Men and riding....

ycbm said:
Some suggestions of stress in the mother, and latest research suggests it's testosterone/oestrogen balance that's key, not pure testosterone levels, but it's not totally clear.

My poor mother wanted a little girl to dress in pink bows and got one who wanted to roll in the dirt in her brothers' outgrown jeans :D
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Oh that's interesting. Might go have a nosy on pubmed, see if I can find out more.
And yes, a lot of my family wanted a girly girl too. They are most disappointed, :D but hey, at least with horses I'll never be able to afford drugs :lol:
 
The yard where I ride has very, very few boys, but loads of girls. The organisation changed a couple of years ago, and there are no ponies at our yard now (they all went to a sister yard), so I no longer see the small kids of four years and up, but there were never any boys that young... Youngest boys were about eight or ten, and out numbered by girls of that age easily twenty to one. There are two male instructors, five female instructors. The yard manager is a man, but he manages five yards, so much of the time he leaves day-to-day management to one of the male instructors who is about twenty years older than any of the others.

The ratio seems to stay around twenty to one until we get to adults of around thirty or so, and now we have chaps outnumbered by ladies by about twelve to one... I'm sometimes the only bloke in a class (there is one other regular bloke in my class), but there are at least another five of us up at the yard at various times during the week.

When I'm across the street chatting to friends and helping out, there's also very visible gender difference. I'm often the only bloke other than the joint owner and occasionally a bloke who keeps a competition horse there. Other than us, there are just small girls and no boys (like, under eights), teenaged girls and a few women. When the farrier comes round, he doubles the male presence in the yard.

As to why this is the case... that's a really big and complicated question.

Do boys of that age prefer kicking a ball around? Do they prefer video games?

Do parents encourage girls to play with big animals (a pony is much heavier than a small child) in order to develop assertiveness and self-confidence?

Is plaiting a pony's mane and tail an extension of plaiting a girls own hair or that of a doll?

I tried encouraging my son to come riding... he tried a couple of times but didn't like it much. Even telling him that it was a great way to meet girls didn't work.

He compared riding a horse to riding a bike.

"On my bike, if I want to go right, I go right. On a horse, if I want to go right, and the horse wants to go left, we end up going left."

He felt out of control. And maybe the idea of being the beginner surrounded by girls who far outclassed him made him uncomfortable.
 
It seems to be quite British, and possibly related to class. Rightly or wrongly, riding is often viewed as distinctly middle class in the UK. In Ireland being horsey seems more widely spread across the social spectrum. It's a shame that's how it's perceived, as horses clearly don't give a f about gender, race, class or anything!

I've sometimes wondered if the large number of pony books by British female authors from the 50s to 80s contributed to the popularity of ponies amongst British girl readers. American or Australian horsey books for young readers seemed to be more neutral or masculine (eg The Black Stallion and Silver Brumby series).
 
Crazydancer said:
Nothing to add to the thread.... other than the 3rd finger on one hand is a different length to the other! So one of my hands is a tomboy and t'other isn't!!
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Same for me! Right hand third finger is longer, left hand shorter. May be something to do with being left-handed or something to do with having broken my left index finger, which is actually straighter than the one on the right.

Our farrier YO is much keener that his little lad should be into tractors and shooting than ponies so I can't see him joining the ranks for horsey men ;)
 
My ring finger is a good cm longer than my index finger on both hands.. Probably explains a lot... But I'm sure I've read something about length of the third finger and musical ability as well.
 
We have quite a few men at my yard but you are right op it does seem to be mostly female at every yard you go to, i always thought it was connected to the nurture side of women really, a lot of women i know 'mother' their horses and call them their babies and lots of them forgo having kids as their mothering desire is fulfilled by their fur babies ;)
 
Farma said:
We have quite a few men at my yard but you are right op it does seem to be mostly female at every yard you go to, i always thought it was connected to the nurture side of women really, a lot of women i know 'mother' their horses and call them their babies and lots of them forgo having kids as their mothering desire is fulfilled by their fur babies ;)
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And on here, there seem to be quite a few who have chosen a handle on the pattern [horse name]smum...
 
I'm being really thick going from the thumb outwards which fingers are you looking at? If I'm right mine are longer and I'm definitely a Tom boy I love football, watch f1 don't do girly shows such as strictly, hate dresses and the colour pink and also hate clothes shopping 😂
As a child the only dolls I allowed were barbies etc who came with the horses 😂 I used to think the maternal instinct had passed me and I'd have lots of cat children instead but that does seem to have suddenly hit!
 
