Martin Clueless

[rhino]

I admire clunes genuine open enthusiasm for all things horsey.

It's certainly not put on for the camera, he is absolutely besotted with horses. He used to host a brilliant local show on his land in Dorset and was there the whole day, working harder than anyone. Held my ginger beastie for me to walk the course and was giving him cuddles, also came over at the end of the day to find us and ask how we got on

He was also the patron for a local children's charity and one year we drove him around the local town (dressed as Santa) with my bosses mini driving ponies. Think he wanted to take them home, but they were unbelieveably cute

Usual blinkered post from the OP who is unable to understand that not everyone wants to do things 'his' way.

 

[ozpoz]

Well,I'm feeling sorry for the OP!
I fully agree that rodeo is pretty dodgy, however skilled the riders may be. A bucking strap causes a panic response and I am surprised at people supporting this kind of event.
And, lets face it, any farmer treating calves in this way in the UK would not be looked on kindly by his neighbours. I have had conversations with beef farmers around here who wouldn't dream of dragging and roping their beasts around the way it is done in the US.
When someone shows me a video of a happy looking rodeo horse who is enjoying his job, then I'll change my mind.

 

[marmalade76]

The programme was not aimed at horsey people, they never are.

As for him riding the little kazakh pony, it was obvious he wasn't comfortable riding something so small, but he couldn't really say no, the people would have been offended. He wasn't on it long and it seemed to carry him fairly well.

As for cruelty in rodeo, there are cruel people and cruel practices used in all branches of equestrianism, it's just not on public view. I'd sooner a horse have the life of a rodeo bronc than the life of a TWH any day.

 

[fburton]

Well,I'm feeling sorry for the OP!

No need, I'm sure he's quite capable of defending himself!

I fully agree that rodeo is pretty dodgy, however skilled the riders may be.

Well dodgy in my view too.

A bucking strap causes a panic response and I am surprised at people supporting this kind of event.

The strap probably is a source of discomfort and (at least initially) fear and it harnesses the instinctive reaction of horses to escape anything that feels threatening. However, they may get used to it to some extent and come to learn that if they buck for a while the nasty thing will go away again. So 'panic' may not be an accurate description.

Having said that, some quite horrible things have happened to bucking horses as a result of people's insistence that they perform. The fact that the bronc riders often get hurt is irrelevant because they have a choice and horses do not.

And, lets face it, any farmer treating calves in this way in the UK would not be looked on kindly by his neighbours. I have had conversations with beef farmers around here who wouldn't dream of dragging and roping their beasts around the way it is done in the US.

Different culture. We don't go in for bullfighting (much more extreme suffering, but same principle) either.

 

[Patterdale]

Ozpoz - have you ever been to a farm!?

If not, please don't......you would not like it!!

 

[ozpoz]

Yes.
I'm surrounded by prime beef animals, for as long as I can remember...

Nobody drags their calves around as a spectator sport round here, or likes it.
But, they are only 4th generation cattle farmers, so probably just wimpy or something.

 

[Pale Rider]

I think Martin is like most people who have a cursory look at a lot of so called sports in the equestrian world, they don't see what is actually going on.
I am totally against rodeo at any level.
Cattle prods used on bronc's, and the calf roping is just sick. Broken necks and backs are common, yet the competitor carrying on tieing the feet.

If you are making tv show's for entertainment, you should be aware of the dark side.

 

[Dry Rot]

They used to have rodeos here in the UK. I doubt whether anyone here is old enough to remember the rodeos in the car park behind the Odeon cinema in Paignton. Lorry loads of unhandled Dartmoor ponies would be brought down from the moor and anyone could try to ride one for a £1 or two entry fee.

One of the best riders in the area was a certain Mary "Fishy" Place, but the organisers would always choose a quiet pony for her to ride. She was livid! Then they banned girls taking part at all! The car park, by the way, was surfaced with rammed hard core so it was not a soft landing! I seem to remember at least one was carted off to hospital! H&S would have a field day if it was repeated today. I think the RSPCA eventually stopped it.

After the rodeo, ponies would be auctioned off. You'd get a nice one for £20 and an average one for £5 - £10. They were great little ponies, ideal for playing cow boys and Indians on for us kids! No saddles and bridles made of hay string. If we'd known about calf roping, I suspect the family cat would have been in for a rough time!

