Mis Sold Pony

[shortstuff99]

I do get the OP's point, I can deal with behavioural issues, even rearers, but I would like to know that's what I was dealing with before I bought the horse/pony. Then I can make the decision if that was something I wanted to deal with rather then having it suddenly appear on me.

However, being a private sale it maybe hard to prove and that's the issue. If you really don't like the pony you could sell her to another home?

 

[Roxylola]

Have you contacted the seller? You mention all the previous owners but nothing with them.
Regardless of what anyone here thinks and regardless of what your solicitor thinks you are or are not entitled to if they at this point are point blank refusing to take it back even if you take them to court and were to win somehow that has to be enforced.
Realistically I'd be getting in touch with them and dealing with them pleasantly if possible rather than solicitors. If they're dodgy you likely wont get your money back anyway even if it goes to court etc so if they arent playing I'd be more inclined to spend the solicitors fees on improving the pony and/or swallow the loss and sell it to someone suitable.

 

[maya2008]

You would need proof it was like this in the home you bought it from. They may have addressed the behaviour when they bought it and it may have been perfect for them thereafter.

 

[be positive]

Your missing the point! I am experienced with horses/ponies over 30yrs like I keep saying I wanted a pony that was good to handle no vices as my daughter is quite novice I wasn’t looking for a pony where I needed a trainer etc to sort out a behaviour issue I wanted a straight pony easy to do!!! I explained this too the lady and said she was perfect pony! It’s not just the other previous owner I have contacted 3 others back till she was 4yrs old and they have all pretty much said she has done the same thing!!! If I wanted a “project” pony I would have advertised for one she told me the pony would be perfect for my daughter to build her confidence obviously not the case!

If the pony has a history of bad behaviour but has been settled, happy and good for the past 4 years she has not really been mis sold, it is unfortunate that the move has triggered the old evasion, it can happen and it is a shame but I think you need to look forward rather than drag up her past, I have known 1 or 2 ponies with similar behaviour on the ground that were perfect ridden, that could be managed with a little thought, preparation and care if the owner is experienced and able to think slightly outside the box.

What price she sold for in the past has no bearing on now and is totally irrelevant, what is relevant is what she has been doing for the last 4 years and that should have been checked before you bought her, if she has not been doing PC, hacking, going out and about and the seller has lied you may have grounds to push on further but I think it may be hard to prove she knew there were issues that a move would set off, she bought her as a project and may have genuinely believed she was now a really safe pony.

I am normally fairly quick to defend the buyer but in this case I feel you are letting her history cloud your views, are using the word bolt far too freely rather than looking at why the pony is taking off, she may feel very unsettled, be lacking confidence in how you handle her and possibly not relaxed in the field/ yard, give her a chance, she has her good points that may outweigh her bad one, if she settles she may be a safe ride for your daughter remember you liked her enough to buy her so look at the positives not just the negative.

 

[Trouper]

I think you can tell from the replies here that we have doubts about the fact that you were "mis-sold". If you have an appointment with an equine solicitor then I think you have to be guided by their advice.

 

[Shay]

Proving a horse is mis sold, especially from a private dealer, is long and complex. And in the meantime you have a pony in front of you to care for.

You might want to speak to an equine solicitor, or to BHS Gold if you are a member and see what evidence you might need. I presume you did all the due dilligence things before you bought the pony - spoke to the DC, checked the declared results etc? Make certain you save all that. Obviously keep the vetting record. If you did not have the stored bloods done at the time do them now.

An assessment from a qualified instructor is going to be an important part of the peice. Make sure they know that thier assessment may be provided to a court in due course. Ideally use an instructor who knew the pony in the previous home - you should be able to reach them through the DC.

If you have not already spoken to the previous owner to ask for a return do that too - you might not have any rights to return, but some previous owners will take back in order to protect the pony. Be aware you may not get all your money back and make sure you have all the relevant records / paperwork before you loose the pony!