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Chinchilla said:
Oh that's interesting. Might go have a nosy on pubmed, see if I can find out more.
And yes, a lot of my family wanted a girly girl too. They are most disappointed, :D but hey, at least with horses I'll never be able to afford drugs :lol:
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There's always an upside;)
 
I'm the only male on a livery yard of 20+ females. My male friends will often visit the yard, and appreciate the fact I ride, but show no signs of taking it up themselves. Nearly all of them are into cycling instead (and probably spend more on their bikes than I do on my horse!). I don't think it's purely the care element that keeps blokes away from horses, but more the time factor and commitment involved with doing anything competitive. Most people can pretty much hop on any bike and get better very quickly. Bikes are easy to upgrade and tinker with too. Horses are more a of a complete lifestyle. I kinda wish there was a way that they could experience the thrill of haring round a cross-country course on a horse early on. That buzz would probably convince many of them to ride.
 
soapy said:
I don't think it's purely the care element that keeps blokes away from horses, but more the time factor and commitment involved with doing anything competitive.
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soapy said:
Bikes are easy to upgrade and tinker with too. Horses are more a of a complete lifestyle.
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This fits with the idea of wanting to be in control, like I described with my son and his comparison of a horse to a bike.

Not only that the horse has a mind of its own and might not want to take the exact path that the rider wants, but also the possibility of making a mechanical change to a bike and getting an immediate change in performance (changing the tyres for a different rubber compound or tread pattern, changing the brake blocks, changing the sprocket set, etc.).

Other than the stereotypical "mechanically minded boys who play with train sets and then with bikes and cars", maybe there is a cultural tendency for boys to want to tweak and get immediate results whereas girls will put in the time to school a horse and hope for improvement.
 
Farma said:
i always thought it was connected to the nurture side of women really, a lot of women i know 'mother' their horses and call them their babies and lots of them forgo having kids as their mothering desire is fulfilled by their fur babies ;)
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More likely they forego having babies because they can't lock them in a stable and leave them all night to go to a party, chuck them in a field and go on holiday, and sell them if they get too much for them :D
 
ycbm said:
More likely they forego having babies because they can't lock them in a stable and leave them all night to go to a party, chuck them in a field and go on holiday, and sell them if they get too much for them :D
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^Me! And it's much cheaper to pay someone to look after a horse for a few days than drag a child on holiday! ��
 
PaddyMonty said:
In my late teens I very much enjoyed the male/female ratio.
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I think it's great advice for any shy teenage boy to help out at their local stables, especially volunteering to catch the difficult nags and do the dirty jobs. They'd be fighting off hormone-frenzied girls with a stick!

Anton Du Beke (real name Tony Beak) gave up football to focus on ballroom dancing as a teen, having realised how the ratio worked in his favour.
 
Thanks to everyone who has replied to this! It's been so interesting reading through your thoughts.. some of them matched my own musings - but you've all given me a load of new ideas about this too. And it's made me think more about the whole women-as-caregivers or 'mums' to their horses - so interesting! I wonder why/how we've gone from seeing our horses as work machine/military tools (for men) to the way horse culture is now...
It's also made me think about the way we talk about our horses' gender! I wonder if mares really do have more 'feminine' features, 'moody' natures etc. Or is there stereotyping at play here?

What does everyone think about the idea that horses are 'substitute children' for some women?
 
Keith_Beef said:
This fits with the idea of wanting to be in control, like I described with my son and his comparison of a horse to a bike.

Not only that the horse has a mind of its own and might not want to take the exact path that the rider wants, but also the possibility of making a mechanical change to a bike and getting an immediate change in performance (changing the tyres for a different rubber compound or tread pattern, changing the brake blocks, changing the sprocket set, etc.).

Other than the stereotypical "mechanically minded boys who play with train sets and then with bikes and cars", maybe there is a cultural tendency for boys to want to tweak and get immediate results whereas girls will put in the time to school a horse and hope for improvement.
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This is really interesting. I wonder why feeling out of control would put men off horses though? Do men like being in control more than women?
 
It really doesn't help that there is so little clothing and equipment for men. It makes them feel excluded and as though they don't fit in. Much of it is basically unisex (or could be if the manufacturers weren't so hell bent on adding pink glitter to everything) but things aren't made in men's sizes.

My husband and nephew both ride, and getting gear for them is really difficult. When my nephew was little it was possible to get girls things in not too girly colours but for adults it is more difficult.

Boots and gloves are the most frustrating as they would literally just need to be sized up with the same designs. Why do so many boots only go up to a 7 or 8? Ariat only have two styles of long boots that go above an 8, and they are more expensive.

Breeches are a bit more difficult as they do need to be a different shape but often a brand will have 3 pages of designs for women and just 2 styles for men, in 3 colours.

Even when a brand does menswear often it is difficult to find. At Burghley one year my husband was looking for some riding wear and most of the stalls we visited had no menswear at all (we asked).

Really frustrating.
 
Glooc said:
Thanks to everyone who has replied to this! It's been so interesting reading through your thoughts.. some of them matched my own musings - but you've all given me a load of new ideas about this too. And it's made me think more about the whole women-as-caregivers or 'mums' to their horses - so interesting! I wonder why/how we've gone from seeing our horses as work machine/military tools (for men) to the way horse culture is now...
It's also made me think about the way we talk about our horses' gender! I wonder if mares really do have more 'feminine' features, 'moody' natures etc. Or is there stereotyping at play here?

