meat man

[Slightly Foxed]

Just Googled Potters and got this:

"With over 50 years experience, we offer a caring, calm, effective service at our Taunton abattoir. We pay for the animal, and by dealing direct you can be sure that the job has been done well. We also offer a nationwide collection service, providing a discrete disposal method for equines direct from your stables.

LJ Potter (SW)Ltd is an ILPH Approved Abattoir operator

Please call, fax or email for further information."

email friend Tel: 01761 221730 stephen@pottersabattoir.co.uk

 

[Elliegazzellie]

One of the horses had to be put down a few years back and I have never seen all the horses soo worked up.... they all looked genuinly upset and terrified even the calmest of horses. I just don't think it's right to do it so close to the live horses.

Same here. It was very suprising how they all acted.
When our old mare fell down a ditch and got stuck out of sight the only reason we realised was because the other ponies in the field raised our attention by galloping up and down the field neighing to and from where the mare was stuck. One of the big cobs was also in the ditch with the mare and was trying to push her to get her to stand up. It was really quite an extrodinary thing to see how the herd all worked together. When we got to the mare and untangled her we were pushing her to try and get her to stand up again and all the 10 horses were stood along side the ditch watching and wickering.Luckily we finally got her to stand up, but if it wasn't for the horses raising the alarm she would have been there much longer.
Sometime horses are cleverer than they are given credit for.

 

[nativetyponies]

Sorry Nativeponies just saw your reply. My worry would be horses standing around waiting to die and seeing other horses die in front of them.
I imagine horses pennd up waiting for hours and getting distressed.
I cant agree that horses dont sense death as I have seen a pony react to the death of his field mate.
Im not for or against this method of pts as ive never seen it but I hate the thought of animals lined up waiting to die.

this is how it is....

imagine a large farmyard..huge dutch barn on one side and a large enclosed barn on the other...horses in dutch barn in "lairage" are the ones that are bought by Abattoir operater..all are under cover, all are eating hay..

members of the public bring theirs into yard by lorry/trailer. these are processed first..they are unloaded, passports are checked in by ministry, stamped as "fit for slaughter"..horse is taken inside enclosed barn..one at a time..barn door is shut..gone on the B of Bang..headcollar is returned to owner..they drive away..next in line goes through the same process until all of Joe Publics horses have been dealt with..hours for this are 8.30am - 1.30pm on a wednesday only.

then those in lairaige, who have been eating hay all morning, are processed..one at a time..not one see's the demise of its predecessor..

as for the process inside the closed barn..do you want me to tell you how that works as well?

 

[MosMum]

Again, having not been to one of these places I can't comment on good practice, however...

I think its fantastic that human beings are capable of theory of mind and empathy, and that our lives in the Western World have been incredibly protected, nurturing and endorsing of life in most cases.

However lets not forget that death is natural, and how that occurs is the only real question here. If these horses were wild, and got injured or sick, or was old or young, in Montana a pack of wolves would chase them, panic them, attack from the croup/legs, drag them down, exhaust them and then finally get a death grip on the neck and suffocate them. Usually the animal would still be alive when it is disemboweled. Sometimes, coyotes and bears will risk a convenient attack, too.

Nature isn't kind. Sometimes, humans can be even less kind, and I'm not for a minute saying cruelty doesn't happen at slaughter houses. If teachers being hired to educate our children manage to slip through the net and be predators, doubtlessly there have been instances of sick people working at slaughter houses, too. And doubtlessly there are many more who OWN the horses who end up in slaughter horses. Over all, a bullet is a kinder death than is faced by many, many animals, including horses, world wide. In many countries, a bullet is considered too expensive to waste on a horse.

 

[AmyMay]

One of the horses had to be put down a few years back and I have never seen all the horses soo worked up.... they all looked genuinly upset and terrified even the calmest of horses. I just don't think it's right to do it so close to the live horses.

Well, that's most unusual.

The horses at my yard didn't bat an eye lid when my horse was put down recently.

But as you know, it only takes one horse to wind the others up - event the calmest.

 

[Fairynuff]

re the 'lethal injection'...those of you who claim to have witnessed prolonged and agonising deaths obviously have vets who are not carrying out the euthanisation properly. All horses in Italy are euthanised via injection unless they are entering the meat chain. Vets here are legally required to 1, sedate the horse. 2, anaesthetize the horse and 3, only when horse is FULLY unconcious, administer the 'lethal injection'. All those euthanised here on my yard and in the 2 clinics Ive worked in, were mainlined so had only 1 needle inserted and ALL died peacefully and quickly. The product used for the actual 'killing' is called 'Tanax' and is composed of 3 different 'drugs'. One acts as a narcotic and causes paralysis to the respiratory centre, the second one acts on the muscles involved with breathing (paralysing them) and the third is a local anaesthetic which, in horses makes no diff as they are already unconscious, but seemingly is important in small animals as there is no duty to anaesthetize them before using Tanax (I have no idea why and find it incongruous!). Maybe its about time that GB vets changed their methods of LJ euthanising if all these horses are having such horrific deaths at their hands.

