Miss-sold or 'settling in'

[Ambers Echo]

Just wondering really... when you get a new horse you have 30 days to return. But a lot of times horses will be unsettled when they arrive somewhere new.

A friend bought a 'safe, suitable for novice, no vices" pony who passed a 5 stage vetting but started bucking under saddle within a week. She tried to do the right thing - did ground work, checked saddle which did not fit, bought new saddle. 6 weeks later and pony was still a nightmare but it was too late to send back. Plus old owners blocked her and refused to communicate with her which rang alarm bells. So she sent it on sales livery and it was sold but sent back within a week for bucking the new owners off too. Now being sold for a song as a project as they do not have the experience to deal with it. (Novice child, non horsey mum). Out of pocket by thousands. Not to mention the emotional upset.

So when is it right to give it time and work through issues and when should you just say 'no' immediately if things go wrong very early on? And how many horses really do lose the plot and change behaviour significantly when they move? I have always worked them from day 1 and none has ever reacted badly to that but I appreciate I may have just got lucky. Curious about other people's experiences....

 

[blitznbobs]

With a novice child and a non horsey family - probably most will take the proverbial

 

[Fred66]

As soon as it starts showing a vice that you don't want to live with, you should notify them that you are not happy with it.

Open dialogue and look at possible mitigation options immediately and reject prior to any return period if it hasn't improved or if they are not willing to discount or extend the warranty period

 

[Pearlsasinger]

With a novice child and a non horsey family - probably most will take the proverbial

If it's truly suitable for a novice, it will be good mannered in those circumstances, it might grab a mouthful of grass when being led or something similarly cheeky but it won't be bucking to get the rider off.

 

[ester]

for a novice rider there are certain things I wouldn't give time to.
Bucking would be one. Even if saddle not ideal there are many suitable for novice horses who would never buck.

 

[J&S]

A true pony suitable for novices should be well settled within the 30 days. Our new "companion/light hack" was carrying a 5 year old within a week. After a couple of days you would have thought she had been here all her life!

 

[ozpoz]

Poor pony. Did the owner investigate the reason for her bucking, which is often pain? It is a shame for them but how could a non-horsy mum do any groundwork which would help the situation?
People often underestimate how much damage a poorly fitting saddle can do, and how much time, input and work it takes to put it right.

 

[alainax]

As above, a true novice suitable horse shouldn’t dramatically change. Our lead rein welsh a didn’t seem to notice she had been moved! Toddler took her her first hack to visit the heavy farm machinery ( cause 2 year old boys do that!) didn’t bat an eye lid.

If your buying something a bit further up the game, a bit more highly strung, might mean *some*take a bit of settling in.

Not all mind you, my big guy is very flashy, very forward, plenty of impulsion, but unphased by yard moves, as long as there is food.


The novice owners however could be a huge issue. I’ve seen “good” horses take the absolute utter piss our novice handlers.

 

[be positive]

If it's truly suitable for a novice, it will be good mannered in those circumstances, it might grab a mouthful of grass when being led or something similarly cheeky but it won't be bucking to get the rider off.

I agree, having sold a few and been involved in buying most genuine horses or ponies will try a few cheeky tricks but should not become really difficult, I think too many buyers are extremely green going out to buy with very little experience, go and view alone, believe everything they are told and end up potentially with something unsuitable.

Many sellers seem to think they can gloss over the truth, many say they want 5* homes but in reality just want the cash and will sell to the first bidder even if they are inexperienced, it is hard to send something back just because it "hasn't settled" which seems to be an easy excuse for many bad mannered uneducated equines nowadays.

Most that come here have been settled within hours, in work the same, or next day and are rarely different to what we thought we were getting, there can be a few teething problems but they are usually minor.

 

[PeterNatt]

I do not know why they thought that they had only 30 days to return the pony as this is not the case. If the pony has been miss-described in the advert (even if it is a private sale) then you have a right to return the pony and get a full refund plus any costs incurred in keeping the pony.

 

[{138171}]

Does my head in! You buy a horse and it's not suitable then it's your own problem. This culture of 'send it back' gives me the raving hump.

