meat man

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Fine, so why did everyone get so irate about giving it away as a companion when they dont even know if it's that dangerous to handle or not!
Why not just say, we dont know how dangerous it actually is so we cant comment on that.
 
sharon1959 said:
Thanks.

Couldnt you offer it as a companion,so it will have another chance in life????? If I had my own land Id take him off your hands.
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Sharon, let me put a scenario to you: You say you are a mother, well so am I and this is why I feel so strongly that OP is doing the right thing.

You take on a horse that you know has problems, you send it to a specialist to cure the problems and break it for you, all is going well until suddenly, without warning, it attacks the person (very experienced) lunging it and takes, literally, a huge chunk of her arm off. You then ignore all the advice of the vets and trainer to PTS and send to another, well thought of and very experienced, trainer. Again all is going well until one day it launches an attack without warning and tries to kill said trainer, again literally, stamping all over him, he is rescued and hospitalised with horrendous injuries. Still you ignore the advice given and move it to your own yard which is shared with another YO, you decide to put this horse in a stable next to the other guys teenage (13) liveries little mare, they leave the yard, eventually his business folds because no-one wants to be near this dangerous horse. Suppose you were on this yard with your child, would you risk that one day this horse may attack and kill, or at least maim, your child. This horse was dangerous on the ground, what makes you think you know better that the owner making the decision. At what point does someone have the guts to make the right decision. Or, do you do what the owner did, try to sell it to a dealer to go to auction without mentioning it's problems, to be bought by someone like me for their own daughter. OP is being responsible FGS, at least she isn't just passing it on to someone else!

And, to those who think OP shouldn't have posted, it is a fact of life and something that we should be able to discuss without getting sentimental. Sometimes PTS, whatever means, IS the best for the horse.
 
kharber21 said:
Hi, im not going to say anything against the post as everyone has different opions on it.
Is the horse that bad that you dont want to sell it to one of the dealers that advertises for horses with behavioural problems or sell it as a retired horse as a companion only?
You would get more for it and it would have another chance.
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Another chance to hurt somebody???

I must say admit im one of those persons totally against PTS a pony by any other methods than the vet. I could never send any of mine to the hunt or abbortoir. Thats just me. I do understand not everyone feels the same and i respect that. Im surprised actually how little money you can get for ponies now at the meat man. I must commend the OP for considering PTS the pony if its dangerous, like kharber said you would get more money by selling it, but the OP obviously is concerned that no one else gets hurt by this pony. Not many would do that, they would sell on, make a fast buck and not give a ***** about what happened to anyone else.

Like is said id have the have it PTS by the vet, yes costing me money. but at least the OP is doing the most considerate thing and making sure noone else is hurt.
 
kharber21 said:
Fine, so why did everyone get so irate about giving it away as a companion when they dont even know if it's that dangerous to handle or not!
Why not just say, we dont know how dangerous it actually is so we cant comment on that.
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Why can't we have a 'big sigh' smiley on here as this seems to have been said plenty of times before?

Because there would be a real chance that the horse could/would be passed on without information necessarily known about it which could cause an accident to happen. It's human nature to try to see if something is broken or not. If they tried it with this horse, that broken bit could be their neck. Would you sleep at night knowing that was a possibility. Better gone now before that happens.
That's why you don't pass on dangerous horses to anyone.
 
Fine, so why did everyone get so irate about giving it away as a companion when they dont even know if it's that dangerous to handle or not!
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The OP has said it is dangerous. Why would we question their judgement?

And as I posted earlier - tried all summer with my horse. The homes just aren't there.

Putting a horse down is not a bad thing.

I wish those of you wearing rose tinted glasses would understand that.
 
The way i see it ; if a horse is a danger to itself and others....it should be 'disposed' of, if it can be helped...help it!!

There are far worse ways for horses to die than going to an abbatoir...take Spindles Farm for example... starve to death or get shot and die instantly??? which one is more humane? :rolleyes:

I`ve got nothing against abattoirs....at the end of the day meat is meat, I dont how ever condone the amount of TB`s that go there just because they dont win a race :rolleyes: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/oct/01/horseracing.sport

OP well done for doing this and potentially saving someones life!

If a dog attacked and killed someone we have no qualms bout killing the dog :rolleyes:
 
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amymay said:
The OP has said it is dangerous. Why would we question their judgement?

And as I posted earlier - tried all summer with my horse. The homes just aren't there.

