Missold a horse advice please

Ownedby4horses said:
I also dont see an issue with lunging and leaning over if i came to see a horse I knew that had bucked off its orevious owner, its just a sensible move.
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I don’t agree with this. If they really believed the horse was actually safe, and had been riding it normally for a period of time, they’d just get on.
 
PatchyBabyHorse said:
I don’t agree with this. If they really believed the horse was actually safe, and had been riding it normally for a period of time, they’d just get on.
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I half agree and half disagree. Say it was my mare, I hop on every day without a care in the world because at the moment I know there is nothing wrong with her because she hasn't given me cause to think otherwise. BUT if she had just thrown a proper buck that would potentially unseat me (i.e. something very out of character) it would make me think something must be wrong. So either the old owners think there is something wrong because it is so out of character so were checking to see if her back was sore, or they know there is something wrong so were testing the waters before getting on. Posting the dealer/sellers name on a dodgy dealer fb page might help work out if their intentions are good or bad!

To be honest I haven't heard of many dodgy dealers that have actually come out to ride a horse they've sold!
 
JanetGeorge said:
I suppose every case is different - but the last time I acted as 'expert witness' in a case against a dealer, it was more than enough - 3 horses sold in one year. It made me aware that - as a breeder - the Courts would see me as a 'dealer'. But then, I have always taken back horses I sold, even after 6 months when the reason ws obviously a management 'fault' of the new owner.
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That's interesting to know! My understanding was that you had to prove the dealer was a business- so e.g. as a breeder that would usually be seen as a business, or riding school etc. But if someone with a few horses had to give them up for some reason and was selling multiple horses at once for this reason, I don't think they'd legally be classed as a dealer?

I always understood it could be difficult to prove someone was a dealer, especially if they were quite a small scale operation, so it's good to know that's not always the case.
 
one thing that did occur to me was is the horse cold backed. If the dealer realised this and that it had to be lunged first it may be an explanation as to why they did it. Have you tried warming up the back with a rug, saddling and then leading in hand/lunging for quite a while to get the horse really warmed up?
When you went to see the horse how was it saddled? was it in a stable, possibly they had removed a rug, did they just get it out of a field, slap a saddle on and get on immediately or was a a period of walking around, talking to you, lunging etc when the back could have warmed and loosened up without you realising it.
When you rode at home successfully was the back accidentally warmed up before you got on? you left it saddled for a while, led in hand a bit first, that type of thing?
Just a thought.
 
Any successful legal route will lean heavily on the written word rather than the spoken word. The sales advert must be clear in its statement describing the horse and the sales receipt needs to be similar and hopefully does not say 'sold as seen'.

Having just helped someone go through the court system for something very similar, I have learnt that not having everything in writing leaves the injured party very vulnerable, the sitting judge very unimpressed and the end result being a loss.
 
PatchyBabyHorse said:
I don’t agree with this. If they really believed the horse was actually safe, and had been riding it normally for a period of time, they’d just get on.
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How does the seller know what has and hasnt been done with the horse whilsts its been away, it is always better to be safe than sorry and if they genuinely had something to hide, they would be very unlikely to get on the horse themselves, apart from the fsct that most sellers if dodgy wouldnt even bother going to see the horse as they wouldnt want to implicate themselves further.
 
Michen said:
With a horse behaving dangerously and no idea why? The horse could be in immense pain. Having been through the courts with w misold horse the advice from a barrister and two solicitors- turn the horse away.
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That was your advice at the time for that particular case, it may not transfer to all other cases.

I think the OP is right to get her their own legal advice and hopefully a vet since we dont know what the issue is
 
Michen said:
Send a letter before action. May be enough to spur her in to action. If not, get two professionals to assess the horses ASAP and file a small claims court procedure. In the mean time turn the horse away.
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Agree with Michen, letter before action and Small Claims Court. Also go on Dodgy Dealers and Sellers Facebook site the Admin are pretty helpful in what to do in these cases.
 
