Mini-rant: Getting your horse to go "down on the bit"

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Bee<3

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Just need to let some steam off.:mad: Girl at my stables gets her horse to go "down on the bit" by putting her hands right down below the withers and uses a 'chain-saw' action. She insists the horse is going lovely but I'm sure the horse isn't very comfortable. I've always been told to have a strong contact, push the horse forward and as soon as its hind legs start going forward properly, the horse will go into an outline. Opinions?

Rant over :D Thank ya;)
 
Good heavens! WHO is teaching people these things? NEITHER of you are persuing a path that will result in a horse going happily on the bit and with his body in the correct posture.
 
:confused::confused:
Was always taught keep hands soft with little squeezes down the reins if horse doesnt respond, if I had strong hands and pushed forward with any of the horses I ride, they would either dump me or go up!:eek:
 
Blimey.

Horses put up with such a lot.

If I rode with a strong contact I wouldn't get anywhere as strong contact + leg = rearing as far as my mare is concerned. I have to ride her with 'baby birds' IE hold the reins as if they are baby birds not reins. Squeeze too tightly and the birds get squished, hold too lightly and the birds fly away.
 
Faracat said:
Blimey.

Horses put up with such a lot.

If I rode with a strong contact I wouldn't get anywhere as strong contact + leg = rearing as far as my mare is concerned. I have to ride her with 'baby birds' IE hold the reins as if they are baby birds not reins. Squeeze too tightly and the birds get squished, hold too lightly and the birds fly away.
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Faracat I love that!! Im gonna use that with my friend, shes struggling with the idea of contact. Dont wanna squish the birdie!:(
 
Faracat said:
Blimey.

Horses put up with such a lot.

If I rode with a strong contact I wouldn't get anywhere as strong contact + leg = rearing as far as my mare is concerned. I have to ride her with 'baby birds' IE hold the reins as if they are baby birds not reins. Squeeze too tightly and the birds get squished, hold too lightly and the birds fly away.
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This, well put !
 
I just tie their mouths to their necks with baling twine for a week at a time. Never had a problem..

:D
 
I had a wonderful instructor a while back. If you didn't understand one explanation, she would try to explain the same thing a different way. She also told me to get forwards sorted before even *thinking* about asking the horse to lower it's head.

I know that you understand how these PBA's like to keep their heads high (they're far too nosey if you ask me :p).
 
One of the things that gets me is that contact is most often expressed as being about the the rien when in truth is its about the whole picture the hand the leg and the seat the horse must accept and understand all the the aids to be turely on the aids or on the bit as we often express it but on the bit is only less than half the story .
Until you can influence the whole horse you are fighting a losing battle .
 
Im curious now, I've been taught a few ways. My first instructor seemed to insist my horse worked in an outline all the time and to do that I had to have a strong contact on the outside rein and play with the inside rein (gently squeezing then releasing the rein) with my hands right down by her withers. Second instructor wanted me to have a strong contact on both reins and wiggle them, not excessively or hard, and when doing circles I had to bring my inside hand right out past my knee but keep hold of the outside rein as this would make her bend. My horse started to lean with first instructor, got worse with second and holding my hands out on a constant circle would kill my arms.
I now have lessons off my bosses wife who isn't an instructor, she just wants to help me out. She gets me to start off with no contact as Ethel will then walk and trot round with her head practically on the floor. After about 5-10 mins I take up a contact and hold my hands up at all times. She gets me to slowly squeeze and release both reins alternatively to keep the bit moving and preventing her from leaning. Doing this also brings her head down and sometimes we get a step or two in a true outline, though it's not very often. This way seems to be working for us but is it the right way?
 
Faracat said:
Blimey.

Horses put up with such a lot.

If I rode with a strong contact I wouldn't get anywhere as strong contact + leg = rearing as far as my mare is concerned. I have to ride her with 'baby birds' IE hold the reins as if they are baby birds not reins. Squeeze too tightly and the birds get squished, hold too lightly and the birds fly away.
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Perfectly logical though by your mare:) brakes are on and rider is peddling hard the only way left to go is upwards:eek:
And yes, they put up with sooo much:(
I've been told to use both methods, sawing and firm contact, at various times in my two years of riding lessons. I don't agree with either way.
 
Did my first ever dressage test the other week, horse went like a giraffe despite my best efforts to get her going round :( all judges comments said "horse avoiding contact"
I know you would have to see me riding to know what the problem might be but if anyone has any general tips that would be helpful
 
What you do is, tie the bit to the tail. Can't put his head up then and judges can't tell ;)
 
Just thought I'd make our leaning issue a bit clearer! My horse holds her head stupidly high, and my attempts at getting her to lower it (doing what first instructor said) firstly made her go lovely, then soon resulted in leaning and when she leant I was told to give her a quick jab which made her head shoot back up again in protest (teeth were/are fine) and it was a viscous circle for us.
She doesnt lean as much now but still has her moments and seems to think that because I'm asking her to lower her head it means she can get me to carry her fat head round the place! We are working through it though now that my bosses wife works on me rather than just my horse like the others did.
 
