Monday morning musings - brains or ability?

[tatty_v]

Just some idle Monday morning musings…

I rode my 22 year old in the school this morning for the first time in ages (he’s enjoying a life of largely hacking these days) and the contrast between him and the new(ish) boy was chalk and cheese.

My old boy may not be the most talented at flatwork (he’d much rather be jumping!) but he is just so *smart* that he’d figured every exercise out almost immediately and cracked on with it. In 15 minutes we’d finished what took me 45 minutes yesterday with our other one. He’s also a fabulous hack - brave, self sufficient, fast when you want it and very sane. My FIL always describes him as having “spirit”! This isn’t to say he hasn’t been difficult over the years (because he has at times been a total nightmare!) but his issues have usually been on the ground and to do with separation anxiety (his Achilles heel) and his ability to jump a 5 bar gate at will if he doesn’t want to be where you’ve left him…

By contrast our newer boy has more ability and lots of potential, particularly with his flatwork, but is hampered by his tendency towards anxiety, overthinking and his habit of spooking at anything nature related. I spend a lot of time hoof-holding and encouraging him. When we do get things right it’s a great feeling, but it’s hard to properly relax and enjoy it because it feels less like teamwork and more like nannying! He’s like this with my super relaxed and very confident and capable OH too so it’s not just me. He’s also a slightly dicey hack with unpredictable spooks followed by a mini breakdown where you have to convince him he’s alright ? yet on the ground he’s a complete poppet, so so easy!

So it got me thinking, as our budget in this new world is never going to stretch to getting both brains and ability in the same horse (!), if you had to choose, which would you go for? And if you would go for brains, how do you assess that in the short time you have with a horse when purchasing?

 

[Squeak]

I'd go for attitude over everything. If the horse wont work with you and try then it's far more of an uphill battle especially if you pair that with exceptional brains or talent.

Possibly from your description you're putting attitude in with brains though so in that case I'd go for brains.

 

[Tarragon]

I like brains and attitude - I like a thinking horse that works things out and then makes the right choices and remembers. To me, it the difference between a toddler and a 5 year old. A thinking horse is more like the 5 year old, someone you can reason with and communicate with, but also someone who knows when you are on dodgy ground with your request and won't forget much. A horse that is more like a toddler is one that overreacts, hasn't got the language skills or the attention span to understand your requests and is easily distracted.

 

[JGC]

I've had two horses who would absolutely try there heart out for you but no natural paces, suppleness, etc., two that had all the ability to go PSG, but not the attitude. I got way further with the first two than the latter!

 

[Peglo]

I would always pick brains. But I will never have any need of real talent. It would be wasted on me.

my first pony would not school. She didn’t see the point and wouldn’t do it but she was a fantastic hack and so safe. I was happy to hack as she was happy and for me that makes all the difference. She’s a clever pony.

ETA my current one is the same as JCG’s first 2. Willing and tries but she isn’t naturally talented

 

[Ratface]

Brains, for me: all my horses/ponies have had attitude, but if we got into a sticky situation, they and the current one would/will always (so far!) get me out of it.

 

[milliepops]

brains for me too.

I love a smart horse even if they aren't the most talented, i find them the most fun to work with.

My welshie is super smart, it meant she learned bad things really quickly too, but I find her very engaging to train and she doesn't miss a thing, the harder the exercise the better she got as she seems to enjoy learning things.
My loan WB has talent but is a flibbertygibbert, his brain is whirling around in a most unhelpful way so he is hard to work with.

It was interesting seeing my homebred develop. she was smart as a foal and is really switched on at 2. her mum is a bit away with the fairies by comparison the young horse i got to wean her with is nowhere near as quick as her, mentally, and i find him less appealing, though i think she will be much more challenging than him to back.

 

[Wishfilly]

Sometimes clever horses can work against you- and they can find themselves things to worry about! Something that is onside and wants to please is what I'd prefer, even if they take a few more tries for things to "click". The really fast learners can also be very fast to learn bad habits!

That said, I have ridden one horse who was downright thick- he's in many ways lovely and nice to ride out hacking (because nothing ever bothers him) but jumping him down e.g. a grid could be quite tricky and in some cases nervewracking because he'd do all sorts of odd things with his feet. I'd never have wanted to take him over a fixed fence!

