checked and nothings wrong’ because my GP and osteopath and consultant all checked me over and none found anything wrong but I still had horrible symptoms, so don’t discount physical issues just because no one has found them)

Good luck and I hope you find a bit more peace soon.
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No offence taken at all - I totally get it and you are probably right. I went in with a whole new attitude tonight after dwelling on it all day and made such a huge fuss of her as yes I have take my frustration out on her a lot lately as then she decides to run through me or plant next to her friend and refuse to move I have told her off but now when I get near her she's getting so much praise and lots of treats.

Since you sent this you've already replied to my post that I caught her first time tonight, she was like a different horse.
 
Stenners said:
No offence taken at all - I totally get it and you are probably right. I went in with a whole new attitude tonight after dwelling on it all day and made such a huge fuss of her as yes I have take my frustration out on her a lot lately as then she decides to run through me or plant next to her friend and refuse to move I have told her off but now when I get near her she's getting so much praise and lots of treats.

Since you sent this you've already replied to my post that I caught her first time tonight, she was like a different horse.
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Yep think you and I must have cross posted there! I totally get it and have been there. You deserve some happy peaceful time with your horse so here’s so many more days like today.
 
Really glad you had a good night tonight. I think BBP has probably hit the nail on the head, particularly if people who know you and your horse in real life have been commenting that it could be your slightly stressed out energy upsetting her. I think it's very hard to recognise the extent of your stressed out state sometimes, particularly when it is caused by something that you just have to get on and deal with and stay basically functioning through. A sensitive horse is one hell of a mirror sometimes
 
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