 

[Elliegazzellie]

Hence the word often... not all

if your dog broke a leg was in extreme pain, you had taken him to the vet and he had to be put down there and then you would take him home because he`s happy there??? You`d put him through pain for longer just to keep him happy?...thats unfair.


Nobody seems to have a problem with slaughtering cows, sheep...cute lambs...thats "natural" but god forbid slaughter a horse that could potentially kill!

Well obviously not because thats silly, but what we're talking about is a perfectly healthy animal that is being killed due to behavioural issues and therefore not an emergency case such as a broken leg.

I don't like the idea of any healthy animal being slaughtered which is why I chose to be a veggie and have been for 16 years. I'd rather not go into that though cause it'll only spark up a silly animal activist arguement.

 

[AmyMay]

I'd rather not go into that though cause it'll only spark up a silly animal activist arguement

I'd say there were some pretty strong and defendable reasons to be a vegetarian, actually.

But it's an interesting idea, that no healthy animal should be put down - or pet.

How then, hypothetically, would you propose that the owner of a dangerous horse proceed? Assuming that they have all the necessary skills themselves to try and rehabilitate that animal - and have tried to do so.

 

[spaniel]

A plea to those fluffies and non fluffies who have no ACTUAL experience of places like Potters......READ NATIVEPONIES POSTS and if you want to ask a question ASK!!!


It is highly frustrating that there are so many hysterical pre concieved ideas about what happens at Potters and Turners and you have the perfect opportunity not only to educate yourselves but potentially put your minds at rest because, dispite what you think at the moment, you may well find you need to use their services in the future.

 

[Sandstone1]

this is how it is....

imagine a large farmyard..huge dutch barn on one side and a large enclosed barn on the other...horses in dutch barn in "lairage" are the ones that are bought by Abattoir operater..all are under cover, all are eating hay..

members of the public bring theirs into yard by lorry/trailer. these are processed first..they are unloaded, passports are checked in by ministry, stamped as "fit for slaughter"..horse is taken inside enclosed barn..one at a time..barn door is shut..gone on the B of Bang..headcollar is returned to owner..they drive away..next in line goes through the same process until all of Joe Publics horses have been dealt with..hours for this are 8.30am - 1.30pm on a wednesday only.

then those in lairaige, who have been eating hay all morning, are processed..one at a time..not one see's the demise of its predecessor..

as for the process inside the closed barn..do you want me to tell you how that works as well?

Thank you for your reply.
I wrote a long reply but somehow lost it but Im glad the other horses dont see the one being shot. Im aware of the process in shooting a horse thanks, just hope its done quickly.
I have had a bad experience of the injection method and was very upset by it but it was the vet that messed that up.
I hope none of mine ever up up in a slaughterhouse but I know there is a need for such places but would like to see cctv in all of them.
Horses do understand death and are upset by it i have seen it for myself so wont be told otherwise. Unless the over breeding of horses and ponies stops placs like will be busy.

 

[turkana]

I'm surprised to see replies from people who've seen horses getting upset when a horse has been put down near by.
My mare was put down in May, she was down in the stable, we tried to get her up but she wasn't budging, we didn't want to distress her anymore than necessary so she was shot in the barn & then dragged out in front of several other horses.
MY OH was with her at the end & she was shot by the man from the Grafton hunt, according to my OH the other horses took no notice. I can only assume it was because neither man was upset by their rather nasty task & dealt with the matter quickly & calmly.
The horse opposite her stable was only a few feet away from the action, he was in an open fronted pen so could see everything, he's a very nervous & wimpy tb & he wasn't bothered at all.
The lorry that the came to take her way already had 2 dead horses in it, it was obviously parked up close & again no horses were upset by being being so near to dead bodies.

 

[spaniel]

Animals do NOT have the same emotional reaction as humans do to death and in our own past history the idea of dying was not viewed by us in the same way as most see it now. Death is just a part of life to an animal and what tends to make horses (and others) distressed is the 'disappearance' of a herd or pack member. Its proven and I have also seen this myself that animals are much more settled with a 'loss' if they can see the body of the animal that has died. If there is hysteria amongst them it does tend to emanate from the human body language and reaction.

 

[Pipkin]

Well obviously not because thats silly, but what we're talking about is a perfectly healthy animal that is being killed due to behavioural issues and therefore not an emergency case such as a broken leg.

I don't like the idea of any healthy animal being slaughtered which is why I chose to be a veggie and have been for 16 years. I'd rather not go into that though cause it'll only spark up a silly animal activist arguement.