In terms of jumping (and hacking over rough country etc) it definitely helps if they have a good sense of self preservation!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Rather than brains, I would say, common-sense and trainability come tops for me. Too brainer horse brings its own problems.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

My two are polar opposites. My 12 year old cob is very switched on and clever, I've not had chance to test his "ability" at any given discipline yet but he's "fun"...in a very loose sense of the word on occasion
The 7 year old Connie x Cob is as dumb as a box of rocks, he has just one brain cell that dings around his head like a Windows screensaver ??? Again, not really had chance to test any kind of talent for anything with him.
As far as general life and handling etc goes, while I do love an easy life, I think I'd get bored with the younger one if I didn't have the other guy to spice things up a bit. In my (limited) experience I think I'd go for brains over talent, purely for entertainment value lol

 

[Caol Ila]

I always buy temperament. I like clever horses, who can learn easily, but above all, I want them to be nice, kind people. However green it is, I aim for that. I'm also picky about conformation, which I suppose ties into ability. I want good clean legs, with correct enough angles and straight enough movement. After working my a*rse off to keep Gypsum sound through a weak SI area for 21 years, I also didn't want any more loose-coupled horses.

A friend was asking me how I would handle a horse rearing, striking, and kicking out at your head on the lunge line. I think I said, "Uhhh..Make her go forward, very forward," but my real, honest answer was, "Not end up in that situation in the first place! I buy kind but green horses with no natural inclination to try that, and then I train them carefully so they don't." I did not, however, say that.

 

[palo1]

Brains for me, every time!! I don't need a particularly talented horse in terms of movement/jumping ability etc but I love working with switched on horses. My senior horse radiates intelligence but he also has attitude and believes he is right about everything so he can be a bit of a challenge. My Welshie is very smart too; picks things up super quickly and seems to really enjoy learning new stuff but hasn't got quite so much attitude as the gelding so it feels very different!! Our other Arab x gelding is clearly very, very brainy but is also super laid-back and generally doesn't feel the need to do 'learning' as he has the ability to get everything he wants for a happy life and is talented enough to not have to work at much at all. All very different but I love the brains component of each one

 

[My_breadbagel]

I bought mine for personality if I’m being honest. He was a little argumentative (if you say “left” he wants to go right) and a bully. But he was very switched off back then. He didn’t expect anything nice from people. He didn’t know that people could be loving, or kind, or gentle. but I always knew that under the brash, rude, bully of a horse that he was that deep down he was a teddy bear. Five years on and he’s a lady’s ride for the most part, and loves to have a cuddle. He gets his canter leads muddled sometimes, can’t jump very well, and does a good dressage test on his finest days, but I wouldn’t trade him for the world. He’s not very “talented”, but there’s someone actually in there, who cares about me, and wants nothing more than to be loved. Of course he’s cleaver; he gestures at the fence when I haven’t moved it for grazing, or talks to me through my reins when out hacking, but not in the way that I think you mean.
he’s more of a pet anyways if I’m being honest, and he’s talented at that. I love watching him play with zips and tell me which rug he wants on. I never knew horses could be so cleaver until I met him.

 

[J&S]

I like a horse (or dog for that matter) who is "co-operative", I would also describe it as a horse "who knows which side his bread is buttered"! To be like this they do not need to be talented as they will try hard to please you.

 

[Caol Ila]

The pro trainer who worked with my Highland for about two months told his ex-owner that he was "slow to process things." The ex-owner then told me that he wasn't the quickest horse, mentally. But during our test rides, I could feel him responding to things I asked and learning. After two rides, I had steering!

When overwhelmed, he mentally shuts down, retreats into his own space, and then obviously doesn't learn anything. This must have been a coping mechanism he learned when captured, while some of his fellow ferals were more explosive in their reactions to stress. So long as he's mentally engaged and not worried, he is quick to learn and smart.

 

[tda]

The pro trainer who worked with my Highland for about two months told his ex-owner that he was "slow to process things." The ex-owner then told me that he wasn't the quickest horse, mentally. But during our test rides, I could feel him responding to things I asked and learning. After two rides, I had steering!

When overwhelmed, he mentally shuts down, retreats into his own space, and then obviously doesn't learn anything. This must have been a coping mechanism he learned when captured, while some of his fellow ferals were more explosive in their reactions to stress. So long as he's mentally engaged and not worried, he is quick to learn and smart.

I think this is a definite native pony trait ?

 

[TheMule]

I’ve just given up with one with all the talent but a crap brain. We have achieved some low level eventing but way below her ability level because her brain lets her down about 50% of the time.
I wouldn’t do it again

 

[Bernster]

Attitude and temperament, so perhaps that’s ‘brains’. I wonder if your new one is partly due to you still getting to know each other and building a partnership?

