More pro's sticking up for AT...

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As a specialist in my own field who get annoyed when ignorant amateurs argue with me, if the experts in eventing say that she was correct, I would tend to go along with their opinion.

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An ex is a has been and a spert is a drip under pressure!

No one is ever infalliable, ive questioned so called experts on something ive seen but they havent and its turned out to be important. An expert is just as capable as anyone else at getting it wrong and because they concider themselves experts its normaly the basics they get wrong when they over think the problem.
 
Ex...spert... I would not call Mary King that....

I presume that she and the others have also watched this video several times and made up their minds. When you have done what these people have done, then you are in a position to tell them they are talking rubbish. Until then, keep your armchair opinions to yourself.
 
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Ex...spert... I would not call Mary King that....

I presume that she and the others have also watched this video several times and made up their minds. When you have done what these people have done, then you are in a position to tell them they are talking rubbish. Until then, keep your armchair opinions to yourself.

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Presumptious of you to make such an assumption, no?
I'm not an armchair jockey, and I'm disgusted by her. And if you see nothing wrong in the video, then IMO you fall into the same category as AT.
 
I have not seen the video, but I am prepared to go along with the opinion of the FEI on this. They will take expert evidence and closely study the video.

If this was a major criminal court case, the public would not be allowed to view the evidence and comment in public on the guilt or otherwise of the accused.
 
If no one questions the experts actions then the experts will get away with murder (litteraly in this case).
I'm willing to bet that mary king is willing to be questioned about her actions and dealing with horses, if you cannot come up with a sensible explination for what and why you are doing it then you are no expert.
Experts are willing to be questioned on why, will look and think maybe i was wrong and then admit it. If you can not admit your wrong when you so clearly are wrong then your not an expert you are a twit with a superiority complex.

If no one questioned the so called experts we would still believe the world was flat, that anyone with a birth mark was a witch and that it only took 7 days for the world to become what it is now!
 
the crime happend in the public domain, it was shown live on TV for the world to see so even if it was a criminal case (which it may become if some societies get involved) then there would still be public comment and critisism and nothing could stop that. you only have to look at any high profile murder to know that you cant shut people up and you cannot silence the public
 
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I have not seen the video,

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Well why don't you look at the ******* thing???? I put it there so you could see what you're condoning by default............

Jeez...........
 
My opinion on this is that I am nowhere near the standard of any of these experts BUT I can tell straight away when something is wrong with Pidge, whether it is the fact he has gone disunited in canter or when he went lame. Personally I stopped as soon as I realised Pidge was lame and when he is disunited in canter it only takes me 2-3 strides to stop him and that's only because he's so keen.
I really can't understand why people have an issue with the fact that AT was in the wrong to continue riding her horse - you only have to look at the video to see how the horse was going, god only knows what it felt like
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However this decision is something that she will have to live with for the rest of her life especially bearing in the mind the unfortunate consequence for the poor horse. I do sincerely hope she has a conscience........................
 
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that possibly could be related to the fact that most of us only have one horse and so if that one is 'broken' we'd have nothing to ride

Maybe it's not that they don't know/care but because if one breaks there is another in the stable at home that they can ride - maybe not at the same level - the program was talking to Zara and she was saying that Toytown can only ever now do a max. of 4 events a year so for her to compete she must have other horses in the stable - not european champs. ones but still ones to ride and compete

us armchair lot probably have only one horse or maybe two but not enough to afford to ignore a possible injury that could leave our one horse out of action for months and months, paying for livery and yet not being able to ride

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erm.... Don't quite agree with this

I would pull up my horse if he was injured because I wouldn't want him to be in pain - nothing to do with him being my only ride - to do with me caring about him & not wanting him to hurt himself further
 
The fact is, though, that we are not ignorant amateurs. A fair number of people on here ride at a considerable level, and most people on here have been riding long enough to call themselves horse people.

This is not an issue of expert vs. amateur, this is an issue of right vs wrong. It is absolute rubbish to say that because we are not professionals, then none of us could recognise a lame horse, that we can't have an opinion. Total bullsh*t. Why don't you watch the blinking video?!

Just for the record drjames, a good friend of mine works for a high profile eventer/trainer, one whose opinion you might respect - and he does not condone ATs actions in the slightest.
 
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I would pull up my horse if he was injured because I wouldn't want him to be in pain - nothing to do with him being my only ride - to do with me caring about him & not wanting him to hurt himself further


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But not everyone has feelings about horses like us normal people.
I was out hunting once and overheard a man say that he didn't care if he broke his horse because he'd just go and buy another one
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Maybe some people just have that sort of attitude? As sad as it is a horse is just an object to them.
 