Putting a horse down is not a bad thing.

I wish those of you wearing rose tinted glasses would understand that.
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Agree, and I had to do the same many years ago with a horse who I couldn't re home for various reasons BUT. I had him PTS at home and then taken away. Not in it for the money and from the video's I have seen of ' Potters', that is the last place I would consider sending my horse for it's final hours!
 
I believe places like Potters have their place and i have no problem with what they do.

I strongly believe dangerous horses should be PTS - the method of which should be entirely up to the owner and is noones business how they choose to do it....

If the horse was dangerous. if it wasnt and a companion home couldnt be found, that would make me very sad.
 
Horse needs destroying, if the owner gets a little bit in the back pocket what's the problem? to be fair it's peanuts anyway, considering how much it's costs to keep a horse in good care, why shouldn't the owner get a bit back for the inconvenience?

For example If I'd ploughed my heart, my soul and a hell of a lot of money into a horse only to find out I'd run out of options, that it was still a dangerous animal both at risk to it's self and the people around it, I doubt very much I'd want to go to the whole expense of getting the vet out have it put to sleep, having it cremated and then just to top it off, having it's god dam ashes sent back (to haunt me and remind me what a pain the backside it was) in an expensive wooden box for my mantel piece, put it that wa!!! (those of you that understand my humour will get where I'm coming from there) believe me I'm no heartless cow.

Another example seen as I'm on my little soapbox after reading this, I’d rather see a lorry full of ex racers go to a fattening farm and then go off to be slaughtered in this country than see them sent round the sales being passed around from pillar to post and sold to either the wrong people or ruff ass dealers selling them on as riding horses, when in some cases there clearly not going to make the grade or have the time and the vast amounts of money put into them, the places some of these creatures end up and the states they get in, in my view is a far worse ordeal.

So to judge a responsible person for taking a dangerous horse to a slaughter house to be destroyed correctly yet making out that all their thinking about is the money, well it’s the most ridicules thing I've heard.

If someone came up to me and said that after all I’d gone through, I’d be speechless, talk about a huge slap across the face.

all about the money? if only it was.
 
Tic Tac - I watched the video of a wee grey pony at Potters - other than the annoying text of "Some childs loved pony etc etc " the video wasn't offensive at all

Pony handled well, clean kill and much better than watching my liveries horse in real life get up and down from the lethal injection. Lurching and shuddering, plus horse not very impressed at massive injection as last human contact either...

This video made me feel happier at sending my horse off, as the handlers were so good and could not be faulted.
 
Jen_Cots said:
Tic Tac - I watched the video of a wee grey pony at Potters - other than the annoying text of "Some childs loved pony etc etc " the video wasn't offensive at all

Pony handled well, clean kill and much better than watching my liveries horse in real life get up and down from the lethal injection. Lurching and shuddering, plus horse not very impressed at massive injection as last human contact either...

This video made me feel happier at sending my horse off, as the handlers were so good and could not be faulted.
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At the risk of upsetting the "antis", do you have a link to the video?
 
from the video's I have seen of ' Potters', that is the last place I would consider sending my horse
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And that is your choice - as it is the OP's to send her horse there.

Seeing a horse destroyed is not pleasant - but you need to view these things disspationately, in order to make a fair assessment of them. And making a knee jerk reaction to a video you may have seen (possibly by Animal Aid) is not the best way to make a considered judgement.

If you have watched the Animal Aid video I think you've watched - then there was absolutely no reason to take issue with it - when viewed dispasionately. The grey pony was handled professionaly and calmly - and was calm itself - with no sign of distress.
 
I've just thought of a solution - put it in tandem driving:D:D wasn't that a solution the other day on here!!

Agree with OP. Sensible option far more awful things could happen to this dangerous animal. I'm afraid too many fluffy people live in their "pink" sanitised world and need to get a grip on reality.
 
Just out of interest how many people have been inside such a slaughter house and seen the whole process including the death?
my worry is what goes on behind the scenes where no one sees what goes on.
 
Jen_Cots said:
Tic Tac - I watched the video of a wee grey pony at Potters - other than the annoying text of "Some childs loved pony etc etc " the video wasn't offensive at all

Pony handled well, clean kill and much better than watching my liveries horse in real life get up and down from the lethal injection. Lurching and shuddering, plus horse not very impressed at massive injection as last human contact either...

