More revelations on AHAR

ester said:
Its the difference between helping the one, and helping the whole sorry situation really isn't it? A big more bigger picture thinking.
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that's it exactly. The charity i get mine from are amazing. they go into the pound and they really have to choose the best ones they think they can rehome. It breaks their heart to leave some, but they have to be realistic and not take out horses who need operations, vet works etc. They believe the money is better spent on helping horses who can easily be passed on and rehomed. They don't just take out 50 at a time and have them all crippled in a field.
 
paddi22 said:
like i believe in retraining sulky racer rescues to go on to be nice allrounders. doing that you have two options


1, Go to the sulky racer owners who are mistreating the horses and offer to buy the horse you feel so sorry for
PROs: you get the horse
CONS: you give cash to the owners who then go off and probably buy two more to breed as they have a market now for them
Overall result: situation made worse and more horses kept in probably worse condition

2.Go to an established regulated charity who work with the council to rehome healthy ones that have been impounded. Work and help the council to improve laws to impound them. Petition to change laws so they cant race on roads and help improve their overall quality of life.
PROS you get a horse to help, the owners have the horses impounded due to improving laws, the charity have an extra space free to help another horse,
CONS : none

thats the difference. you still get the same reward of helping a horse, but in the second situation the overall scenario is getting better. in the first one you are actually making the situation worse, despite your good intention
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I'll make a suggestion shall I, perhaps you could start a petititon to make it legal for animal rescue centres to impound abused animals, that way the temptation to purchase them to get them away from the abusers will disappear.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Right, only AHAR seem to be getting most of the blame for all the puppy mill issues here yet which sounds pretty mad if you ask me.
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Thats just a defensive defection tactic you are using. No-one said ahar are responsible for all puppy farming in ireland. but they are the only charity buying dogs at fairs. thats just a fact. and as a result of their actions puppy farm people go home with a pocket full of money to breed other poor puppys. A charity would do a lot more good spending the money on an education leaflet for facebook telling people why buying at fairs is bad.
 
paddi22 said:
Thats just a defensive defection tactic you are using. No-one said ahar are responsible for all puppy farming in ireland. but they are the only charity buying dogs at fairs. thats just a fact. and as a result of their actions puppy farm people go home with a pocket full of money to breed other poor puppys. A charity would do a lot more good spending the money on an education leaflet for facebook telling people why buying at fairs is bad.
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Maybe, but at least the animal is still alive.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
I'll make a suggestion shall I, perhaps you could start a petititon to make it legal for animal rescue centres to impound abused animals, that way the temptation to purchase them to get them away from the abusers will disappear.
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no.
• because the centres aren't regulated enough. anyone could start one up and just take animals to sell on etc.
• From the situation at AHAR they aren't on board with vets either if their own animals are in such shocking condition, so they can't be trusted to judge the situation
• You are also putting rescue centre volunteers in physical danger when they go to impound animals in rough circumstances.

The ones i work with work through the local council and the system works, there's a proper back up of vets, heavies to take and transport the horses. there's also aan education system to teach the people who genuinely DO want to keep the animals but are clueless.

You need a complete functional regulated systems. Not a load of animals hoarders going round taking animals at random.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Right, only AHAR seem to be getting most of the blame for all the puppy mill issues here yet which sounds pretty mad if you ask me.
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I don't read that, I just read that they are perhaps misguidedly contributing to the problem.