 

[be positive]

Does my head in! You buy a horse and it's not suitable then it's your own problem. This culture of 'send it back' gives me the raving hump.

If it is not suitable because you have been lied to or sold something that is not anywhere near to being as described, which happens fairly often, then it should be possible to send it back, even more so if bought from a dealer.

Someone that posts on here regularly bought a "schoolmistress" that was very different once she took it home, further research showed it had been a project horse that had done very little, was a known rearer, the seller had given it a bit of work smartened it up, made up a fictitious history and it was sold on completely dishonestly, the poster did eventually manage to send it back and get some money returned.

They may be living creatures with minds of their own but a well educated horse will usually remain mannerly when moved and a person buying a schoolmaster should at least get a rideable equine even if they require some help to get the best out of it.

 

[VRIN]

Horses are not machines. A change in environment can unsettle the calmest of horses. It is possible that there have been 'mis truths' told but its also possible that the horse is struggling in the new environment.

 

[oldie48]

I am an older rider who started riding very late in life who has bought lots of horses over the years. I have always been totally honest about my ability and have always taken a trainer or more experienced person to view before I have committed to a purchase. In my very humble opinion well schooled horse with a good temperament do not turn into lunatics with a change of home. they might be a bit sharper (often they are quieter) but the manners on the ground and ridden have either stayed the same or been fine in a very short time. I only had one horse that I had to move on because of misbehaviour and it was the second horse I bought (interestingly, I later found out that it had bucked a previous potential buyer off).He was fine in company but had separaton issues that were too difficult for me to deal with, I am confident the seller knew this and I was a bit naive. A friend recently bought a horse to hunt, she has owned horses for the last 35 years, is no longer young and was very clear about what she needed and good on the ground was important. The horse is a complete nightmare to handle and she has returned it after a week. If a horse is suitable for a novice it's temperament should be fairly easy. We have had horse over the years competing at quite high levels (not quiet hacks) and not suitable rides for novices but I've never had anything that I felt unsafe handling in normal circumstances.

 

[Batgirl]

I bought an ex riding school, novice ride who was perfect for me, I had him a year. I moved yards with him and he turned into a monster, rearing, bucking, napping. I moved him back to my original yard. Dream horse.

My friend sold a competition pony that won a lot, went to national champs etc. Easy to ride, hack etc. It as returned 9 months later after it reared with them, turned out to be novicey owners that had hardly ridden it, hadn't had any lessons etc etc. My friend took it back for her reputations sake instead of arguing the toss and sold it on to a perfect home where it hasn't put a foot wrong.

There are so many reasons a horse might change. Unless deliberate lying is discovered buyer beware on private sales and in my opinion the same should be for professional sales (or at least reduce teh amount of time people can come back, they are not fridges!)

 

[tankgirl1]

I bought an ex riding school, novice ride who was perfect for me, I had him a year. I moved yards with him and he turned into a monster, rearing, bucking, napping. I moved him back to my original yard. Dream horse.

Sometimes I think people vastly underappreciate what an ordeal moving yards is for a horse, especially with a new owner and new routine into the bargain.

 

[TheHairyOne]

I would have always jumped to the 'seller hid something' thought if my own horse hadn't turned into an utterly vile hacker after a yard move. He was (and is now!) a fabulous hack, on his own or in company and had been since he was backed.

This yard move turned him into a nappy horror. Getting him out of the drive was a mission, getting him past a bend on the small country road was nigh on impossible (planting, reversing - didnt care about the ditch we ended up in, bucking, hopping about, turning for home - everything but full blown rearing and actually buggering off).

I ended up doing a lot of hacking walkig backwards (after some experimentation) but least it was the direction I wanted to go. He is 99% back to his amazing hacking ways at my new yard, and the very odd occasion he thinks about it, about 3 steps backwards and he gets over it.

But honestly, if I had sold him and someone told me about the behaviour I would have blamed them!!!

 

[JanetGeorge]

Horses are not machines. A change in environment can unsettle the calmest of horses. It is possible that there have been 'mis truths' told but its also possible that the horse is struggling in the new environment.

