Mis Sold Pony

[saspo26]

Hi,
Just wanted some advise really please, i bought a pony for my 11yr daughter there was no advert for the pony she responded to my wanted advert on pony club ponies, anyway i told the lady i need a total confidence giver as my daughter can get nervous due to previous issues. my advert stated pony must be good on the ground/not sharp spooky etc..anyway she said pony was 100per cent bombproof great to handle done PC rallies Hunted etc never put a foot wrong, worst she can do is pull for the grass, anyway we have had her for about 6 weeks, first 2 weeks she did pull for the grass but nothing too bad, then she started pulling and running away down the field, i used a chain head collar and she even pulled me down the way i had to let go...i spoke to previos owner and said she has never ever ran off, then after about 2 weeks she bolted round the corner onto the yard with my daughter luckily no one was on the yard it was like walk to gallop in 1 second. again spoke to the owner saying shes never done this before...then tried to load her last weekend to go to show, my daughter lead her out the yard she didnt even see the transpot she just pulled off and ran down the field, i then caught her put her bridle on this time, went to load her she just jumped over side of the trailer and bolted off down the road this time, luckily went into few doors down garden ran through there jumped over their small gate back into the field, caught her again brought the trailer back into the yard so she couldnt get loose on the road again, brought my other pony in front of her so her friend was there besides the trailer, my husband had hold of her this time, she got about 10ft from trailer then just barged pulled my "strong" husband and he had to let go she just bolted off down the field.. i said again to the previous owner and she said never done this before, so anyway i looked on her passport and contacted the people that her her before the lady i bought her from said she has always done this, even ran off with her and her daughter, she bought the pony for £3k and sold her for £1450 inc tack 2yrs later as a pony "not suitable for novice child" this woman has now sold me this pony for £3500 as perfect pony never done anything wrong, shes actually had the pony for 4yrs but not 1 picture on her fb page of her but photos of her other ponies....i know its been 6 weeks but have had few issues after couple of weeks but that bolting and the other owner saying shes always done this and she must have known pony not suitable for novice. ive said to her the pony is not as described she bolts off when she feels like it, i wanted to return her and have my money back, shes just ignoring me now...i am not a member of BHS i have got an appointment with equine solicitor..cant believe she lied when she has kids of her own and she knew i needed a total confidence giver.

 

[bonny]

It sounds to me that the pony has you all sussed, what’s she like to ride ? How much experience have you all got ?

 

[Dave's Mam]

It sounds to me that the pony has you all sussed, what’s she like to ride ? How much experience have you all got ?

The previous owner has confirmed the behaviour is not new.

 

[bonny]

The previous owner has confirmed the behaviour is not new.

That was 4 years ago though, I doubt the family selling kept her for that long if she kept running off.

 

[SusieT]

Have you contacted old owner to ask if return is a possibility? Ponies can be different in different homes and once they learn they can get away they will do it again. How is she to ride otherwise? Have you engaged a trainer to see if it can be worked with? I suspect as pony has been sold as known to pull for grass you may not be able to return unless old owner is a dealer.

 

[saspo26]

That was 4 years ago though, I doubt the family selling kept her for that long if she kept running off.

She owned her own land with other ponies i think the pony was just left in the field, borrowed to a 16yr old girl own did things with her, not suitable for 11yr novice child, she obviously didnt put her own kids on her..no photos on fb of her at all

 

[saspo26]

Have you contacted old owner to ask if return is a possibility? Ponies can be different in different homes and once they learn they can get away they will do it again. How is she to ride otherwise? Have you engaged a trainer to see if it can be worked with? I suspect as pony has been sold as known to pull for grass you may not be able to return unless old owner is a dealer.

she is a NF pony i have had horses ponies over 30yr i would never had sold this pony to a novice child is the whole point, i know they can be bargy but the woman told me the pony was not like this the pony is for my daughter who i said i needed a confidence giver, the other owners said she has always done this i cant trust the pony out on a hack not to run off down the road thats so dangerous

 

[doodle]

How is she when ridden? We had a couple at work who had to be loaded in a chifney by an adult and one in particular could pull away. They knew they could and so they did. Ridden however they were brilliant. Ponies are quick to work out what they can get away with. The seller may well have no had an issue with her. Or perhaps had an issue 4 years ago, nipped it in the bud and it wasn’t an issue again. I don’t think going back to an owner 4 years ago will prove anything.

