Members feedback

D

Diamore

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 March 2016
Messages
101
Visit site
I know this is hot on the BD forum but to try and get additional reach thought i would post here.

Under new rules music classes will now penalise you in straight classes, this is being retrospectively applied and a current rule that protects this removed.

I urge any BD members on here to give their feedback to feedbackATbritishdressage.co.uk and feel free to use my template below-

Dear BD

I would like you to revisit the music eligibility for 2017. I appreciate that there is talk of 2018 music championships but this is far off with just one music championship a year.

Currently the rules proposed are set to penalise members who are currently competing and following rule 64-

If qualification is obtained for Music Regionals at a higher level than that for non-music classes this will not affect non-music qualifications or combination’s eligibility for a level/section in non-music classes.
Competing at a Regional in music classes does not affect eligibility for Area Festivals

This is set to change and I feel this is unfair on existing members that you are retrospectively penalising.

When you implemented the new sections, you did not retrospectively award prelim points to horses and I think given this history you should apply this to Music.

True there would need to be a caveat to ensure those previous winners are not eligible but perhaps set a top 10 finish or % score at regionals rather than blanket competed at.

In addition, you have limited all true Bronze riders to never competing in music, under rule 64 in place currently this would have not been the case.
Music classes are many peoples first step up a level as they can design the test to show the movements as easily as possible.
Novice music is basically Prelim 19 plus “some” medium trot strides, hardly comparable to N39 that is used for the Regionals.

The BD forum has been littered with examples of Music now penalising people under the new proposals and I urge you to revisit this, and tweak the rules so that you enable people to compete at the level appropriate.

I look forward to hearing your feedback

Kind regards
 
it's a good letter, but I honestly can't decide how I feel about this. I know it's rubbish that BD are applying the rule retrospectively, but I kind of support the principle if it weren't for that... there are other elements with the new structure that are oddities, like no gold AF - all of which affect people *at the moment* while waiting for the AF reforms to work through. I'd guess that bronze music may be one of the things that come along when the music classes are reworked, though as there are no straight regionals at Bronze, I'm not sure how that works.

In the meantime... should participation at regionals at a level above (even when you can work the test to your advantage) really not exclude you from arguably the 'beginner' section at the level below? To qualify for regionals at music the judge must have thought the technical aspect of the music test to be sufficiently high, not just the artistic elements..

Besides which, you can qualify for straight regionals without doing the tough regional test right up until the day of the regionals, so it's always been possible to qualify for stuff by taking the easiest route possible and therefore not be quite prepared for the standard when you get there, but that's a choice we make as individuals, whether that's worth the bother or not.

Dunno. I've only done 2 music classes in my life on a horse that wasn't up to the standard on the day so it has no impact on me. But even if it did, I think I'd have to reflect that I probably was ready to move on up having dipped my toes in and got a good-ish score. As it stands, I wouldn't now want to spend loads of time dreaming up a floorplan and music just for me to try out a level - I'd rather make that effort when I felt we were proficient at the level and could therefore show strengths rather than hide weaknesses, but then I seem to do all my BD ar$e about face compared to the majority anyway!
 
Have to agree with Milliepops, I agree with the newest amends even if it is all massively too complicated (whispers bring back two wins and you're in :o lovely and simple).

The only part I feel is slightly unfair is the people who did Novice music as there is no Prelim music, but really you are not bronze at the level below if you've been to regionals at the level above in my opinion...

Train more, get better, aim high is what I'm going by, we came 11th at Summers and I'm ecstatic, no pro rider scoring mega %'s can dampen our achievement of scoring 67% at regionals with a bonkers carriage horse reject!
 
Every time I consider joining BD on their 6 month BE membership thingy, I see threads like this and quickstep away! Crikey it's complicated and all seems a bit "it's not fair".

Retrospectively introducing rules is a bit ar&e about face and unfair though.
 
Nicnac said:
Every time I consider joining BD on their 6 month BE membership thingy, I see threads like this and quickstep away! Crikey it's complicated and all seems a bit "it's not fair".

Retrospectively introducing rules is a bit ar&e about face and unfair though.
Click to expand...

Well it is... unless you think they've done it deliberately - the membership complained about silver being too open, and pro riders/ very able riders being able to dominate it so some additional protection has been proposed to screen some of those out...

Seems to me that it's the same principle applying here to Bronze - screening out people who were good enough not just to have a go at the level above (albeit music, it's still a higher level with greater expectations around movements and quality of way of going) but to also qualify for a regional championship. I'd have thought the 'true' bronze competitor - which are supposed to be first time to a level - would be pleased to see the bronze eligibility tightened up in this way.