Tallyho ! You are making drinking my tea impossible!! Loving your comments.

One of my pet hates is riding horses that go along with their head down but are totally dead to the leg. The most important thing is to have a horse going correctly forward off the leg... Do this and with consistent contact the front end will take care of itself.
 
TrasaM said:
Perfectly logical though by your mare:) brakes are on and rider is peddling hard the only way left to go is upwards:eek:
And yes, they put up with sooo much:(
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Yes, poor love was a bit confused as to what was being asked of her. I do tell everyone who gets on her to use gentle hands to prevent such incidents happening.

as this would make her bend
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You don't make them - you ask.

First the horse needs to be working forwards (don't mistake speed for energy), off your leg aids and into a light, constant but elastic contact (If that makes sense). The horse should move from your leg into your hands. I was taught to keep a more steady contact with the outside rein and gently wiggle the inside one to ask. Once the horse softens, stop wiggling.

I spent several lessons being told to ignore her head position as her forwardsness and the contact needed sorting first.
 
Tonitot when you school do you ask your horse for some contact straight away? I only ask as my cob will not come under himself and round properly if I don't allow him 10 mins of long and low work first. Once he's stretched out and warmed up I start to ask for a better shape. If someone gets on and tries straight away he will just giraffe.

Similarly, giraffing midway through schooling is his way of telling me its becoming uncomfortable. I drop my contact and allow him to stretch for a few strides then ask him to pick it up again and this generally works.

If he giraffes and I carry on asking for outline he'll just giraffe higher an higher so once he starts doing it I don't give him anything to fight against lol :o
 
MillyMoomie said:
One of my pet hates is riding horses that go along with their head down but are totally dead to the leg. The most important thing is to have a horse going correctly forward off the leg... Do this and with consistent contact the front end will take care of itself.
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Simple solution is to release a terrier. Preferably a short legged yappy sort that likes to nip horses heels. The smaller the better as then the horse won't be able to see it and will go forward effortlessly wondering what the heck is making such a racket.

You see them at most shows so must be dressage legal! :)
 
Tonitot, quick jab?!!!! What?!!! All that is doing is teaching the horse that when it takes accepts ANY contact it is going to get socked in the mouth. You want your horse to take the contact and feel confident enough to do this... Hence why good riders hands don't move around.

To stop leaning, I tend to work in a good forward working gait, with transitions. I take the contact and use neck yielding whilst giving and taking with the leaning rein... When the horse doesn't Lower/raise the head when I give the contact it gets praise. Does that make any sense?!!
 
Look, the way I see it is that 'down on the bit' is an oxymoron. Why would anyone want a horse leaning on their hands for one? Taking a contact is another phrase that's completely misunderstood often IME.

For a horse to bring their head down and work in a true outline, they need to be connected from the hindquarters (engine) all the way to the poll. You don't achieve that by fiddling with the head which will more often than not block the power of the hindquarters and the horse's use of the back. What often works for me is to ride forwards with what might be considered long(ish) reins concentrating on keeping the horse balanced and letting the power work through - horses will usually seek a contact then and you can slowly start to teach the horse to shorten/lengthen and ride into a stronger contract as you wish. Remember though that the horse needs to be strong enough behind to do this - it takes time and certain level of fitness.

If you pull and play with the reins you are risking having a horse that at first glance looks like it is an outline but as soon as they move it will be obvious that they aren't using the hindquarters correctly and are being ridden front to back. So what, you might say? JMHO but your horse is now building the wrong sets of muscles (back problems?), will probably be on their forehand (tendon, suspensory issues?) and can't work effectively and safely...
 
Faracat, thats what I mean, she would get me to make her bend rather than ask her to, which resulted in her being tense all over because she just didn't understand (only had two lessons with that instructor)

I find it hard with my horse as she likes to go everywhere fast and with her head up or if I'm asking her to bring her head down she'll go fast and lean. Same goes for circles, I either get head in the air and no attempt at bending whatsoever, or I get a bit of bend and leaning.
 
Dear all, I think you have taken my description completely the wrong way! My instructor describes it as cogs, when you get the hind leg tracking up that turns another cog, which in turn, turns another cog which lowers the head. She says the horse has to be going forward in order for it to stretch it's back and lower its head. I'm trying to upload a video of me riding my mum's horse a while back, my position is terrible as it isn't a recent video so don't judge. Anyway, if it uploads you will see I do not have harsh hands and do not pull hard on the horses mouth. Also no crit to the lady on the ground, she is not an instructor just occasionaly helps me out as the horse I am riding in the video can sometimes be difficuilt. If it works ----> http://youtu.be/2OKpPuFFARo
23%
 
Faracat said:
So where can I buy a micro-terrier?
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Readily available at most local shows... Can't guarantee pedigree but since only yap-factor is important, should be easy to secure a good specimen. They are definitely getting smaller as the years go by... You used to be able to see them years ago but now you only know you're near one when you've trodden on it.

Shame badminton is over. There were some delightful specimens on show :cool:
 
Tonitot - have you tried lateral work or pole work with your mare?


ETA. Bee - youtube wont let me watch your video yet. It says try again in a few minutes.
 
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