Yes but the healthy horse is a danger its kill or be killed...if he was sent to the hunt to be pts then he`d suffer the same thing..he`d be shot and fed to the dogs... abattoir..shot and fed to dogs...

 

[TicTac]

PS Last year I had my lovely (well quite bitchy but only to ppl who she didn't like!) big young mare put down - She wouldn't die - the vet said she had never seen anything like it and usually had to use a max of 2 bottles (of pentobarb or wateva it was) and that was for natives - she was a tb x wb and took 3 full bottles and around 20 mins of gasping and trying to get up, cutting her head open and it was an awful experience. not great considering she didnt like vets and needles and was even sedated i/m before we began. - Not always the best way to go but you only generally find these things out wen u have experienced them yourself.

And now you have another ' difficult ' horse to get rid of?

 

[TicTac]

So, Tic Tac, what is the alternative that you would like to put forward? Are you making a case that there should be no abbatoires for horses?

Don't be silly and don't take my view out of context.

 

[Over2You]

And now you have another ' difficult ' horse to get rid of?

Yep. DON'T understand it - KILL it. MUST be dangerous - KILL it. MIGHT have a brain tumour - KILL it.

What kind of a world is it when we don't give a second thought to getting rid of a sentient being as if it were a carton of milk past its best before date.

 

[vixann]

And now you have another ' difficult ' horse to get rid of?

I never said she was difficult!! she was a bitch to ppl she didnt like - ppl who were nervous around her but all in all she was a fab horse - she was pts due to 1. a fractured sesamoid bine which would never heal and never be cured by surgery so she was put in field to rest for 18 month to see what happened and then 2. a few months later she went through the fence and ripped all the skin and muscle from her hind leg - dont try and make out i dont know what I am doing!!! - and dont judge.

 

[vixann]

Yep. DON'T understand it - KILL it. MUST be dangerous - KILL it. MIGHT have a brain tumour - KILL it.

What kind of a world is it when we don't give a second thought to getting rid of a sentient being as if it were a carton of milk past its best before date.

err read below - Yes I will kill the pony unless you want it?? Good luck getting anywhere near it to be able to safely lead him without him striking you with front legs, biting you or turning kick you. I know.... ill carry on with him and accidently let him go?? maybe he will run off and injure someone in his way? maybe sum1 will catch him for me and he will attack them too?? oh think of all the glorious possibilities

 

[Bertthefrog]

"As we walked through the holding pen, a gunshot went off. Two young thoroughbreds jumped and began biting each other's necks, which were covered in red welts"

Can I suggest that you take the time to read the link .... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/oct/01/horseracing.sport

People who say "I can't afford to have the horse pts" quite simply shouldn't have a horse if you arn't able to meet the needs of it. We all know a time will come when they will need to be pts or they die and should be prepared financially and mentally. When your family members get old, your dogs and cats, your husband/wife will you send them to like a concentration camp?? Queing to die which is what these horses do! I'm not saying it's wrong to put horses down if that's the last route but after reading the above link It makes me feel sick that people are naive enough to think that horses cannot sense death and danger especially when it happens so close to the live horses If they are going to do it can't one horse be taken at a time to a seperate shooting area far away from the live animals ? No because this is to much hassle for them as they are going to die anyway

Of course horses "sense death" - they are prey animals - they get eaten in the wild - therefore anything "new" is viewed as a potential "death" threat and hence they flee from it.

Rustling leaf - eek, run away.
The umbrella brandished by an OAP - eek, run away.
The triangular drain cover - eek, run way.
The traffic cone marking roadworks - eek, run away.
The dark, scary corner in the indoor school - eek, run away.
(Spies human the size of a small house heading their way with tack) - eek, run away.....

All survival instincts.

At Turners - holding pens in building as you walk in house horses waiting to dry off before they can be put down. The horses, individually are taken through to the next, enclosed area, to be shot. The horses in the pens do not bat an eyelid at the gunshots, they are perfectly content. I have not seen "terrified horses aware they are about to die" - and the ones I have taken have walked in quite happily.

Horses are not capable of thinking - "Hang on a minute - two legged horse upset, have read notice on wall, have a feeling my death is impending. Bugger - had better warn the others." - they don't think like that...... Grr.

They may be nervous of new people, smells ( and no - the abbattoirs DO NOT smell of blood - they are immaculate), places or pick up on vibes from an anxious or upset owner - but no worse that they would do if they were arriving at a new yard, or first time competition.

.....And relax......

 

[Jim Moriarty]

Why is it so difficult for so many on this forum to read, understand, appreciate, accept, and comply with the simple request of an OP;

This wont be a popular post and I don't want peoples opinions please if you are going to say the usual rubbish

... and yet the same old same old is regurgitated once more...

 

[flyingfeet]

Yep. DON'T understand it - KILL it. MUST be dangerous - KILL it. MIGHT have a brain tumour - KILL it.

