Monty Roberts yesterday - thoughts?

That certainly wasn't comfortable viewing. The horse didn't look ready for any of it, and I can't imagine there's anything positive it's taken away from that.

Credit to the horse for standing and not killing the rider while she was on the floor and tangled up though.
 
I saw a Monty demo in the early days before it was all about filming for a 30 min slot. He worked with an abused pony that was turning somersaults if anything touched its hind quarters. That demo was in a different league to what I've seen in current years. A huge amount of patience, understanding and openess with the owners that the pony was likely to be that reactive for life.

Nowadays they seem to be after the "quick wins". What can I back in 30 mins? What can I load? Not my thing. Don't understand why a youngster needs to be all done for a 1/2 hour t.v. slot. I could see that 2nd fall coming. Sitting here going noooooo at the screen. Alright talking to the audience but focus needs to be on the horse.
 
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I watched it and felt genuinely sad for the horse. It wasn’t ready to be trotted and rushed like that but unfortunately for the purposes of entertainment they seemed to be wanting to get further with it than just sit up and walk around.

I’d have hoped MR would have picked up on the fact that it was quite wired and not ready, done what was within the horses comfort zone and left it at that, explaining to the crowd that this horse would need a slower approach.

I sort of wish he would stick to things like loading for these sorts of demos. That horse has had a seriously poor experience there and now knows how it can successfully remove a rider.
 
Not sure if the following comment that has just gone on the EWN facebook page is true but it puts an even worse view on what went on yesterday.

Lyndsay Martin This horse was rehomed as NON RIDDEN, due to severe injuries sustained in a horse walker including a broken hock. This is major negligence on your behalf to not inform people of the horses past truthfully

3m
 
just watched this and was gobsmacked......that horse was so tense there is no way it was ready to be sat on. i was amazed that he legged the rider straight back on and let her loose. very dangerous IMO. i dont have loads of experience with backing horses as have only done my own, but surely if they had to keep her in there for the sake of the demo, why not lunge her for 5 or 10 mins to hopefully calm everything down, and if she didnt calm enough then dont put the rider on!!!!and show ground techniques for controlling her as she seems very bargy and strong. not a pleasant experience for her of that poor rider, who actually did pretty well to stay on as long as she did...
 
AdorableAlice said:
Blimey, the cob spoke and no one listened to her.
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I am appalled. If I had been there (highly unlikely), I would have had to walk out.
Quite apart from anything else, why take a nervous reactive horse into that atmosphere to try to teach it anything? What on earth did the charity think they had rescued her for? To make life difficult for her?
 
be positive said:
Not sure if the following comment that has just gone on the EWN facebook page is true but it puts an even worse view on what went on yesterday.

Lyndsay Martin This horse was rehomed as NON RIDDEN, due to severe injuries sustained in a horse walker including a broken hock. This is major negligence on your behalf to not inform people of the horses past truthfully

3m
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I just saw that!!

Along with the other comments such as "Good progress, looking forward to seeing her tomorrow", "Ding ding round two" and "Isn't she beautiful?"

I hope they don't use her tonight.
 
JFTD said:
That certainly wasn't comfortable viewing. The horse didn't look ready for any of it, and I can't imagine there's anything positive it's taken away from that.

Credit to the horse for standing and not killing the rider while she was on the floor and tangled up though.
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As above really I did not watch past the first fall i think it would have made me even sadder. Any horse that I have been involved with has never bucked when in the first stages of being backed and early ridden work. ( that maybe has come later!) Maybe it is time for him stop these demo's. I was also shocked that he just left rider to sort herself out that could have been a terrible accident.

Poor horse will take a long time to unlearn this and he has just made it in to a rodeo horse.
 
I agree ive never had a horse react badly to first 'sitting on' but I wouldn't' even say on like that. I've backed a few much 'hotter' than that youngsters and the fireworks usually come much later... sitting on for the first time should be a positive experience for all and should not be done til the horse finds every step before boring. This can be five minutes or five weeks depending on the horse but trying to do every horse in 30 minutes is foolhardy
 
be positive said:
Not sure if the following comment that has just gone on the EWN facebook page is true but it puts an even worse view on what went on yesterday.

Lyndsay Martin This horse was rehomed as NON RIDDEN, due to severe injuries sustained in a horse walker including a broken hock. This is major negligence on your behalf to not inform people of the horses past truthfully

3m
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I watched the whole thing thinking "I hope they have made really, really sure theres no physical issues before they did this". That looked to me like a horse that was hurting.
 