I think there's a massive difference in ignorance and intent.
Having seen the video I cringed with everyone else, but I do think the woman was so intent on finishing her mind was not thinking properly.
I don't think she thought, "Bugg** my horse has broken down but I'll push him through the finish and kill him"
More a case of "What the hell's happening under me, was that a stumble or has he hurt himself?"
By that time she made the wrong decision completely and made an injury much much worse.
I can see why LG and MP are saying what they have, they aren't defending her, but saying it was a misjudgement. Admittedly one that cost a lovely horse his life, but not a deliberate one in my book.
I feel she should be banned to ensure others don't repeat the same mistake, but as I have said before, no ban or derisory comments anywhere will hurt as much as what she knows she did by her own ignorance....
Would you like to wake up every day with that on your mind?
 
Dr James - you CANNOT have an opinion on this incident unless you have SEEN the incident - END OF. It reaaaaaally angers me when people make up an opinion based on what people have told them, rather than seeing with their own eyes what happened and THEN making their OWN decision. IMO it's just running with the crowd and shows a very weak personality.
 
Im assuming DrJames is connected to the medical/scientific community (unless he just wants to give himself 'airs'). If we took his comments on relying on 'the FEI and 'experts'' to a broader level would he please explain to me how Dr Harold Shipman, who was no doubt a qualified 'expert' was right in KILLING loads of little old ladies.

Or is it one rule for one sector of society and another rule for the rest?

Drjames if you want to play devils advocate or make contentious comments I suggest you avail yourself of the offers of links to this video......then again maybe YOUR level of equestrian experience isnt great enough to allow you to actually understand what you are looking at.

Im sure someone here would have the patience to explain acute lameness to you.
 
Up until just now, I had only read the various views of this tragic event. Because of this, I thought that maybe the lameness had possibly felt quite slight (ie. a stumble or the like) or had happened far closer to the jump, and because of this didn't want to comment either way.

However, now having seen the video, it may have first felt like a stumble but the fact that the horse really didn't want to go forward and was so obviously 'not right' surely should have sounded alarm bells.

I would, however, like to think that this was a genuine tragedy and that AT wouldn't think of a competition over the welfare of her horse......I don't know I just hope! Whatever the case, she will have to live with this and all the fallout that comes with it.
 
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I can still vividly recall experiencing something similar years ago. I had no idea that what felt like a sudden lameness behind was actually my horse dying beneath me from a burst aorta.

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A burst aorta is very nasty - unless you had seen one, I doubt you would know what it actually happening. I would not criticize a rider for kicking on with one.
 
I haven't responded to any of the posts regarding AT. So no doubt I will be shot down in flames.
I didn't see the video, and only know what I have read either here on on reports.

I personally find it hard to believe any rider would have kicked on if they knew the seriousness of the situation. AT had nothing to gain by getting the horse through the finish, only to fail the trot up for the next phase. In the heat of the moment with adrenalin pumping through her, I can only assume she had red mist as far as finishing was concerned.

I think many people have a problem with the fact she then went on to compete a week later, as it is assumed she had no remorse about le Samauri. Bad judgement, maybe. But there are far worse crimes, and afterall hindsite is a wonderful thing.
 
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Ex...spert... I would not call Mary King that....

I presume that she and the others have also watched this video several times and made up their minds. When you have done what these people have done, then you are in a position to tell them they are talking rubbish. Until then, keep your armchair opinions to yourself.

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Watch the damn video Dr Green!! If you are a so called expert in the field then you should bloody well form your own opinions and not just go along with whatever the FEI says. Thats just pathetic. Why won't you watch it? Are you scared it'll change your opinion and you'll have to admit you're wrong on this???

We dont have to have done what they do before forming an opinion. Thats almost as stupid as saying that with regard to Frankie Dettori being done for whipping his horse too many times - we cant say that was cruel because we dont race! Its perfectly acceptable for us to form opinions. I event, yeah sure not at the level AT does obviously but I can tell you that if my horse suddenly went lame, I would be off my horse so damn quick...... because I actually give a s*it about my animals!!! However Dr Green, I do wonder - in what way are YOU qualified to tell us to shut up? Do YOU event at the top level????? hmmmm..... probably not me thinks. I doubt you event at all......
 