 

[saspo26]

Have you contacted old owner to ask if return is a possibility? Ponies can be different in different homes and once they learn they can get away they will do it again. How is she to ride otherwise? Have you engaged a trainer to see if it can be worked with? I suspect as pony has been sold as known to pull for grass you may not be able to return unless old owner is a dealer.

There is pulling for grass and bolting off i cant trust this pony now i know the other owners before said she can just bolt off so if she did it with them and she doing it with us im pretty sure she must have done it with her, she was sold this pony as NOT for a novice child i told her own novice my daughter is

 

[doodle]

Also did you try the pony in all situations before you bought her?

 

[AmyMay]

What advice are you after?

 

[saspo26]

Also did you try the pony in all situations before you bought her?

we rode her in the school hacked her out checked she is good in traffic all good, but the pony has had her good days dont get me wrong she has her good points she can jump anything not sharp etc but in a split second on a bad day she can bolt off with no warning, all tack back moth etc been checked

 

[saspo26]

What advice are you after?

if i am within my rights to send the pony back

 

[AmyMay]

if i am within my rights to send the pony back

Possibly, but that’s something your solicitor can advise you on.

 

[doodle]

Bolt off with rider or when being led though? Bolting is one thing but peeing off where she feels like, which is what this sounds like, is NOT bolting.

 

[saspo26]

Bolt off with rider or when being led though? Bolting is one thing but peeing off where she feels like, which is what this sounds like, is NOT bolting.

both she has bolted off with my daughter from the school back to the yard, and quite a few times now bolted off being led

 

[wills_91]

How did she load when you collected her? I think if it's a private sale you've not got much chance of getting them to take her back.

 

[saspo26]

How did she load when you collected her? I think if it's a private sale you've not got much chance of getting them to take her back.

shes actually loaded twice fine with us, i dont think it was the loading, if she gets in her her head she just bolts off, this is not the pony she described to me, like i said she bought the pony as not for novice child and i strictly said i need a pont that is good to handle good on the ground etc

 

[SusieT]

but she bought the pony 4 years ago - in that time many ponies change so what the previous owner says about the pony 4 years ago is not all that relevant..
Have you had a trainer out?

 

[wills_91]

Have you had instructor input? Is she truly bolting or just tanking off? - accept neither is acceptable for your child but will make a huge difference if your stuck with her and need to move her own. If you haven't already I would get instructor or someone out to assess/ride.

I wouldn't get to caught up on what owner of 4 years ago said especially if she has been in the same home ever since, someone contacted me about my mare once and told me she was a known rearer it put the fear into me and really affected my confidence with her. In the 7 years I owned her she never so much as threatened to rear. Doesn't mean she hadn't gone up with them though.

 

[IngramsRoughDiamond]

If it was a private sale, you have no chance. It's a 'buyer beware' market with private sales, unfortunately

 

[Ample Prosecco]

A private seller can't knowingly mislead. So yes you may be able to send back and get a refund. But you need to prove the horse was knowingly missold which could be tricky without an ad. But you have your wanted ad and the info from the old owners which could help. Post your question on the Dodgy Dealers FB page and you'll get good advice on what your options are. They can often offer very useful advice.

 

[holeymoley]

Unsure if you’re advert was on a pony club pony category or whether not was the pony club webpage, if it’s the actual pony club, contact the local DC and ask about it. Certainly around here everyone knows every pony that’s been in pony club.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Bolting is a very specific action and a word misused significantly. It sounds like the pony has found an evasion, used it successfully once, twice and then it is now a learned behaviour it can pull out whenever it is faced with something it doesn’t want to comply with or most likely, it is scared or uncertain due to the cues it is getting from handler/rider.

No pony is perfect. They don’t exist. You have failed to do the appropriate level of due diligence to determine whether your daughter and family have the appropriate level of skill for this pony. It is not the sellers fault.

Get quality help in training. Get some groundwork lessons from a qualified professional. Solve the leading problem first. The failure to load is just a leading problem. Work with your daughter and the pony to build a quality relationship and skills and they will both turn into cracker individuals and a team.