 

[Patterdale]

Ozpoz - cattle are not roped like that here, as we have completely different farming and management systems which means it is usually possible to put anything you need to catch through the crush.
If this is not possible, it is common practice in the open to run a calf (or sheep, for that matter) with the quad before catching it when it tires and turning the head to force them down. Then any necessary treatments etc can be administered.

Farming is rough because the animals are rarely tame. The kindest thing is to just get the job done as quickly as possible.

Broken necks and backs are NOT common when handling stock in this way. If you farm, then you will know that you go to any lengths to keep the animals HEALTHY. They are your livelihood and your wage and no good if they are unhealthy.

Roping cattle in a rodeos is a very old competition. It was designed for ranchers to prove their farming skills, and how quickly and effectively they can perform necessary tasks. It can IN NO WAY be compared to the likes of bullfighting, as someone has done on here.

 

[AengusOg]

Well,I'm feeling sorry for the OP!

Thank you, but don't worry about me. I just love hammering the woodwork and seeing what comes out.

 

[fburton]

It can IN NO WAY be compared to the likes of bullfighting, as someone has done on here.

Of course it can. Both are for spectacle and entertainment ultimately. Neither are done for the benefit of the animals involved or with whole-hearted regard to their well-being. Both are intended to allow men (primarily) to display their physical skill and 'bravery'. Despite their obvious differences - e.g. in origins, or the fact that the death of animals is deliberate in one but only accidental in the other - they can still be compared. Just because you (or anyone) tolerates or even likes one but loathes the other doesn't mean they don't have any features in common, or that the loathed one must be excluded from discussion. It's natural to want to consider issues a black & white way, but in reality there's a continuum, a broad grey area.

That said, I certainly wouldn't consider rodeo to be anything like as bad as bull-fighting -- at least the Spanish style, for example; the non-lethal varieties are closer to rodeo -- despite both being in the category of an activity done to entertain people at the expense of animals and having little practical value. (And no, I am not a bunny-hugger or animal rights advocate.)

 

[horserugsnot4u]

I think he was probably a little uncomfortable seeing and doing some of the things BUT it was a programme about horsemanship all over the world and was very informative and entertaining. IMO, being such a nice man, he was being polite, friendly and non-judgemental - perhaps we could all learn something from that.

 

[Ibblebibble]

despite both being in the category of an activity done to entertain people at the expense of animals and having little practical value. (And no, I am not a bunny-hugger or animal rights advocate.)

pretty much all equestrian activities/sports are for the entertainment of people at the expense of the animal.

 

[L&M]

Don't 'diss' the Clunes - he is my guilty pleasure!! Yes sure he is quite a novice horseman, but has a natural empathy with them and is doing a great job bringing horses to the masses.

 

[Patterdale]

^^^^^exactly, ibblebibble.

Fburton, using your logic I could compare eventing and dog agility to bullfighting.
Not going to though.

 

[ozpoz]

I don't see what is so difficult in differentiating between these.

a) intervening in what might appear to be a harsh way for the sake of an animals health/welfare
b) asking an animal to respond when it has been trained to understand what is being asked (eventing, dog agility)
c) acting in a way that has no basics in ethics,morality or welfare but is purely an entertainment circus which causes suffering.(rodeo)

I have the equine osteo coming this morning, so I'm feeling quite conscious of what is being inflicted on necks, spines etc when I watch rodeo vids on Youtube.
Some of it would make anyone burst into tears, never mind a 9 year old

 

[Patterdale]

Ozpoz - the difference is: a) and b) are legitimate statements, while c) is purely your opinion.
Which, on an open forum such as this, you are perfectly entitled to

It is MY opinion that you are wrong, and also my opinion that any child that is inconsolable after watching a calf being caught needs a dose of reality.
My opinion.

 

[JFTDWS]

I don't see what is so difficult in differentiating between these.

a) intervening in what might appear to be a harsh way for the sake of an animals health/welfare
b) asking an animal to respond when it has been trained to understand what is being asked (eventing, dog agility)
c) acting in a way that has no basics in ethics,morality or welfare but is purely an entertainment circus which causes suffering.(rodeo)

I don't see what is so difficult in differentiating between fact and subjective opinion, since your statements above fall into the latter catergory.

I have felt sickened and upset watching videos of horrific eventing mishaps. Given that, like rodeo, these events are not the norm for an event, I fail to see the relevance of your distinction.

I fear you are allowing your own cultural bias to dictate your ethics in a rather judgemental fashion.


eta, xposts with Patterdale!