You say that tack / back / teeth have all been checked - again keep the records. Email the people who did the checks and ask them to note thier findings for you in writing. It might be worth a lameness check - but that will depend on the vetting results. Although to be fair this does sound more like a typical pony evasion than a pain related matter. She has learned she can bog off - so she does.

If the seller will accept a return then so be it - if you loose money on the deal you will have the records to sort it out in court later. If they refuse you have a pony in front of you that you have to deal with. You might not want to get professional help - but you might also have no choice.

A a parent too - ponies can be something else. And a mare to boot! I have a life long experience of horses (and I suppose ponies since I was a child for part of that!) And DD's ponies were often something new. A couple were nearly too much for us - one was. Ponies develop evasion behaviours in response to being ridden / handled by children and these can be very different from what a horse might do. In no small part becuase horses are not generally handled by smaller folk! Ponies tend to be brighter, more able to work out a problem and to benefit from a solution. Mares too lead the herd and look to the new owner to prove thier right to lead in a way a gelding doesn't. We've had ponies prone to bogging off. DD's first and otherwise entirely perfect PC machine was known to drag her from time to time - we stopped it and persist in stopping it. He's 29 now and been with us over 20 years and he will still evade if he thinks he can get away with it! It does just sound like she was known for the "drag and pull" type of evasion and has simply developed an extension of it. Once she can't win she will stop. If you need a professional to assist you in finding a way that she can't win (and by the way this does not and must not involve violence or agressive restraint - that will only make things worse. You have to out think them!) then there is absolutely no shame it recognising that and getting the help you need.

 

[honetpot]

Your missing the point! I am experienced with horses/ponies over 30yrs like I keep saying I wanted a pony that was good to handle no vices as my daughter is quite novice I wasn’t looking for a pony where I needed a trainer etc to sort out a behaviour issue I wanted a straight pony easy to do!!! I explained this too the lady and said she was perfect pony! It’s not just the other previous owner I have contacted 3 others back till she was 4yrs old and they have all pretty much said she has done the same thing!!! If I wanted a “project” pony I would have advertised for one she told me the pony would be perfect for my daughter to build her confidence obviously not the case!

I think you have missed the point that even a 'good' pony will push boundaries. My daughters first pony they could tack up themselves from the age of seven, apart from lifting on the saddle. At PC, he would always bomb off to the back of the ride, he did not like being left, he would pull faces and frighten them when he didn't want to be caught when they were small. It once took an hour to load him, as the pocket rocket decided he would rather drag me across the field than get on to go home. 98% of the time he would be the perfect picture of a childs first pony, he did PC, he hunted, he would stand and let them fiddle, but sometimes he would 'try it on'.Its actually not trying its on, its something that's triggered that behaviour. It was up to me as the adult to manage him, and more importantly teach my then small children that he wasn't trying to kill them and usually there is something you can do to sort it. Once they get to a certain level of skill the problems diminish, and when you buy an outgrown pony usually the child has learned enough so it is going to be a 'good' pony.
Having ponies is a whole education in its self, they are smart and strong, they are the equine equivalent of the school child at the back of the class that want to hang out with their mates and eat sweets, and know every evasion of how to avoid work.
I have no idea how you are addressing this with your child, but I find being calm, and spending a lot of time hacking with them either on foot or ridden helps them and the pony.

 

[pansymouse]

Do you have access to a competent, ballsy rider that could give the pony a really good hard ride every week or so? Some ponies (and horses) seem to have a need for speed which needs feeding periodically; once that itch is scratched they will settle to being perfectly civilised for less experienced riders or schooling/more precision work. As a teen I would often ride younger childrens' ponies at the request of the parents to give them a good run and calm them down. Even now my own horse needs to be galloped regularly to settle and focus on other work.

