Martin Clueless

AengusOg

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Just who is he aiming at?

Does he not realise the cruelty involved in bronc riding. The broncing horse was bad enough, but the roping horse moving backward and dragging the calf caused my 9yr old son to burst into tears and become almost inconsolable after seeing the cowboys demonstrating their manliness and prowess in the calf-roping competition. Clueless looked on grinning in admiration. It seems all it takes is a tight cinch and an egotistical rider to make a horse a star, according to him. 'Naughty horses getting rewarded', he reckons. How convenient.

Clueless, with that inane grin on his face, said to the rodeo rider that bucking horses in Britain would be sold on and lies told about them never having done that before. It goes on, I know, but he almost made it sound acceptable, FGS!

And then standing there agreeing with the trainer of the knight-carrying horse that it was trust which facilitated horses carrying fighting men into battle, blah, blah blah. It was sharp spurs, cruel bits, and the determination, greed, and killer instincts of men which caused horses to charge into battle and lose their lives in such numbers over the centuries...

...and did anyone notice the way he dumped his bulk into the saddle on that little Kazahk horse? It must have been all of 12 hh. He grinned his way through that as well.

Clueless just laughs and agrees with everything. Is he really the best person for the face of the BHS? Nice but dim, would he not be better to be less subjective and more compassionate in his approach, or should I not be watching?
 

JFTDWS

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As usual, I disagree with almost everything you've said. The Khazak ponies are bred to carry grown men and are more than capable of it. War horses were an inevitability of history and I can't share your somewhat judgemental views on it - Martin Clunes was hardly riding that horse into battle and death, was he? As for rodeo horses, well I hardly think it's his place to condemn a culture, whether or not it may upset a few individuals.

However, you have reminded me to rewatch Horsepower, I personally enjoyed it :)
 

nikicb

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Now is probably not the time to mention that my 9 year old son loves letting the calves out for team roping and always gives a big cheer to the winning team penning team when we are in Montana. :eek:

ETA I didn't watch the programme as too busy watching the Paralympics opening ceremony, so don't know how our experiences compare to the Martin (I assume Clunes) programme.
 
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Persephone

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Just who is he aiming at?

Clueless, with that inane grin on his face, said to the rodeo rider that bucking horses in Britain would be sold on and lies told about them never having done that before. It goes on, I know, but he almost made it sound acceptable, FGS!

?

Maybe he has done that? ;)
 

JFTDWS

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Now is probably not the time to mention that my 9 year old son loves letting the calves out for team roping and always gives a big cheer to the winning team penning team when we are in Montana. :eek:

ETA I didn't watch the programme as too busy watching the Paralympics opening ceremony, so don't know how our experiences compare to the Martin (I assume Clunes) programme.
:D I presumed it was in reference to the old Horsepower series since I recall all those scenes being in that. But if it's something new I accept the possibility MC has transformed from a jolly likeable ambassador for equitation into a total knob :D
 

Caol Ila

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While cruelty can be found on the rodeo circuit if you look hard enough, as with everywhere else, the broncs you see in the big, mainstream rodeos are bred to do that job, have an aptitude for it, and, like a dressage horse or eventer, they know what their job is when they enter that ring. They're not battered and beaten into bucking. The cowboys might be, but the horses get a pretty nice life.

P.S. I'm from Colorado.
 

FionaM12

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While cruelty can be found on the rodeo circuit if you look hard enough, as with everywhere else, the broncs you see in the big, mainstream rodeos are bred to do that job, have an aptitude for it, and, like a dressage horse or eventer, they know what their job is when they enter that ring. They're not battered and beaten into bucking. The cowboys might be, but the horses get a pretty nice life.

P.S. I'm from Colorado.
I was told that the strap behind the saddle causes pain and makes them buck. Is that not so? If not, what's the strap for?
 

Caol Ila

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The flank strap tells the horse it's time to work. If you look, they're wide and fleece lined and when the pickup rider takes the strap off, most of them stop bucking. It also gets them to kick their hind legs together, rather than kicking out one at a time (if you watch your horse -- or mine -- buck in a field, they often kick out with just one leg). For those huge bucks, the horse has less chance of getting injured or falling if it's kicking out evenly. They don't hurt the horse.
 
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Dry Rot

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The calf roping looks bad to those who don't know but I am sure ranchers wouldn't do it if they broke the animals' necks! I suspect farmers are much the same the world over and I don't think they'd do things that cost them dead calves and lost money. It can't be much worse than spinning a gundog on a check cord to dissuade it from chasing a hare or a rabbit and I've never seen one damaged by that.

It is sometimes very easy to shout "That's cruel!" without evidence, let alone proof. Just think of the anti-hunting argument! As has been said, it is their culture. They work hard and play hard. Good luck to them!
 

devonlass

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I think you're being a little bit dramatic OP.

It's a programme aimed at everyone,and it has to work as entertainment so a bit of inane grinning and enthusiasm is bound to be part of the deal!!

There are many disciplines and 'sports' that we won't all be comfortable with or a fan of,but that doesn't mean we necessarily have a right to condemn them on a very public stage.

I thought his programme,although a bit twee in places was actually very good and hopefully enjoyable and informative to horsey and non horsey people alike.

I will agree that bit on the small pony was a tad cringe worthy,but I am guessing it was only for a short time and that the pony was none the worse for wear afterwards.In fact I'm pretty sure it looked more uncomfortable for MC than the pony;)
 
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mandwhy

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Nonsense, I Iove the Clunes! Liked the programme, always happy to see peoples insights into the horse world. I liked that one with Jodie Kidd (or her sister?) That was interesting and would like to see it again.