Casey no I totally agree - as a professional rider there are great pressures to do well. She put that pressure onto her horse for the last 30+ strides, but in all honesty the incident is not what got me. If she said, I made a mistake, we were doing so well, and through the disbelief of what was happening, the pressure, and the hope that is what nothing I made a terrible call, and I apologize to the horse, the owners, my staff, the event organizers and the public. blah blah blah, but this notion that she did not know what was going on, is total hogwash. It is unprofessional and disrespectful to her horse, and everyone else.
 
GTs - Exactly! OMG I think this is the first time Ive ever agreed with you!

HAD she turned round a couple of days after the event (when the realisation set in) and apologised, appeared deeply upset and admitted what a terrible mistake she'd made then I dont believe 90% of us would be kicking up such a fuss! Because YES we are only human and YES we do make mistakes. But she doesnt seem to have any remorse for what happened and has taken no blame whatsoever which is as you say - totally unprofessional and disrespectful.
 
Agree with you GTs.

I don't think these "professionals" have seen the footage - or are just blindly sticking up for their friends.
 
as others have said, if you didnt see the video, dont comment, it was awful. but regardless of the rights and wrongs , r wether there was intent or not or whatever, Magic melon is dead right about one thing....she could have handled it alot better. I met Amy a couple of times last year reporting and stuff and thought she was really sound but it was the APPARENT lack of remorse that really got me to be honest, though i am sure she was devasted when she reaalised what she had done. And I saw Mrs Greens horse drop dead at badminton, it was on the floor in what seemed to be a good deal less than ten seconds and she was on her lap of honur at the time not kicking it over the last.
 
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As a specialist in my own field who get annoyed when ignorant amateurs argue with me, if the experts in eventing say that she was correct, I would tend to go along with their opinion.

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D. R. James / Dr James / or whatever? Newly (??)qualified "specialist in your field" to make an unjustified, unsubstantiated, and insulting comment like this. How do you know if any other posters on here are experts or amatures?

Many experts "in the field" have condemned what happend. Several experts "in the field" were along side the track shouting for AT to pull up - which was ignored. For goodness sake they could have been trying to pull her up for a fallen rider on the blind side of the fence.

And on the topic of "ignorant amatures" as you so pathetically assumes people apart from yourself are, hmmm, let me see. Just think of some "ignorant amatures" who have made incredible impact on humankind for the good of all.

EINSTEIN spring to mind? Could'nt even pass an entrance exam in the Swiss Institute of Technology, did not even finish High School.

I am an expert in a specialst scientific field yet I listen to ALL opinions before making my own. Suggest you watch the video first before flaming others for voicing their own thoughts on the matter.
 
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If this was a major criminal court case, the public would not be allowed to view the evidence and comment in public on the guilt or otherwise of the accused.

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Incorrect - it happened in America, and it would have been on every nightly news channel, if a major crime was court on video. This would be especially true if it was violent, sexual, peverse, or involved Paris Hilton.
 
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I didn't see the video, and only know what I have read either here on on reports.


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Well here's your opportunity.........then pass comment...........

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It's not her continuing to compete that angers me, it's her blatant disregard for her horse's welfare at the time.
The red mist is no excuse............LOOK AT THE VIDEO........

It drives me nuts when people pass opinions on something they haven't bothered to look at................
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Thank you for posting that link. i hadnt seen it since the first time as it made me so sick so i thought i would look again in case i had missed something mrs Green or some other luminary had seen. Sadly i didnt. The horse stumbles so badly before it loses its action that it must have crossed the riders mind it had at least lost a shoe then she kicks it on, its changing legs to save itself and she must have felt that, then as she approaches the last she gathers her reins, sets it up and goes for it. There are not enough bad words to say. if she hadnt been in the lead she would have pulled up. She clearly decides to jump the last as indicated by shortening reins and trying to balance struggling horse. All defenders of AT want to watch the thing again.
 
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Agree with you GTs.

I don't think these "professionals" have seen the footage - or are just blindly sticking up for their friends.

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I think this has more to do with saving face of eventing.
The sport struggles to keep it's place in the olympics, there are too many people too quick to jump on the cruelty bandwagon, we all saw the posts relating to the fatailities at badminton.
I honestly think LG will be trying to limit damage.
Was AT wrong to keep the horse going YES!
However i don't belive that if she had fully comprehended the conciquences of her actions at the time she would have done what we all wanted her to and pulled up.
Would it have made any differance to the catastrophic injury that her horse sustained, we will probably never know.
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Also horses that burst aortas/ have heart attacks often show no signs of distress other than a possible fleeting moment as the incident occurs and the creature goes down so i do not know how anyone can compare the two things. Horses that finish exhausted and subsequently collapse are another case and often should be in the abuse file as well.
 
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