 

[Ossy2]

It’s a difficult one and I’m certainly not going to offer legal advice as you’ve said you have an appointment for that with a solicitor. There’s just a few things that I can’t quite understand, you were loading for a show when it pulled away, you must have had some confidence in the pony to be taking it to a show within 6 weeks of owning? You say there are no photos of the pony on their social media, did you not ask for photos and details of the pony doing stuff with their kids when you tried it?
Potentially you have been had here but in that case there must have been some serious luck on the sellers side and bad luck on yours for the pony to behave so well on the rides from your viewings.
Did you have the pony vetted? And did they take bloods at the vetting?

 

[rascal]

It does sound like the pony is taking the mick. You need a good experienced instructor.

 

[MissTyc]

I've just caught up with this fascinating thread. The one thing that really stood out to me was the unsuitability of some of the environment. By that I means the pony running off down a road, going into other people's garden (jumping their little gate), etc ... I can think of three ponies on my yard fit the descriptions of this naughty mare but the big difference is they're always behind a gate. So when kid #1 goes skiing across the yard as the pony runs off, the worst that happens is that kid #1 is flat on their face and the pony ends up eating some grass. The ponies soon learn that kid #1 and adult #2 can't tell them what to do but that kid #2 and adult #1 can indeed tell them what's what.

The pony may or may not have behaved like this in her last home, but you would need solid evidence to win a misselling case, and you've had some great advice about the evidence and experts you'll need on your side. The two weeks of good behaviour are a problem to me, as there are so many ponies and horses that will coast along on learned good manners until they realise that no one is going to stop them from doing what they want, like running down the road.

 

[MagicMelon]

What evidence do you have the lady said the pony was perfect to handle etc? Do you have emails? If it was all done verbally you'll struggle to prove she lied to you...

Its really weird the pony seemed to behave fine the first 2 weeks. To me, that suggests its pushing its boundaries now. Also, some horses can be nightmares with certain people. I had a Welsh Cob who was very bolshy on the ground when I got him, I worked very hard on him and he was great, had him for several years, then I sold him but I warned the lady he would probably test her. He was doing horrific things to her that he never ever did to me (pinning her against walls, biting her, breaking leadropes etc.) so I took him back. Sold him to a 13 yr old girl who he totally accepted and she never had any issues with him at all! Maybe the last people genuinely didnt have any problems.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Horses and ponies are quick to suss out what is OK and what is not - the boundaries of their handlers.

I know several cases where ponies have changed hands to new owners and they just expected the same manners to stay installed without the pony ever questioning. Of course, the pony questioned and was met with a surprised and unprepared response from the handler. After that point, its one nill to the pony and in many cases it continued in that direction.

However, when the new owners firmly explained to the pony that no you cannot walk faster than me/pull forwards/back/sideways when leading, then the pony stopped escalating (eg pulling to grass) to see what it can get away with.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

It sounds like the pony has got away with something once so has tried it again and again, and so far has got the result they wanted every single time.

My mare is completely different for me compared to current and previous sharers, she runs to the gate when i call her but wouldn't be caught by the sharer for love nor treats. She knows what I expect from her because I set the boundaries from the get go and have maintained them ever since.

Ponies are far too clever for their own good and it sounds like this one is running circles around you! I would definitely pay for a professional to come help you, I did the same when a previous pony pulled away from me when lunging and learnt he would always win a pulling match against me! So the instructor taught me some techniques to outsmart the pony. Best of luck.

 

[paddy555]

I think if you were going to be successful in taking action (which may not be possibly anyway) you will have to show that the pony was difficult. I would contact the PC and get it's history for the last 4 years. If you don't and the pony doesn't really have a problem then the seller will certainly do this to prove you are wrong. You may find a pony who has been to every rally, done well or you may find it hasn't even been to a rally or ran off at the first one never to return. If it has hunted find out who with and ask about the behaviour. Same with shows or anything else she has done.
Prove it has a bad history not that it is simply being a testing pony in a new home.

If the seller won't take her back then I would sell. You say she jumps well so you seem to have a child's 2nd pony in a first pony home. However not even 1st ponies are all sweetness and light. They are ponies and "naughty" is in the job description. I don't think you can ever buy the perfect machine. You have to work to get used to each other and sometimes that takes a long time.