I’ve had Bertie 1 year almost and I’d say we’re still working on our partnership. He’s much quicker thinking, more sensitive to ride, forward thinking, and has difficulty focussing at times! I really enjoy riding him and, when he lets me in, we do some lovely work. But it’s not consistent. Yet (but I think he’ll always be a bit like this as it’s his personality’).

Finn on the other hand is like a comfy pair of slippers. I know him so well. He’s very straightforward to ride, very willing and trainable, but less active and less flashy.

They are quite different to ride and handle but I get so much out of riding them both. I *think* they’re both more brains than ability, and for me I don’t need a super flashy horse, but both quite different in temperament and rideability.

 

[smolmaus]

I'm another one that any talent or ability would be wasted on, because I don't have any myself!

Most of the time I have a pony that is smart enough to take a second to think about things but not too smart that she thinks for too long about it, and that's just fine by me.

 

[tatty_v]

Really great responses, so interesting to read - thank you!

@Bernster you’re absolutely right we’re still building a partnership with the newer boy. We’ve had him a year now and for various reasons he had done very little for several years before we got him, so he definitely needs (and will be getting) the benefit of time. He’s 13 now and we do joke that he’ll probably get his brain in order in his 20s!

He’s a very willing boy and does desperately want to please you, so I wouldn’t say it’s an attitude problem as such. It’s more that his lack of confidence in himself and the world around him makes it a challenge. He lets his anxiety overwhelm him and then does silly things or can’t process learning because he’s not in the right headspace. We keep persevering though and it’s lovely when he does crack things as you can feel how pleased he is with himself. I’m just hoping we can eventually string it all together and help him be a bit more at peace with himself and the world.

(I’m definitely looking for more brains next time though, although noted the need for those brains to be (largely) working in harmony with you and not in the opposite direction!)

 

[oldie48]

TBH I doubt many leisure riders require talent, I certainly don't but I certainly need a good temperament and for me that is a horse that is forgiving of mistakes and wanting to work with me. Clever horses are a bit of a mixed blessing, they can be very quick to work out how effective their rider is and can behave accordingly.

 

[SEL]

My Appy is very bright. I'm not always sure that's a plus. You can see her working stuff out but then she also finds life very stressful because she doesn't go with the flow like the others do. Retirement isn't suiting her really so I try and do something with her most days. When she was a youngster there was a jumping lesson going on in the field I was riding her in and she was fascinated. I took her over there and she locked onto the little jump and broke into a trot. Nailed little jumps straight away. Also nailed all those difficult bridleway gates. Lateral work was easy for her. Unfortunately her body wasn't as capable as her brain.

The others are slower to catch on but easier to break bad habits - I don't miss the neurotic temperament though.

 

[milliepops]

bright and confident is the ultimate for me i think. My loan horse is bright and underconfident which is why he's neurotic i think.

I am happy to be on the lookout for learning the wrong things, in order to have a horse that learns the right things easily

 

[SEL]

bright and confident is the ultimate for me i think. My loan horse is bright and underconfident which is why he's neurotic i think.

That's the Appy. Huge separation anxiety and life anxiety really so her world falls apart very easily.

The microcob on the other hand has that self assurance many natives have where if everyone vanished tomorrow they'd be just fine. Makes her a good hack because she couldn't care less about leaving the others

 

[Peglo]

My Appy is very bright. I'm not always sure that's a plus. You can see her working stuff out but then she also finds life very stressful because she doesn't go with the flow like the others do. Retirement isn't suiting her really so I try and do something with her most days. When she was a youngster there was a jumping lesson going on in the field I was riding her in and she was fascinated. I took her over there and she locked onto the little jump and broke into a trot. Nailed little jumps straight away. Also nailed all those difficult bridleway gates. Lateral work was easy for her. Unfortunately her body wasn't as capable as her brain.

The others are slower to catch on but easier to break bad habits - I don't miss the neurotic temperament though.

I had Tali at a jumping lesson on a Thursday. She was great but didn’t quite get cantering up to the jumps. She was more comfortable in trot. Then on the Sunday we went show jumping. We trotted around poles to start with. She then watched the other horses cantering around the next class with her ears perked and when we went in she popped herself into a beautiful steady canter and jumped most of the course in canter. I was so surprised and did not expect it but it was amazing. I can only think watching the others gave her an idea of what to do.

 

[scats]

Brains are good, but too switched on can work against you in my experience. I’d actually go for confidence over brains.