Or less than great management! i have probably sold 90+ backed horses since I stared breeding 16 years ago (and quite a few non-backed.) I try my hardest to find the 'right' new owner and if it doesn't work, home they come if it is in a reasonable time frame. The wierdest one I sold as a 10 year old (I had initially kept him because he would have been a great hunter for OH - but once he was ready, husband had given up.) And he really WAS a dope on a rope. He went off to Scotland - the longest journey of his life, of course. Within a week, new owner was on the phone - he was attacking other horses and people (allegedly) in the field, he was crazy and she couldn't do ANYTHING with him. Obviously a degree of separation anxiety - badly handled - who knows. So had him back and he came home - still a dope on a rope - just a good 60 kg lighter. 3 months later, he went to a new owner, near London (another longish trip. I had warned her he migt be anxious on arrival etc, No, he wasn't! He was a dope on a rope, lol and 4 years later, he is still a much loved dope on a rope , thankfully.

Another much younger mare went to Scotland at 4. She definitely showed signs of separation anxiety - new owner let me know bu assured me she wasn't too worried and took her quietly - gave her time to settle. She was 100% back to normal within 2 weeks - happy horse, owner, AND breeder.

 

[huskydamage]

Sometimes I think people vastly underappreciate what an ordeal moving yards is for a horse, especially with a new owner and new routine into the bargain.

This. I've had the same pony for years just me and her, moved her to several different yards in that time. At one particular yard she went nuts for well over a month. She just constantly ran around, even tied uo would trot on the spot/sideways. I could do nothing with her but throw tack on and leap into the saddle, with her flying out the yard with me still clinging on the side 😂. If id bought her like that I would have thought she'd been drugged! She just obviously hated that yard and took a REALLY long time to calm down there.

 

[The-Bookworm]

Just wondering really... when you get a new horse you have 30 days to return.

Do you, news to me.
I've owned three, took them on and that was that. What came up I dealt with, maybe it comes down to how much you pay for a horse. If you pay a lot you expect a lot. But they are not robots.
One I couldn't catch for three weeks, but I did see him charge across the field in his headcollar because the owner couldnt hold him. Friend said he's gonna need a bit of work then.

Realistically if that saddle is the cause they still have a sore back. That needs physio and some time off, not just another saddle put on.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I've taken a punt on both a youngster and a "winter project"; my choice, my decision, if it goes Tits up then that's my problem. I've been around horses for a while and whilst not terribly confident in certain situations I have access to professional help should it be needed.

But what really really riles me and gets my gander up is people who'll quite happily and knowingly sell something iffy to a novice who they know won't be able to deal with it. OR pass something on that is known to have a soundness issue.

 

[eahotson]

Poor pony. Did the owner investigate the reason for her bucking, which is often pain? It is a shame for them but how could a non-horsy mum do any groundwork which would help the situation?
People often underestimate how much damage a poorly fitting saddle can do, and how much time, input and work it takes to put it right.

Amen to that.I know how long it has taken to sort out the damage a poorly fitting saddle and harsh and incorrect schooling has done to my welsh cob.

 

[Antw23uk]

If i where to buy from a dealer I would have that horse off the lorry, tacked up and doing everything i want it for within the first two days (out to a clinic, hacked alone, taken XC schooling, lunged, clipped, bathed etc) and if it wasn't fit for purpose it would go back BUT as long as it has self preservation and doesn't want to kill itself and can do everything i want it for, i can live with a quirky horse but I see myself as a confident knowledgeable horse owner.

I got my mare on a LWVTB but from a friend. I must have threatened to send her back about once or twice a week for the first couple of months, we just couldnt get on with each other although i got very good at disengaging her when she took off in hand with me (she would shoulder me off balance first, clever girl!) but we had our lightbulb moment, I changed my attitude to how i handled her and we have been inseparable ever since.

 

[ester]

I don’t underestimate how long it can take some horses to settle in. It took mine a year to settle properly when first purchased. However it would never have figured to him to buck, even with an ill fitting saddle or do anything else like that and I wouldn’t have sold him as a ‘novice ride’. So a true novice ride I wouldn’t expect it from either.