If you really want an inane grin go and watch prof. Brian Cox ;-)
 

Blitzen

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Me too Dry Rot, he obviously lives a very sheltered life if a clip of a calf being roped on television makes him inconsolable! :rolleyes:
And I think Clunes was probably being a bit tongue in cheek when he was saying a bucking horse would be sold on over here.
Honestly OP, I think you (and your son) need to get a grip.
 

Emilieu

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:D I presumed it was in reference to the old Horsepower series since I recall all those scenes being in that. But if it's something new I accept the possibility MC has transformed from a jolly likeable ambassador for equitation into a total knob :D
Def Horsepower - the OP, like me, is in Scotland and they showed it on STV last night.

I watched it for the fourth time and for the fourth time enjoyed his enthusiam and obvious passion for everything horsey. He set out to explore our relationship with horses across the globe (or something like that i believe!), somehow i don't think a critique of how other cultures treat their horses would make very popular watching!
 

MerrySherryRider

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If its the programme I saw ages ago, it was excellent. Disagree completely with everything AO says. Martin Clunes is an extremely compassionate horseowner and probably does more for horses than most of us here.
 

BBP

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Rodeos I went to the bucking horses were kings. Yes, flank strap is uncomfortable, cue bucking, strap comes off, bucking stops, horse goes back out in the corral with his mates and masses of hay. Not a bad life. The cowboys had a lot of respect and perhaps even affection for the good horses. My horse would probably love a career as a bronc! I admire clunes genuine open enthusiasm for all things horsey.
 

Copperpot

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Having accidentally put a bucking strap on my horse (forgot to tighten lunge roller and slipped right back) I can say it didn't do him any harm whatsoever. He did a mean audition for a rodeo horse thou :)
 

Patterdale

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Think you're being a bit dramatic OP!

If my horse lived a life of luxury and his only bit of work was to run around trying to buck people off I'm sure he wouldn't be complaining!

And as for the calf roping......jeez I think u need to harden up a bit! How do you suggest people catch calves when needed? Spend a morning following it round with treats? Join up????

Programmes like Horsepower are great because they show more aspects of equestrianism to the general public, and generating interest is no bad thing.
 

YasandCrystal

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I don't know how anyone can fail to like Martin Clunes, he is such a mellow and thoroughly likeable chap imo :)
I bought the Horsepower series DVD and really enjoyed it. Martin's commentary is interesting and I think he shows enthusiasm, interest, compassion; the series certainly made for compelling viewing for me.
 

LJN

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Gosh OP, if a lovely programme like Horsepower has produced this sort of reaction from you and your son, you must be very limited in what you can watch TV-wise!!

I personally find Eastenders a lot more offensive than anything in the Martin Clunes show!
 

ribbons

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Ha ha ha LJN, totally agree. Eastenders is not comfortable watching for me either. Martin Clunes is a genuine horse lover who enjoys learning more.
There are always people who think anything a horse does other than stuffing it's face and being petted is cruel. Horses, like people should work and have useful lives otherwise why would they (the horses) be kept. People on the other hand seem very clever at surviving in comfort whilst being idle.
 

Magicmillbrook

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As usual, I disagree with almost everything you've said. The Khazak ponies are bred to carry grown men and are more than capable of it. War horses were an inevitability of history and I can't share your somewhat judgemental views on it - Martin Clunes was hardly riding that horse into battle and death, was he? As for rodeo horses, well I hardly think it's his place to condemn a culture, whether or not it may upset a few individuals.

However, you have reminded me to rewatch Horsepower, I personally enjoyed it :)
Agree
 

JFTDWS

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And as for the calf roping......jeez I think u need to harden up a bit! How do you suggest people catch calves when needed? Spend a morning following it round with treats? Join up????
I suspect that the OP would like to peddle his own brand of Natural Cowmanship, centred around putting the calf first and allowing it to make its own decisions as to when to be caught, while Mr Cowboy waits patiently and his business goes under.

But naturally, that's just my impression :D
 

Ibblebibble

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I suspect that the OP would like to peddle his own brand of Natural Cowmanship, centred around putting the calf first and allowing it to make its own decisions as to when to be caught, while Mr Cowboy waits patiently and his business goes under.

But naturally, that's just my impression :D
oh the OP is too late, i am a fully fledged calf whisperer and have cornered the market, here i am 'whispering' with this obviously terrified wild calf;):D
 

fburton

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Apparently the rate of obvious injury is very low in calf roping events. There might be some bruising, of course. It can't be very pleasant for the calf though, so it's probably not something one could do here for entertainment purposes without the RSPCA having kittens about it. As has been said, it's a different culture and someone who had been invited to view the event naturally wouldn't want to criticize openly, even if they were offended privately.

Also, a lot worse happens to horses than what bucking horses are forced to do. That alone doesn't make it right (or wrong); it is the culture of the people who promote these events that makes it acceptable.
 

Sukistokes2

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Having seen a rodeo I can say I was more worried about the kids doing bull riding, watching nine year old boys being bucked off bulls, one with a broken arm was eye opening! Anyhow those calves are b going to end up as meat
 

MerrySherryRider

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Rather regrettably, the word "tenderize" came to mind when I read the last post.
You're not very PC, are you ? :D:D:D

OH went to a children's rodeo when he was on business in the states. He thought it was the most incredible experience, a real family/local community event. He was blown away by the skills of some of those young riders.
 
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