Nicnac as a first time BDer you are able to be bronze for everything if you choose and if you prefer to go for regionals, then that's open to you. Easy!
 
Its giving me a headache now! I didn't love the last set of rules but i did understand them and had built a plan around them. Now i need to go back and thoroughly read the amendments and make a new plan, i'm hoping that i haven't ridden myself out of anything in the meantime!

It is a shame about the music as i would have planned to do Ele silver and possibly try to qualify medium music, thankfully i haven't had chance to get my music done so i will get my bronze AF qual at medium for next year instead and then try for winters after that.
 
What millipops says.
I do have some sympathy in the fact retrospective rule changes are never necessarily fair bit like the down grading debacle at the start of the 2016 new rules
 
Hi guys

Slightly missed the point here!

It's not bronze the level below but at that level!
So you do novice music as no prelim music- Automatically you are silver novice!

Equally why should people be penalised retrospectively?
 
Diamore said:
Hi guys
Slightly missed the point here!

It's not bronze the level below but at that level!
So you do novice music as no prelim music- Automatically you are silver novice!

Equally why should people be penalised retrospectively?
Click to expand...

No not missed the point. I think if you have had experience of a national championship at that level you are not a first timer at that level that bronze is meant to be for. Yes previously silver has been too open but hopefully now it will be restricted a bit going forward, I'm not sure if it will but that is what it is being sold as. You could still be in prelim silver if you havent scored over the eligibility percentages at your music regional/championship. There is also still AF's at silver in both prelim and novice surely they are realistic goals if you don't want to chase for regional qualification.
As I've said above retrospective is never fair and I do have sympathy on that front.
 
^exactly that, no missing the point here either, people may not like it but being regional material does not make you a beginner/newcomer at a level.

I am not regional/ national material but wouldn't expect to continue in elementary bronze/ or even AF despite not being good enough for nationals, it's just how it is we are not the best of the best it equally too experienced now for bronze/ AF.

I agree that retrospective rules are not fair but otherwise I like the new rules...
 
Ok look it from here
FSM novice is basically prelim 19 with "some" medium Trot steps
Hardly comparable to any of the actual novice tests, and most definitely not for nov39 which is the regional test

So how is it fair that you could do FSM with tiny amount of med trot- which is fair to say a starting into novice tests?
And then be penalised in straight classes where the movements are then linked and more demanding?

Equally from a retrospective view, if you originally competed thinking you could and now your penalised?

Anyway the point of this is that members need to speak up if this effects them!
 
Diamore said:
Ok look it from here
FSM novice is basically prelim 19 with "some" medium Trot steps
Hardly comparable to any of the actual novice tests, and most definitely not for nov39 which is the regional test

So how is it fair that you could do FSM with tiny amount of med trot- which is fair to say a starting into novice tests?
And then be penalised in straight classes where the movements are then linked and more demanding?

Equally from a retrospective view, if you originally competed thinking you could and now your penalised?

Anyway the point of this is that members need to speak up if this effects them!
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced applying retrospectively is the right way to go but I have no problem with the actual ruling.

In general BD riders need to get over the whole 'this isn't fair' attitude and just concentrate on improving.

You rarely hear this type of mentality out eventing - the majority aspire to beat the big names that are in their section, or at least get close!

And I do feel I'm justified to comment - my horse eligibility has been negatively impacted by both sets of rule changes.
 
ihatework said:
In general BD riders need to get over the whole 'this isn't fair' attitude and just concentrate on improving.

You rarely hear this type of mentality out eventing - the majority aspire to beat the big names that are in their section, or at least get close!
Click to expand...

^^ agree.
I still come back to the fact that you must be good enough for Novice straight, if you can qualify for Regionals at Novice music. If you come last with 55% in the music class then fair enough, go for bronze, because that's not going to be good enough to begin to qualify for regionals. But if you win with high 60s plus, then you probably ARE ready for silver, even if you've done the bare minimum to get the score.

We won't all qualify for regionals, we won't all get from regionals to nationals... by definition the vast majority are making up the numbers and the sooner we all accept that, the better... and the more fun we'll be able to have.

No vested interest, I can't ride Bronze until AM but TBH I have no desire to either.

I think this is basically fixing an anomaly that existed in the old Open/Restricted structure where you could compete at levels above your straight classes, very successfully, without it affecting anything because music carried no points. Therefore horse didn't go over its points, and rider didn't get bumped up a group. I think that was quite a bonkers concept.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top