The difference between a pony and a great pony is just training. (Dr Andrew Mclean)

 

[honetpot]

It sounds like it has separation anxiety, its moved homes and has worked out what it can get away with. Our old pony had this, loading him some days was no fun, he used to try and wipe you out on the gates or run over you, he always had a bridle on to load, if their were two adults often he would just walk straight on, but if there was just me and my daughter he would be a right ! Pulling and pushing you to get back to the field or their friends is another symptom. When we moved yards it took me three months to get him in to a stable without jumping out or mowing me over. I knew the pony, and he had not shown the behaviour with his previous owners, I had loaded with her for PC, seen him on the yard etc. Once I had worked out why he was doing it, it was relatively easy to prevent, and as my daughter got older she got stronger
I would try to get it into a routine, of bringing him in every day for a snack, whether he is ridden or not and only hack out with company and only handle her yourself until you have sorted it out.

 

[Red-1]

If it was a private sale, I don't think you have much chance because the pony was good for 2 weeks.

You were warned that she pulled for grass, yet still led her in a halter despite the fact that she was being disobedient and pulling for grass. Then she broke free whilst in a halter and so a naughty evasion was (re)born.

An owner 4 years ago is not too relevant as a lot of training could have been achieved in 4 years and, at first, the pony was exactly as described.

I have had a couple of these types, and even when 'cured' I still prefer to always lead in a bit/headstall as they always 'know' the evasion and it can re-surface.

If you found evidence that the pony was recently naughty with the previous owners, then that would change things, but finding that out is different to having evidence. Plus, you have to have evidence of what the old owner told you, which, as far as I can tell, is accurate to what the pony did for the first 2 weeks.

Going forward, I would always lead in a bit/headstall and experiment with what way to attach the rope/chain. I would do it so the chain links back to itself on the bit, so if the pony pulls, the chain tightens up on the chin groove. If that fails, have a lunge line over the head from one bit ring to the other. I would sort this out before your daughter continues to ride, as the pony could get equally out of hand.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

I think the first thing is to stop thinking youve been missold a pony, you become so focussed on blaming others that you stop looking logically at the situation for what it is.

If you were to do a search, there are so many threads that are "missold a horse etc". It seems to be the immediate thing that a buyer will go to when they cant handle what is going on.

You've has the pony 6 weeks, that is an extremely small amount of time, horses and ponies are sentient beings and I wish that people would really think about this. The pony has been in their previous home four years and now has been plucked from the environment where they knew their home, their owners, their routine etc, the pony is now with new people, doesnt know them, isnt used to their new surroundings and doesnt perhaps understand/have a routine which suits them.

There is a mile of difference between a "bogging off" to a bolt. A bolt is where an equine will run for its life, often attempting to go through solid objects with no regard for its safety. What you have described is simply bogging off/tanking off, this is generally through lack of confidence in the equine (themselves or lack of confidence in the handler).

Getting in touch with a previous owner four years ago won’t help you. Who knows how they handled the pony, how they rode it etc.

Look at the picture in front of you, you have a pony that is currently very unsettled and you need to look at how you help the pony. You say you’ve had horses 30ish years, it can be a learning curve to us all when a pony is unsettled. Ive has horses over 40 year’s and when my latest mare arrives, she tested me almost to the limit as she was so unsettled, never once did I blame the seller that she was mis-sold, despite the fact that she was behaving in ways I would never have guessed she could from what I’d seen when I tried her. She was an extreme case as she had been in a very busy setting and when we bought her we moved her to home where is was very peaceful and she had company (something it seems she hasn’t had previously) It took her almost two years of consistent handling to reveal the lovely girl we saw when we viewed her.

I spoke to the previous owner and he’d never seen any behaviour like it before from her and I well believed it, as I spent time to think about the whole picture and my focus is her and why she was unhappy. He was absolutely 100% in what he said her behaviour was when I viewed and what she is back to now.

What in trying to explain is that it can take some equines so long to get used to a new home and your job is to help the pony. If the pony is tanking off back to the field then it has separation issues and is trying to get back to other horses (safety in numbers) as they have no confidence in who is handling them.

Break everything down into smaller pieces for the pony.