What kind of a world is it when we don't give a second thought to getting rid of a sentient being as if it were a carton of milk past its best before date.

Having had my sister squashed by a horse with a suspected brain tumour / aneurysm DO NOT JOKE. This put her in a wheel chair for a while and may have impacted her fertility.

We had a healthy 5 year old put down as she went through fences and had no self preservation when going through fits

We could have sold her for thousands if we lied, or sold as a broodmare to breed more nutters / or become dangerous to handle

If you cannot handle the decision of when to KILL a horse, don't own one please.

 

[Ted's mum]

Having had my sister squashed by a horse with a suspected brain tumour / aneurysm DO NOT JOKE. This put her in a wheel chair for a while and may have impacted her fertility.

We had a healthy 5 year old put down as she went through fences and had no self preservation when going through fits

We could have sold her for thousands if we lied, or sold as a broodmare to breed more nutters / or become dangerous to handle

If you cannot handle the decision of when to KILL a horse, don't own one please.

well said!

 

[Over2You]

There are far worse ways for horses to die than going to an abbatoir...take Spindles Farm for example... starve to death or get shot and die instantly??? which one is more humane?

OP well done for doing this and potentially saving someones life!

If a dog attacked and killed someone we have no qualms bout killing the dog

1. What - being left lying on the ground, unable to get up, and in agony. Until about twenty minutes later, someone (who had been watching the entire time) eventually comes along and ends the misery. How often does this sort of thing happen? If it's happened once, then who is to say it isn't a regular occurrence?

2. Emphasis on potentially. All these ifs and mights. Never giving chances to animals to improve their behaviour. It's no wonder they become 'dangerous' in the first place. All those negative vibes going about. You can actually instigate aggressive behaviours with your energy. What's happened to calm assertiveness.

3. I would have a qualm about it. There's usually a good reason for a dog to bite/attack. For reasons stated in #2 and that most people haven't a clue how to read a dog's body language. As always the animal pays the ultimate price.

 

[Over2You]

its a fact....

i've been to Potters..inside where they take the pony from you, where they process, the refridgeration unit..actually inside..

so yes, AA propaganda.

You are a horse hating member who takes great pleasure in killing them. Clearly you are employed there with all your 'inside' info. What the hell are you doing here??

 

[vixann]

2. Emphasis on potentially. All these ifs and mights. Never giving chances to animals to improve their behaviour. It's no wonder they become 'dangerous' in the first place. All those negative vibes going about. You can actually instigate aggressive behaviours with your energy. What's happened to calm assertiveness.


and you know exactly how long i have had him and long i have spent with him and how many chances i have given him don't you??? ....... oh no sorry - you don't lol

 

[vixann]

You are a horse hating member who takes great pleasure in killing them. Clearly you are employed there with all your 'inside' info. What the hell are you doing here??

oh i see - you are THAT kind of horse owner!!! TBH dont even know why you opened thos thread to start with!!!

 

[spaniel]

1. What - being left lying on the ground, unable to get up, and in agony. Until about twenty minutes later, someone (who had been watching the entire time) eventually comes along and ends the misery. How often does this sort of thing happen? If it's happened once, then who is to say it isn't a regular occurrence?

.

If you can PROVE this - and not using a highly suspect right wing animal rights organisation then you need to take up your point with DEFRA.

This situation (if Ive not missed something) has already been explained to you and is NOT (if it is the case) the fault of the slaughterhouse.

More hysterical drivel, I thought maybe this thread had moved on from that.

May I make a suggestion.....grow a pair and phone Turners or Potters and make arrangements to actually go and have a proper visit, see how they work and THEN form an opinion.

 

[spaniel]

You are a horse hating member who takes great pleasure in killing them. Clearly you are employed there with all your 'inside' info. What the hell are you doing here??

Im sure nativeponies will be delighted to hear that she has another job!!

More hysterical rubbish.

 

[Kenzo]

Yep. DON'T understand it - KILL it. MUST be dangerous - KILL it. MIGHT have a brain tumour - KILL it.

What kind of a world is it when we don't give a second thought to getting rid of a sentient being as if it were a carton of milk past its best before date.

Well I don't know about you, but I for one wouldn't want to live in the kind of world where sale rings, equine re-homing websites (need I say more ) are bursting at the seams full of dangerous/unwanted/half starved un treated un sound horses, ones that are being passed about dealing yards, sold on as 'companions' or passed onto registered horse charities (that have enough to deal with) because we don't like the thought of them being killed?

Are you going to ensure this sort animal has a home for life?

 

[chestnut cob]

You are a horse hating member who takes great pleasure in killing them. Clearly you are employed there with all your 'inside' info. What the hell are you doing here??

Tell me this post is meant to be tongue in cheek??