'More rounder'? How do you train in response to dressage feedback?

C

cheekywelshie

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 January 2008
Messages
794
Visit site
Last month the boy was relaxed and we did OK - managed a 65 (P12) at a venue we have been to a lot.
This week - with the hot weather and a sluggish warm up - away from home he was poking his nose a bit and rushing. The rushing prob not helped by me putting on spurs last minute - i never ride in them - but worried he might break the trot (instead what happened was we broke the walk into trot!) So bit disappointed but that was my fault and I don't think I will wear them again. Perhaps less relaxed as in a venue I haven't been to often? Also long cantering around the arena, felt a bit like being in spag western than dressage tbh - he went flat and on forehand v quickly.

We always get comments about being more round and more supple through turns (definitely the E to B one is the worst) - so how do you train to help develop this?
 
Oh gosh: you've just asked the question that'll take about 10 years to answer - it's essentially what dressage is all about. Roundness isn't just one thing, it's everything. It's self-carriage, it's relaxation, it's accepting the rider's aids and being through in the body, it's impulsion and lightness.

How do you train to get this? Properly, is the answer. Do you have an instructor? That'll be essential if you are to reach the goals that dressage embodies.
 
Haha! Yes I'm with Cortez, I'm afraid OP, I read your post and thought there's a lot there, and this is your life's work ;)

In short I wouldn't train anything solely to address a remark or a movement in a test - because what you do in the test is just a small demonstration of the things I do at home all the time in much more depth and variety. For instance, your day to day training should be designed to help you get (and keep) your horse on your aids, so he won't break in the walk, or trot etc. Likewise your daily work should be developing suppleness, so the tight turns in a test aren't difficult (E-B is just a right angled turn like any corner ;) so working to use your corners all the time will help to make that simple). And so on :)

In addition I try to develop a warm up routine that helps us both get into the right frame of mind that I use every time at home, and that I can do at a show, so I don't make big changes before a test. It's rare that you can fix a problem in the 15 mins before a test, that has been plaguing you at home for the last month, but sticking to a routine that works can definitely help getting everything else in place.
So if you think you are at the stage when spurs would be useful, then use them at home rather than just putting them on at a show. Otherwise don't use them at all :)

Do you have a good instructor who can help you with all this?
 
Echo that - a good instructor. You could have a look at books like The Scales of Training and work slowly through the principles of classical dressage - but you'd get further faster with a good instructor. On top of Cortez's quite correct answer the cause of problems with all those elements could be training, maturity, musculature, but also tack, saddle fit, bit and rider.
 
Yes I do and I focus on rider biomechanics and have chosen an instructor to help on these lines - she lives about 50 miles away though so we only see her every few months but I have noticed a real difference during the lesson in terms of how my riding affects the horse and how he relaxes and comes off the forehand a bit...even if just for a few seconds (Previous instructors just focused on putting the horse in an outline which just led to frustration and was not going to solve the problem, I felt I was wasting money and it wasn't helping my horse so I became a bit fussy about who to have lessons with).

The problem is any relaxation I get during the lesson goes out the window somewhat when it comes to the test. My horse was responsive to the aid and transitions (self carriage is the big challenge, he is built croup high and is not the lightest on his feet so I do a lot of transitions to try and get him off the forehand) -although the canter is very heavy - and flat. Today though the overwhelming feedback written about four/five times was 'could be rounder'.

I also got quite anxious in the warm up because there were a lot of big graceful horses and it felt a bit intimidating...
 
milliepops said:
Haha! Yes I'm with Cortez, I'm afraid OP, I read your post and thought there's a lot there, and this is your life's work ;)

In short I wouldn't train anything solely to address a remark or a movement in a test - because what you do in the test is just a small demonstration of the things I do at home all the time in much more depth and variety. For instance, your day to day training should be designed to help you get (and keep) your horse on your aids, so he won't break in the walk, or trot etc. Likewise your daily work should be developing suppleness, so the tight turns in a test aren't difficult (E-B is just a right angled turn like any corner ;) so working to use your corners all the time will help to make that simple). And so on :)

In addition I try to develop a warm up routine that helps us both get into the right frame of mind that I use every time at home, and that I can do at a show, so I don't make big changes before a test. It's rare that you can fix a problem in the 15 mins before a test, that has been plaguing you at home for the last month, but sticking to a routine that works can definitely help getting everything else in place.
So if you think you are at the stage when spurs would be useful, then use them at home rather than just putting them on at a show. Otherwise don't use them at all :)

Do you have a good instructor who can help you with all this?
Click to expand...

He switches off quite quickly in the school so it can be hard to keep him motivated! Once I end up working on trying to keep him forward i forget about my core etc....and my position goes to pot a bit! I have found that walk halt transitions have been working but he is a bit stiff on turns - I perhaps don't do enough. I have owned him for 11 years and we do OK - perhaps I am asking too much. I felt I had a breakthrough this year when we actually won a prelim test but after today am feeling a bit down.
 
cheekywelshie said:
He switches off quite quickly in the school so it can be hard to keep him motivated! Once I end up working on trying to keep him forward i forget about my core etc....and my position goes to pot a bit! I have found that walk halt transitions have been working but he is a bit stiff on turns - I perhaps don't do enough. I have owned him for 11 years and we do OK - perhaps I am asking too much. I felt I had a breakthrough this year when we actually won a prelim test but after today am feeling a bit down.
Click to expand...