 

[Rowreach]

For many years I took in horses on schooling livery (quite often because the owners were having issues with them), and holiday livery when the owners who away. I didn't have weeks and months to allow horses to settle in! They were worked and assessed from day one!

Most of them breathed a sigh of relief that they were in a routine and getting on with things. Others clearly had issues which were causing problems, which could either be sorted or, in some sad cases, resulted in vet intervention and even euthanasia.

What was most interesting though, was people who bought a new horse, brought it to my yard for a few weeks to get going on it (schooling, lessons, hacking, the odd training show), and had no problems until they took it home, when suddenly the horse found itself with no routine or consistent, confident handling.

We all know there are dodgy sellers out there, but not all are dodgy and I'd hate to be a seller of horses. They are not cars.

 

[Antw23uk]

For many years I took in horses on schooling livery (quite often because the owners were having issues with them), and holiday livery when the owners who away. I didn't have weeks and months to allow horses to settle in! They were worked and assessed from day one!

Most of them breathed a sigh of relief that they were in a routine and getting on with things. Others clearly had issues which were causing problems, which could either be sorted or, in some sad cases, resulted in vet intervention and even euthanasia.

What was most interesting though, was people who bought a new horse, brought it to my yard for a few weeks to get going on it (schooling, lessons, hacking, the odd training show), and had no problems until they took it home, when suddenly the horse found itself with no routine or consistent, confident handling.

We all know there are dodgy sellers out there, but not all are dodgy and I'd hate to be a seller of horses. They are not cars.

Amen to that. I think new inexperienced owners are too quick to judge a horse as 'bad' when in fact its just not being read or listened to properly. I'm guilty of that (years telling geldings rather than asking like you do with mares)

 

[scats]

I always think with horses that it really does take a year to fully ‘know them’ in all situations. I’ve had Millie 7 months and I feel that I’m still learning things about her, but I know her much better than I did even just a few months ago. I’ve learnt that she’s much sharper in the winter and sometimes quite naughty to turnout and bring-in, which did not show itself at all in the summer but I have put it down to being in overnight and being much, much fitter than she was in the summer. There’s usually explanations for things, if people look hard enough.
The trouble with the majority of dealers is that the turn around needs to be pretty quick in order to make money on them. So in a lot of cases, they are making a judgment based on what they’ve experienced in the short time they’ve had it, and they might be being entirely truthful in that respect.

 

[whiteflower]

I just don't get all this 'send it back if it doesn't suit' mentality. As long as the seller has not clearly lied about the horses state of health or any serious vices I don't see why people should be able to decide it's not for them and give the horse back. They are animals not machines.

My first pony many many moons ago was brought as suitable for a beginner child, got her home and she was terrible with large vehicles and would p off away from them, was very strong and used to just do her own thing and used to tank off when being led. She didn't do this when we tried her so was clearly trying it on/unsettled/didn't like routeen. I didn't even consider she had been misold or druged or we had been lied to, we learnt how to ride her, bitted her appropriately for a strong pony and the very knowledgeable livery yard owner taught us how to deal with her correctly. She was my horse of a lifetime for 25 years.

I think a big thing missing now days is support for a knowledgeable yard owner who has the time and is willing to help. The set up of livery yards has changed very much over the years and I believe in most (not all) cases they aren't the supportive learning environment they used to be.

Now days inexperienced people will often buy a horse, it does something they don't expect and they have very little expertise around to fall back on therefore it's the horse/sellers fault and they must be 'returned'

There are always exceptions of course

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I do think owners dont appreciate what it can be like for a horse to move and alot of leisure horses these days dont do enough to give them that education before being sold. Leisure riders also often dont appreciate how bad it is for them as a rider/handler to only handle one horse for a long time. Personally, I find it takes a good year for me to get to know one because I am no longer handling lots of horses and only have so much time. As a kid it would always take me a while to get used to the next size up!

There's all sorts of valid reasons a horse may not settle well into a new yard/different environment or indeed owner.

 

[Greyhorse1]

It has taken me a year to work my mare out and at least 6 months for her to calm down from the move to me.
She was evil for months, aggressive, unsettled and herd bound but is fine now she’s been given time to work it all out.