I’ve had the vet and physio, he’s had a full MOT. they think he needs xrayed and treated for ulcers and they can’t see anything externally which probably means something sinister. If I bought from the field I would expect this but I am not treating a horse as bought as a ridden all rounder.
Having things in writing is good, as I approached this person with my own checklist of things and was told they had the perfect horse for me so that works very well.
I have spoken to BHS legal team and they agree I’m completely in my right. Have offered 10% off the asking price and they offer to sell for me which is NOT happening.
I’ve done a lot of research and spoken to a lot of people, I know I’m completely in my right and I am protected by a lot of consumer laws. I’m so frustrated that they can’t see they don’t have a leg to stand on. :(
 
Glad to hear you have proper advice. Equally glad to hear that view is that you are well within your legal rights - although I am not sure what rights you are asserting? Do you want to return the horse now for a full refund? Or do you want to keep the horse for a 90% refund?

Why have you offered to keep the horse for 10% of the purchase price? Why not just return and refund in full? You seem to be extending the situation when perhap you do not need to?
 
Jessie234 said:
I’ve had the vet and physio, he’s had a full MOT. they think he needs xrayed and treated for ulcers and they can’t see anything externally which probably means something sinister. If I bought from the field I would expect this but I am not treating a horse as bought as a ridden all rounder.
Having things in writing is good, as I approached this person with my own checklist of things and was told they had the perfect horse for me so that works very well.
I have spoken to BHS legal team and they agree I’m completely in my right. Have offered 10% off the asking price and they offer to sell for me which is NOT happening.
I’ve done a lot of research and spoken to a lot of people, I know I’m completely in my right and I am protected by a lot of consumer laws. I’m so frustrated that they can’t see they don’t have a leg to stand on. :(
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You have a written list of requirements and the vendor verbally telling you the horse ticks the boxes is not a written statement of fact provided by the vendor. To have a good case from a legal point of view you need to have the advert clearly stating facts that have proven not to be true.
 
I mean I am returning the horse for a lower price because I am going to lose a lot of money on this and I am trying to avoid the arguments. Sorry I’m not being clear my brain is going faster than my body!
Yes, I can use the list and check of points which I can prove to be untrue. I have spent my evening speaking to a solicitor and believe I have a very good case. It’s quite clear cut as he is not rideable.
Thanks for the advice guys
 
Oh sorry - my mistake. You are reurning the horse for a 90% refund. Almost certainly the right decision. You can argue the legal toss over the remaining 10% and any out of pocket costs later if you want to.

You've had a very bruising experience - I am sorry. I hope your next foray into horse owning is mmore successful. Take an experienced freind and always get a vetting!
 
Jessie234 said:
Thanks, I’m depressed from it all, doctors even signed me off work ☹️
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It’s a horrendously stressful experience when you buy a horse and something goes wrong. For your own wellbeing I would take the 90% refund and send the horse back as soon as possible. Take some time to recover before you start looking again, and if you can take anything positive from this it’s that you’ll be better prepared to find the right horse in the future.
 
Yes it is a very stressful situation to find yourself in, I know, I have been there. Fortunately we were able to prove that the horse had been drugged with bute and the dodgy dealer (well known lady) had to take the horse back and return our money. Fortunately for me my husband is a lawyer and he took her for nearly 3k in costs as we have travelled up from the South to Scotland. The dealer also gave me 6 bags of chaff and nuts which was all laced with bute know doubt to keep the horse going for a week. Fortunately I had only fed 4 and so had the remaining bags tested, they were both positive. Lesson learnt there for me.
 
This forum is always of interest to me. I have experienced so many of these modern-day challenges and dilemmas myself over recent years. (When it comes to buying horses, well ‘caveat emptor’ has been the rule since time immemorial – no matter who you buy them from - dealer, private, pony club mum…’). On the whole, it’s all about the ££££s, not the horses. (Same goes for the ‘experts’).

I was in the saddle not long after I could walk (mother’s fault). Back then, in the early 70s, it was rare to hear of horses/ponies having what sound like nervous breakdowns. Things just seemed to be so much simpler back then. Something seems to have gone a bit wrong in the last 30 – 40 years. Different breeding strategies (more blood/WB), different horse management, different land management, loss of the old nags men and women – the list goes on.

So where does this leave the ‘unlanded’ amateur who just wants a straightforward relationship/experience with yer average ned? Up a gumtree, probably! Ultimately, it will revert to the pastime of the rich and/or landed. (I feel the signs are already there).

It really saddens me to hear of so many shattered (realistic) dreams, and even more, of so many repressed, unhappy horses. I would love to know if anyone has any practical solutions.
 
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