Riding well and training horses well is difficult :) don't underestimate that. I think it's really useful to have an instructor to help when you are struggling with something like you have described, because at the moment in time where you're focused so much on something that your own position deteriorates they are there to remind you about it. It's like rubbing your tummy and patting your head - you have to learn to do 2 things (or 3 things, or many more things!) at once, and that is difficult.

Improving suppleness and responsiveness are things that many horses need work on, it's a long term project IME, there are no quick fixes but you can definitely improve it, I would say again that some good regular lessons should really help to develop strategies to help.
 
Can you get more regular help ?
As every one has said this is a life work you never stop developing your skills that’s what makes it so absorbing.
Test riding is a bit of special skill and I will admit I am not a great test rider but the more you complete the better ( or less bad in my case ) you get.
 
I think you are right about the test riding being a special skill! Perhaps some of it is just getting out doing it and then it is less of an issue. I do need to work on turns though and bend . Hopoing to get my instructor down for a few days in May fingers crossed. I rode this morning popped a few jumps and it was like riding a different horse..think he is trying to tell me he wants to do jumping for a bit (and here I worry about remembering the order of fences on single phase - yet I did used to do all this! LOL)
 
Do you incorporate basic lateral work into your training and lessons? Things like spiralling in and out on circles using leg yield can really help get the horse round your leg, and shoulder in to medium trot gets them moving forward with the hind leg underneath them.
Plenty of serpentines of varying loops can really help with bend and should mean that you can do any turn in a test comfortably.
It is difficult without consistent help - whatever you can do to get more lessons / video your lessons to watch in between / have a friend watch the lessons and even help you on the ground in between would make a difference :-)
 
I read a good tip recently (can't remember where). It was to get someone to record your lessons so you can watch them back for when you're schooling on your own.
 
When I get the comment "could be rounder" it usually means the horse isn't in front of the leg and having had a horse that would "rush" but def wasn't in front of the leg, I understand your confusion as it took a very good trainer to help me get my head round it. Of course, as others have pointed out, it's not that simple but it is a starting point.
 
Everyone has more or less covered my 'generic' thoughts,' - i.e. that continual correct training will lift all marks.

But one exercise I can suggest to help with those tricky E-B lines is riding squares, and developing that 'inside leg to outside hand' so outside rein to control the outside shoulder, and therefore the depth of the bend, inside leg to ask for the bend. That should see you set up more effectively for the straight line across the school, and hopefully more consistent in the contact. You can then build that up to asking for a few strides of leg yield 'into' the square from 1/4 line to 1/4 line to help with suppleness through the body.

That is my absolute go to exercise for my horse, either when she's a bit fresh and not cooperating and we need to calibrate, or when I think she's not reactive enough off my leg/ not supple enough/ not taking the contact forward enough. It always helps me get a better quality trot too, I sit up, start riding, and focus on not letting the trot run off / rush.
 
cheekywelshie said:
Yes I do and I focus on rider biomechanics and have chosen an instructor to help on these lines - she lives about 50 miles away though so we only see her every few months but I have noticed a real difference during the lesson in terms of how my riding affects the horse and how he relaxes and comes off the forehand a bit...even if just for a few seconds (Previous instructors just focused on putting the horse in an outline which just led to frustration and was not going to solve the problem, I felt I was wasting money and it wasn't helping my horse so I became a bit fussy about who to have lessons with).

The problem is any relaxation I get during the lesson goes out the window somewhat when it comes to the test. My horse was responsive to the aid and transitions (self carriage is the big challenge, he is built croup high and is not the lightest on his feet so I do a lot of transitions to try and get him off the forehand) -although the canter is very heavy - and flat. Today though the overwhelming feedback written about four/five times was 'could be rounder'.

I also got quite anxious in the warm up because there were a lot of big graceful horses and it felt a bit intimidating...
Click to expand...
if you are on Facebook, check out the Ritter dressage group. I did a free 5 day course on there with straightness as the main objective. I found the exercises really helpful even though I consider myself a fairly educated rider. They got the rider thinking about where the weight should be on turns, and the horses on the course including two of mine, all showed big improvements.
 
I had this comment once from a judge for my ISH that struggles to work correctly. I didnt think the test was terrible but I took it on board and have worked on this lots over winter.. first event next week so we will see how much he has improved!

This is what I did:

- LOTS of lateral work, shoulder in, leg yield in all paces. Leg yield in canter I found made a huge difference.
-lots of transitions paying particular attention to the correct first step (should be hindleg coming underneath with softening of the back whether up/down transition) and transitions within the pace
- once he is 3/4 warmed up and moving forwards stretching in the canter. Now, this is not long and low but asking him to maintain working from behind whilst stretching forwards and down, the poll drops slightly but the neck doesnt change a whole lot. This is a recent change and I can say its made the most difference, after cantering like this for a couple of minutes on each rein he is so much more relaxed and free in all paces- (however he is very fit now and can maintain this with ease.)
- circling from 10m to 20m with leg yield.
- generating a forward going walk
-making sure you NEVER tip forward in your seat

Previous tests last season ranged from 35-31 so I am hoping we will be able to produce a high 20's test now he is moving so much better.

The above was achieved over about 5 months so its no small task and a lifetime of improvement, I still have lots more work to do. A good instructor is defiantely a huge help.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top