Chocolate moonbeam said:
Maybe, but at least the animal is still alive.
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again, not the bigger picture, if you prefer to look at it from this angle then fine but many won't.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Maybe, but at least the animal is still alive.
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you hope.You see, so many dogs,cats and horses get into AHAR and are never heard from again.Questions are blocked. Every reputable rescue I know, once again, knows the status of all the animals in their care, present and past AHAR doesn't. That alone is a red flag.
So,let me make it easy on you and tell you what exactly my issues are with Ahar:

1) non transparency on the state of animals in their care
2) non transparency of the number of animals in their care
3) non transparency on the donated funds and how they are spent
4) Buying animals instead of seizing them with the help of the gardai
5) By doing so, encouraging the cycle of supply and demand

Thats just the main 5 points.I'm sure I can come up with more details
 
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paddi22 said:
no.
• because the centres aren't regulated enough. anyone could start one up and just take animals to sell on etc.
• From the situation at AHAR they aren't on board with vets either if their own animals are in such shocking condition, so they can't be trusted to judge the situation
• You are also putting rescue centre volunteers in physical danger when they go to impound animals in rough circumstances.

The ones i work with work through the local council and the system works, there's a proper back up of vets, heavies to take and transport the horses. there's also aan education system to teach the people who genuinely DO want to keep the animals but are clueless.

You need a complete functional regulated systems. Not a load of animals hoarders going round taking animals at random.
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Well in that case, I guess we as a society will just have to suck up the images of 15 stone men racing yearlings up and down the road, equines with massively overgrown hooves and skeletal bodies walking down the highstreet, greyhounds found beaten to death in graveyards and horses being dragged out of canals by a bulldozer.
 
ehh you have to be joking. the last place i saw a horse with 'massively overgrown hooves; as you say was that horse thats in AHAR's 'care'!!
 
and no one suggested ignoring it, just that all rescues having the juristiction to go round impounding animals is not the best way to deal with it.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Well in that case, I guess we as a society will just have to suck up the images of 15 stone men racing yearlings up and down the road, equines with massively overgrown hooves and skeletal bodies walking down the highstreet, greyhounds found beaten to death in graveyards and horses being dragged out of canals by a bulldozer.
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We don't. We need to come up with a logical system that doesn't reward the people who are causing the issues in the first place. We need a regulated charity system that ensures horses get correct care. We need to petition governments to change welfare laws. There's a ton of things we can do to improve the situation. Giving money to a puppy farmer isn't one of them
 
paddi22 said:
ehh you have to be joking. the last place i saw a horse with 'massively overgrown hooves; as you say was that horse thats in AHAR's 'care'!!
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Slight exaggeration there when you consider this.

Screen-Shot-2015-08-26-at-3.43.24-PM.png
 
She said the last place.... not the worst case.... there are plenty of worse cases but that doesn't make hero ok, and many of them would not have got worse in rescue.
 
paddi22 said:
We don't. We need to come up with a logical system that doesn't reward the people who are causing the issues in the first place. We need a regulated charity system that ensures horses get correct care. We need to petition governments to change welfare laws. There's a ton of things we can do to improve the situation. Giving money to a puppy farmer isn't one of them
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In the mean time though what do you suggest?
 
if you read my sentence i said the LAST place i'd been horrified by was AHAR horses. I am horrified by all untreated hoof issues. what upset me more about AHARS one was that it was a charity causing the horse pain by neglect.

we all know horse welfare is bad, but good attempt to deflect away from the issue by posting a horrific issue. I'm sure ahar can post a similar pic in a few years if they continue their current farrier routine
 
there is no magic solution. We don't live in a movie. The best anyone can do is chip away to improve things that DO make massive differences; improving legislation, giving councils more power to impound, starting education programs in rough areas, educating sectors where abuse happens, setting up watchdogs to stop abuse, funding regulated charities with proper rehoming facilities, fighting for harder penalties for abuse.

all those would cause more of a change then giving cash to a puppy farming and thengetting an ego buzz from feeling like a saviour cause you've saved one puppy and created a situation where two more will replace it
 
Mince Pie said:
So it's ok for AHAR to do it because there are worse cases elsewhere?
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apparently so, even though those are to be rescued, not having been rescued. . .
Of course everything is always relative, but comparing to a likely laminitic which puts a whole different slant (boom boom) on hoof growth seems pretty pointless to me.
 
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