 

[s4sugar]

Ozpoz - the difference is: a) and b) are legitimate statements, while c) is purely your opinion.
Which, on an open forum such as this, you are perfectly entitled to

It is MY opinion that you are wrong, and also my opinion that any child that is inconsolable after watching a calf being caught needs a dose of reality.
My opinion.

We really need a like button!

 

[Patterdale]

Well said jftd

 

[Littlelegs]

Usually on these types of post I agree straight out with Patterdale, jftd etc. However on this I can also see fburtons pov so I'm somewhere in the middle. Op I don't agree with though if that makes sense?
As far as rodeos go, yes there are unpleasant aspects. But when alls considered, I'd prefer my two much loved 'pet' ponies to become rodeo horses over the lives of a lot of horses in the UK. And I don't mean cruelty cases. I mean some kids ponies who spend their life being kicked & pulled, or lots of rs horses who live with the same. Or overhorsed idiots who strap down their horses head. Or to spending life shut in a box, with the odd few minutes on an individual stamp of turnout. All of which the UK horseworld condones. And I really don't think that with this countries preference for factory farming, we are in a position to condemn the practices of their meat industry, which calf roping is part of. As for Martin clunes on the pony, yes, not ideal. But better than some too heavy numpty smashing up & down which we regularly see everywhere in the UK.

 

[mcnaughty]

Completely disagree with OP on this one - he is a fantastic ambassador for the sport. He has NEVER said he is an experienced rider, in fact he is always putting his own riding skills down. Quite frankly, we need people like this to bring our sport into the living room of the general public. The Olympics has helped but the recent comments by a top show jumper putting his fellow equestrians down does not help. Martin does!

 

[Littlelegs]

Forgot to add, crying at calf roping is ott. My 7yr old is pretty soft. She cries about dead wildlife at the side of the road, & took days to recover from watching black beauty at a friends. And I had to construct a bs story about merrylegs having a perfect life. But, she does understand reality, & watched the calf roping with interest, not tears. Perhaps ops child believes meat only comes from animals who have peacefully died of old age in a meadow. And I too disagree with ozpoz.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I have to laugh about comparing cattlemen over here to the open range of 1000's of acres back home. No cattle crushes out there and bringing tons of petrol along with you to keep the quad going isn't an option. If your a rancher back home you ride. If your a cattle farmer here you may or may not know one end of a horse from another, or you may have horses and raise them just like cattle(it's ok cos you send them off to be handled at 4 and then get to complain about money and length of time to get humanised), or you go hunting. But oh my, the Cowboys are horrible.

Those bucking horses are quite expensive and purposely bred. And quite a few have better lives than sitting in a muddy field all day getting fed for love and all the problems that come with it.

We all live in glass houses you know, me included.

OP, hope your whole family are strict vegans.

Terri

 

[Patterdale]

V true Terri - totally different systems

 

[Pedantic]

Well I thought he was brill singing I'm a ****** in Men behaving badly, and I thought he was brill in Doc Martin, and I think he is brill as a novicey horsey person giveing us all a glimpse of how horses are used in other countries, whether "other" cultures mistreat their animals isn't really his fault.

 

[smokey]

I have to laugh about comparing cattlemen over here to the open range of 1000's of acres back home. No cattle crushes out there and bringing tons of petrol along with you to keep the quad going isn't an option. If your a rancher back home you ride. If your a cattle farmer here you may or may not know one end of a horse from another, or you may have horses and raise them just like cattle(it's ok cos you send them off to be handled at 4 and then get to complain about money and length of time to get humanised), or you go hunting. But oh my, the Cowboys are horrible.

Those bucking horses are quite expensive and purposely bred. And quite a few have better lives than sitting in a muddy field all day getting fed for love and all the problems that come with it.

We all live in glass houses you know, me included.

OP, hope your whole family are strict vegans.

Terri

I like this post, very much. Well said!

 

[Moon]

Absolutely love Martin Clunes, i dont think it would make for good watching if he ranted at everyone for being 'cruel' to their horses. He was genuinely interested, as were most viewers, in the different ways horses are used in different cultures. He loves his horses and his enthusiasm and love for them shows in.his actions.

 

[Pale Rider]

Equilibrium Ireland, is right, ranching in the US is not comparable with beef farming in the UK.

Rodeo isn't ranching though, and is equally far removed.

 

[attheponies]

I like him and think the programme was great. From what I remember he wasn't too happy about riding the small horse in Mongolia (I think it was there) but sat on for a short time out of courtesy to his hosts.