JFTD said:
That certainly wasn't comfortable viewing. The horse didn't look ready for any of it, and I can't imagine there's anything positive it's taken away from that.

Credit to the horse for standing and not killing the rider while she was on the floor and tangled up though.
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Agreed. Such a vast difference to what MR used to do nearly 30 yrs ago here.

BP, I saw that comment too, just appalling if that's right :mad3:
 
ester said:
EWN? That's pretty shocking if it was non ridden for physical reasons not behavioural.
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The horse belongs to a charity known as Equine Welfare Network, so it could well have been gifted a non ridden horse to ensure it's future was safe, the comment is on their facebook page although most of the others seem to be saying how well it went "amazing progress" but maybe they were seeing something different to me.
 
be positive said:
Not sure if the following comment that has just gone on the EWN facebook page is true but it puts an even worse view on what went on yesterday.

Lyndsay Martin This horse was rehomed as NON RIDDEN, due to severe injuries sustained in a horse walker including a broken hock. This is major negligence on your behalf to not inform people of the horses past truthfully

3m
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What !!!!!!!!
No wonder the poor horse was nervous and reactive. If MR had been worth his salt he would have told the 'rescue' that she wasn't suitable for the demo, even without knowing that piece of info,which presumably he didn't know.
 
I shook my head as Monty said 'look how she's trying to stay with me' several times, as each time the poor creature walked away from him staring out through the cage as if begging someone, anyone, in the crowd to rescue her. And they just laughed.

What a terrible spectacle, almost as bad as Parelli and Catwalk.
 
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got it thanks BP :)

I do think people just go along with a name, and if he says they did good work people will agree they made good progress regardless of what they are watching.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
What !!!!!!!!
No wonder the poor horse was nervous and reactive. If MR had been worth his salt he would have told the 'rescue' that she wasn't suitable for the demo, even without knowing that piece of info,which presumably he didn't know.
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That is what I am confused about, that previously people have said that all the horses are assessed before some of them are selected for the demo, so why was this mare selected.

Also, while I understand they wouldn't have wanted to spook the horse they were very slow to do anything when the rider was hanging off trapped, not even grabbing the line. Compared to speed that a fallen off jockey ran to help his mate racing last week.
 
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That made very uncomfortable viewing and having just looked at the facebook page of EWN the comments in response to the video make uncomfortable reading. As be positive says #43 they must be seeing something different. I feel so sorry for the mare if she has suffered injury in the past IMHO its another case of a horse/pony that probably should have been PTS rather than gifted to a charity.
 
IME NH trainers never look to the physical cause of behavioural issues-I've seen too many horses and ponies been to different ones (famous ones and not only Parelli) to be sorted out only for issues to resurface down the line. They would turn up to our clinics and then be persuaded to have a full work up. I have seen video footage of one poor horse ridden by a famous NHer -literally into the ground. Pony was later PTS due to SI and hock issues and tbh, his discomfort was absolutely plain to see.most of them look to shut the horse down.
I've seen the results of starting them like this, and I've always loathed join up. none of these people making money from such things, as far as I can see, have the horse's best interests at heart and I'd not give them my money to view it let alone send a horse to one.
 
I can quite see what a charity would put horses forward, it would be "good" publicity, and he does have a "name" in training difficult horses. I see on their FB page that they were asking for donations to send 4 of their horses. Can't help but think this one has backfired though.

I do hope they don't use her tonight. If she is indeed injured then I hope she remains non ridden. If she is not injured then I hope she is helped at her pace out of the demo situation.

The comments from their followers did also bewilder me. Round two ding ding??? Like it is a sort of fight????
 
I'm fairly gobsmacked watching this especially if it's true the horse wasn't supposed to be ridden due to injury. I've seen Monty once many years ago and felt he definitely understood horses but didn't like the showman element of the demos. His lungeline trailing on the ground also strikes me as a risk and I think that rider was incredibly lucky she wasn't dragged, trodden on or kicked.

Personally I've always felt Monty's methods get the rider on the horses back quickly but leave a lot of gaps in the horse's education to be filled in later compared with a traditional backing process where the horse has usually learned voice commands and, especially if long reined, had the opportunity to feel and understand rein contact and aids. Before getting on the horse has had the chance to get used to being worked with, the tack on and off a number of times and has generally been settled working in an arena. Monty's methods seem to throw a lot at the horse in one go and I was told of one horse who behaved well at the demo but the next day the qwner went to put the saddle on and it was launched at great speed accross the arena.