What does everyone think about the idea that horses are 'substitute children' for some women?
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I do wonder above it the gender stereotype thing too, and the more obvious gender bias with lots of people preferring geldings over mares (although that seems more about entire v snipped!).

As for replacement children, there does seem to be a pet mum/fur baby thing. I’ve never been particularly maternal and don’t feel that way about horses but I do think that if I hadn’t found horses in my later years I might have had kids.
 
A really interesting thread! My eldest son rides, he is now 16 and didn’t start riding until 12/13 when I started again. He’s now the keenest rider in the family, I’m more happy hacker these days. We have our own yard so no livery dynamics to deal with, I do wonder if that would have put him off. I’m sure he would welcome the opportunity to meet more horsey girls on a bigger yard though!

His biggest frustration is buying clothing. We’ve been to badminton and barbury this year and so difficult to find anything for men.
 
MouseInLux said:
I’ve noticed that at low levels there are more women/girls and then as the level get higher there is a change. Our yard is run by a man, our trainer is a man, the person who works with our youngsters is a man and we have more and more male boarders too.
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Yes so true! why do you think this is??
 
If anyone could suggest good male clothing that doesn’t cost a fortune I’d be grateful!

My 14 nearly 15 year old is just over 6’2 but built like a beanpole. He could do with 28’ (or 26’ if they did it!) waist kids with a 34+’ leg.

I’ve found a couple of male jods that go that slim but they’re always miles too short. I don’t want to spend a fortune as he’s only 14 and not interested in brands, he isn’t the most careful with his clothes (caught one of the few pairs of decent fitting jods on the fence a few weeks ago and tore them! 😫), and he hasn’t finished growing, lord help me!

Up until now he’s been able to fit into women’s longer length size 6/8. Funnily enough his best fitting jodhpurs were the cotton ones aldi did a few years back! He has three pairs! They are now too short in the leg but they fit really well until he was about 5’10+.

So if anyone could suggest v v slim fitting with super long leg length I’d be delighted!
 
Keith_Beef said:
This fits with the idea of wanting to be in control, like I described with my son and his comparison of a horse to a bike.

Not only that the horse has a mind of its own and might not want to take the exact path that the rider wants, but also the possibility of making a mechanical change to a bike and getting an immediate change in performance (changing the tyres for a different rubber compound or tread pattern, changing the brake blocks, changing the sprocket set, etc.).

Other than the stereotypical "mechanically minded boys who play with train sets and then with bikes and cars", maybe there is a cultural tendency for boys to want to tweak and get immediate results whereas girls will put in the time to school a horse and hope for improvement.
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I manage to ride, cycle and run. Time is the only factor which stops me doing all 3 more.
 
Kat said:
It really doesn't help that there is so little clothing and equipment for men. It makes them feel excluded and as though they don't fit in. Much of it is basically unisex (or could be if the manufacturers weren't so hell bent on adding pink glitter to everything) but things aren't made in men's sizes.

My husband and nephew both ride, and getting gear for them is really difficult. When my nephew was little it was possible to get girls things in not too girly colours but for adults it is more difficult.

Boots and gloves are the most frustrating as they would literally just need to be sized up with the same designs. Why do so many boots only go up to a 7 or 8? Ariat only have two styles of long boots that go above an 8, and they are more expensive.

Breeches are a bit more difficult as they do need to be a different shape but often a brand will have 3 pages of designs for women and just 2 styles for men, in 3 colours.

Even when a brand does menswear often it is difficult to find. At Burghley one year my husband was looking for some riding wear and most of the stalls we visited had no menswear at all (we asked).

Really frustrating.
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I almost never find horseriding clothing in shops; they only seem to stock women's and children's sizes. So I end up buying online. If returns are free, I'll order the same item in two or three sizes and send back what doesn't fit.

It's not quite true that increasing sizes is just scaling up the dimensions of an existing pattern. Just for patterns for cutting out cloth, it's not quite that simple.

For leather footwear, it's even more complex, and I think that to bring down the cost to produce each pair of boots, as much as possible needs to be done by machine. Looking at my Soubirac boots (I think they are the cadre noir model), there seem to be three pieces to the upper: the vamp, the quarter (or counter) and the shaft. These would be stamped out, using a "knife" that is the shape of the piece.

A boot is often available in foot sizes, like 9, 9-1/2, 10, 10-1/2, but also in calf sizes, both circumference and height.

I'm not a bootmaker, not even a boot "enthusiast" ;), and I've not seriously thought this through, but even if a knife can cut a standard piece that can be re-cut by hand to give a narrower or shorter shaft, you might still need several differently sized and shaped knives to make the shaft for all the combinations on a given foot size.

That's a lot of expensive tooling to have made and to maintain, for what is in the end a quite small market, making the cost to produce each pair quite high.
 
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