This video made me feel happier at sending my horse off, as the handlers were so good and could not be faulted.
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What about the one with the injured horse? etc

Lets face it there is never going to be total agreement on a subject like this so I'll agree to differ.
 
TicTac said:
What about the one with the injured horse? etc

Lets face it there is never going to be total agreement on a subject like this so I'll agree to differ.
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So, Tic Tac, what is the alternative that you would like to put forward? Are you making a case that there should be no abbatoires for horses?
 
jemima_too said:
And it's an opinion formed from real experience, not from watching a video put out by decidedly odd "animal lovers".
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Even better than an informed opinion, it's FACT. I've been to Potters with horses over the years as well & it's a very professional organisation from start to finish.

Tic Tac did you know for instance that trainee slaughtermen/women are kicked off the training course if they show any sign of 'enjoying' the task, or if they aren't competent animal handlers?

No, I don't expect you did, because you're far happier believing the kind of
bull that AA pedal to people like you. To be honest you've no real right to an opinion because you've no personal experience to base it on, unlike nativeponies,myself & several other who have.
 
I think this thread should be closed now as OP has got the answer they origionally wanted and now it's just turned into a pointless debate that is going round and around in circles! I think some people posting on here are doing so just to get a reaction- talking about horses as just pointless pieces of meat is going to cause upset to most readers and therefore cause somewhat of an uproar.
I personally believe that all my horses has forever homes and so would personally try every option in the book to provide the horse a home, whether it meant it could be ridden or not. If for some reason my horse had to be pts it would be done by a vet in the comfort of his own home and familiar surroundings. No body can begin to imagine the fear that animals feel whilst in a slaughter house waiting for their fate. They know whats about to happen and that's no way for a horse to live its last moments.

Anyway I think this thread should be closed now, it seems nothing out there will change OP's mind and it's just turning into a petty squabble.
 
and now it's just turned into a pointless debate that is going round and around in circles!
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It hasn't in any way turned in to a pointless debate.

No discussion on this sort of issue is pointless. It's very informative - especially to those who are actually uninformed......
 
Elliegazzellie said:
Anyway I think this thread should be closed now, it seems nothing out there will change OP's mind and it's just turning into a petty squabble.
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Really?

I think this is quite possibly one of the more grown up debates I`ve seen on here in a while....no swearing...no rants at each other.... closing a thread that upsets a few people is not the answer...

Arguments for and against have been given..... its not a whole load of he said / she said...people have actually been to abattoirs and sharing their experience! The people who are against are often the ones with no experience of it and think all ponies should live in fluffy bunny land etc :rolleyes:

I used to be totally against slaughtering horses....after seeing what some people can do to them i often think slaughter is the only way out.... I`ve seen a horse being given a lethal injection....I watched that horse take 30 minutes to die...spasm in pain and prompt everyone involved into tears!!!!
 
Its not pointless. I for one have learnt an awful lot. I have my personal choices and have gone down the cremation route previously. However, that horse was a long time companion, owned for over 20 years and was always going to be PTS in that manner - I "owed" him. However, for a horse/pony that is dangerous I do not have any such sympathies and do think it is odd that it was suggested that pony should be sold on as a companion. I have found this thread to be highly informative and can I just point out - the amount of discussion shared would not have been gained by simply googling or calling the abbatoirs. Good thread and made for a lot of thought so THANK YOU OP and those who have placed rational and infornative posts up!
 
Elliegazzellie said:
They know whats about to happen and that's no way for a horse to live its last moments.
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Horses are not normally rated as more intelligent than pigs. My last four pigs were shot one at a time behind a barrier preventing the remaining pigs from seeing what was going on. As each pig was removed and shot the remaining pigs jumped slightly at the sound of the gun and then carried on what they were doing - dozing in the straw. We had to wake them up to get the next one behind the barrier - a matter of four feet from her sisters. None of them were stressed at all or worried about anything. Even when they were moved into the pen where a sister had just been killed and only rudimentary cleaning had been carried out they were not worried or upset, they were more interested in rootling through the new straw on the ground.

Why would you assume that horses have any idea of what is going to happen when pigs don't even at such close quarters.

Oh and btw I'm not posting to wind anyone up, rather to educate the large number of people who don't know what happens when an animal is killed or who have wrong beliefs put in their heads by "animal welfare" propaganda. The vast number of people who work killing animals have a great empathy with them. They need to have, humans can only "control" these large beasts by their co-operation. An upset animal is uncontrollable and dangerous.
 
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