Catch, reward, let go.
Catch, reward, take out of the field, put back in field, let go.
Catch, reward, take out of the field, take to the yard, give them a groom, reward, take back to the field, let go.

Do one stage for a few days and then move on, depending on how the pony copes. Go backwards if needed until the pony is comfortable.

When I saw reward, I would use a scratch or a head rub, I wouldn’t bring treats into the mix.

With consistent handling and using the approach that the pony is telling you it is very unhappy with its current situation, I would eat my own hat if in a few weeks you are not seeing major changes in the pony and it’s behaviour.

I don’t like to anthropomorphise but imagine you being taken from who you think is your family, being taken to a strange house, being dumped with strangers who want to fuss you but you’re not sure about them, you don’t know meal times, you don’t understand how the family works, you don’t understand your place in the family, you don’t know if this is your family where you will stay or will you be moved on to another family, you’re not sure you understand them as they speak different from your previous family and their actions are different.

You need to help your pony and you will then see the real pony underneath that you bought in certain.

Every equine I’ve ever had over the years has taken different time to settle and different adjustments to make it happy, my mare is an exception as it took her a long time but I want you to understand every equine is different, give the pony time and consistent handling.

Best of luck x

 

[saspo26]

Bolting is a very specific action and a word misused significantly. It sounds like the pony has found an evasion, used it successfully once, twice and then it is now a learned behaviour it can pull out whenever it is faced with something it doesn’t want to comply with or most likely, it is scared or uncertain due to the cues it is getting from handler/rider.

No pony is perfect. They don’t exist. You have failed to do the appropriate level of due diligence to determine whether your daughter and family have the appropriate level of skill for this pony. It is not the sellers fault.

Get quality help in training. Get some groundwork lessons from a qualified professional. Solve the leading problem first. The failure to load is just a leading problem. Work with your daughter and the pony to build a quality relationship and skills and they will both turn into cracker individuals and a team.

The difference between a pony and a great pony is just training. (Dr Andrew Mclean)

Your missing the point! I am experienced with horses/ponies over 30yrs like I keep saying I wanted a pony that was good to handle no vices as my daughter is quite novice I wasn’t looking for a pony where I needed a trainer etc to sort out a behaviour issue I wanted a straight pony easy to do!!! I explained this too the lady and said she was perfect pony! It’s not just the other previous owner I have contacted 3 others back till she was 4yrs old and they have all pretty much said she has done the same thing!!! If I wanted a “project” pony I would have advertised for one she told me the pony would be perfect for my daughter to build her confidence obviously not the case!

 

[Ownedby4horses]

I have to say I think you're missing the point in BA's post. Regardless of your "experience", you are struggling to handle the pony and there is absolutrly no shame in having to deal with something new and asking for help, regardless of how long you have had horses.

Ive had horses over 40 years and am experienced but I know I am still learning every single day. You really need to stop, draw a breath and look at the wider picture. In the wrong hands, any equine can be misconstrued as "difficult" , all the previous owners youve contacted could well have been claiming to be experienced but are not. Forget the past! Look at the pony in front of you and be open to what you as the pony's owner needs to do to help the pony.

 

[HashRouge]

Your missing the point! I am experienced with horses/ponies over 30yrs like I keep saying I wanted a pony that was good to handle no vices as my daughter is quite novice I wasn’t looking for a pony where I needed a trainer etc to sort out a behaviour issue I wanted a straight pony easy to do!!! I explained this too the lady and said she was perfect pony! It’s not just the other previous owner I have contacted 3 others back till she was 4yrs old and they have all pretty much said she has done the same thing!!! If I wanted a “project” pony I would have advertised for one she told me the pony would be perfect for my daughter to build her confidence obviously not the case!

The problem is you will need to prove that the horse was "mis-sold" to you. Now you have obviously contacted previous owners and think you have proved the case, but so far you have no information about what the pony was like in its previous home. It is possible it never behaved like this due to the particular routine it was in/ way it was handled and it was there for four years, so a not insignificant amount of time. Had you bought the horse from a dealer it would be simpler but because you bought from a private seller unfortunately I don't think there is anything you can do to make her take the horse back. I suppose you could try the small claims court, but you'd really need to have evidence that the pony was mis-sold.