On the other hand I was very impressed with Richard Maxwell both in a demo and also working with a difficult loader belonging to someone I know.
 
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The most difficult horse I have ever had in for training was somewhat like this mare. We did back it eventually but never got it to advance beyond walk/trot. Long after I found out that it had broken it's neck, several people had tried to ride it and failed, the owner knew this and sent it along to us anyway. I was furious (for the horse's sake) and gave the owner a dressing down. He told me the horse was put down the day he collected it from us. Some people are horrible. I hope this mare gets a better chance.
 
I agree with others, the horse clearly wasn't ready for someone to get properly on. I respected Monty Roberts a few years back but nowadays he seems to be keen to do quick fixes, but IMO I dont see why anyone wants to "back" a horse in one go in a performance like this. Whats wrong with simply working up to leaning over its back over several days, then sitting up gently once the horse is ready before moving onto the next stage? I dont get why anyone would need to rush it like this. TBH, the horse doesn't even look like it had the basics of being able to lead nicely taught to it yet. Brave rider though! I wouldn't want to have got on that horse at the beginning let alone after the first bronc, let alone the second! Ouch! I sort of feel that really Monty should be the one to be getting chucked off... its easy being the one on the ground! IMO the horse is going to even more explosive and sharp after this... good luck owners...
 
MotherOfChickens said:
IME NH trainers never look to the physical cause of behavioural issues-I've seen too many horses and ponies been to different ones (famous ones and not only Parelli) to be sorted out only for issues to resurface down the line. They would turn up to our clinics and then be persuaded to have a full work up. I have seen video footage of one poor horse ridden by a famous NHer -literally into the ground. Pony was later PTS due to SI and hock issues and tbh, his discomfort was absolutely plain to see.most of them look to shut the horse down.
I've seen the results of starting them like this, and I've always loathed join up. none of these people making money from such things, as far as I can see, have the horse's best interests at heart and I'd not give them my money to view it let alone send a horse to one.
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I agree with this. A lot of 'natural' horsemanship is anything but and causes horses to shut down completely.
 
I saw MR live once, must have been about 20 years ago. He used a 'buck stop' thingy... like a gum shield? I thought then he was a bit fake, as a person of his calibre, who has to back 'bucky' horses with gadgets to stop them bucking? Just didn't sit right. Then saw Richard Maxwell, he did a lovely job, and prefered him. I was also put off Kelly Marks, when she was trying to load a horse into a trailer, by using army camouflage nets to hide the trailer!!?!?!
Anyway, watching this video of MR with a clearly stressed flighty mare, part of me thinks I'm glad it went wrong, as it proves it does happen, but equally, it should never have got to the stage (agreeing with most people on this thread). I worry for the mare now. That would never be un-done.
 
nothing about that was remotely 'horse friendly' . Cannot believe people going to watch that for an 'enlightened' method of horse handling could watch that and applaud..
 
Rowreach said:
And laugh. How was it remotely funny?
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I know I know not remotely funny ,a horse having bad experiance is not funny .
It all get right up my nose and pending the myth that this type of method is somehow more humane than the tradional structured way I was trained to back horses . Where great care was taken to physically condition the horse and to train it to the voice to teach it the basics of bend and yielding away before a structured step by step build up to the backing and then a structured approach to riding away .
Hey ho all part of the quick fix horsemanship too popular today .
It was drummed into us that the horse lives with the mistakes you make at the start for ever - you move on to the next one but the horse can’t escape that backing because it only has one .
That’s why I hate backing as entertainment .
 
Goldenstar said:
I know I know not remotely funny ,a horse having bad experiance is not funny .
It all get right up my nose and pending the myth that this type of method is somehow more humane than the tradional structured way I was trained to back horses . Where great care was taken to physically condition the horse and to train it to the voice to teach it the basics of bend and yielding away before a structured step by step build up to the backing and then a structured approach to riding away .
Hey ho all part of the quick fix horsemanship too popular today .
It was drummed into us that the horse lives with the mistakes you make at the start for ever - you move on to the next one but the horse can’t escape that backing because it only has one .
That’s why I hate backing as entertainment .
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Totally with you.
 
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