Moving from DIY to full livery

[HelenBack]

Can anybody share their experiences of moving from DIY to full livery please, what they like about it and things they struggled with or tips for coping.

I've always been on DIY or assisted DIY and very much like having control of how my horses are managed.

For various reasons I'm now looking at moving to part or full livery, where obviously the routines and management will be set by the yard and I'll have to fall in line.

I do think having all the horses on a yard in one routine is a good thing and obviously would choose somewhere with a basic set up that I'm happy with. I know there will be compromises though and I'm quite worried about the loss of control.

I don't care about other people doing the mucking out, I've done enough of that in my life and so long as it's done to a decent standard they're welcome to it.

It's just more the general looking after of my horse and what if they don't do it how I'd like it to be done, or what if they don't give him enough hay or give him too much etc etc etc.

I think if I could let go a bit it would make my life a lot easier but after all these years of deciding for myself how things are done I have to admit I am quite worried about it all.

Can anyone share any experiences or advice please?

 

[wren123]

I had two big issues, too thin beds with no rubber mats.
Also my pony was on part livery which meant no exercise, she just had daily turn out. I came unexpectedly one day to find her being used in a lesson ridden by a very novice working pupil. I was fuming she was a very well schooled pony that had always been ridden by competent riders. I moved her after that.

This was a decent place, not cheap.

 

[sportsmansB]

I found that I had to place my horse with people whose general principles I agree with, so that even if things weren't done as I expected, I'd most likely not have a problem with it overall.
Also make them aware of your hard no's (if you are super fussy about time turned out, or picking feet, or whatever) as it tends to be the same things done wrong which niggles so let them know from the start.
Have sensible systems for rugs etc so you make it easy for them to get it right for the weather (tags, colour coding, whatever)
Make up examples of your ideal hay net and show them, and make sure that if there are several people involved in your horses care that you show them all the really important things

 

[AntiPuck]

Having gone the other way recently, I'd say make sure you find a place that is open to feedback, and that you know who will actually be taking care of your horse, and that your requests are passed on to them.

I had a generally very good experience, but at times found it annoying getting push-back on things which were my preferences, but it never went beyond push back and they were implemented, so I could live with that. I wouldn't have been happy if my requests were ignored.

I was prepared to do things like make supplements up in advance, etc which I think are worthwhile doing to increase the chances of things being done how you want them, and to keep the staff happy by not making their lives harder. I would also agree with the above, be clear on your hard nos/yesses and be prepared to pick your battles on everything else for an easier life.

I'd say try to get feedback from existing or past full liveries, as otherwise it's impossible to know what sort of people you're dealing with until you move your horses.

 

[Dexter]

I did it and its wonderful! My horse is much happier with the routine and I'm much happier spending time with him not shovelling poop! I was very choosy about the yard he went to though. I made sure they felt the same way as me about management turnout and feeding etc. I kept a very close eye at first, but now I'd have no issues leaving him for months as I know they can be trusted.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Not sure if this is normal, or just her horse. I have a friend who’s horse was on full livery for most of its life. When she went on DIY it couldn’t cope with seeing horses go in/out, being fed at different times. On full they always came in and got fed at the same time.

She moved back to full. Horse is much happier but he can be an anxious type.

 

[HashRouge]

I have just done this, sort of. I am going abroad for a few months and so I have moved my two horses to a yard near my family, where they will be looked after on full livery with my mum/ sister popping in a couple of times a week to check on them. However, I currently have them on DIY on this yard, as I am around for a few weeks before I go. What I like about this is that I have been able to get to know the ladies who will look after them and see how they handle the full livery horses/ what the routine is like. I feel like my horses will be managed in a way I approve of, base don everything I have seen so far. Although my sister is under strict instructions to keep an eye on how thick their beds are!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

After hearing friends horror stories about full livery and the extortionate money they paid to not have their horses looked after properly I wouldn't even consider full livery. I'm sure if you find the right yard you will be fine!!

 

[Sossigpoker]

I had two big issues, too thin beds with no rubber matts.
Also my pony was on part livery which meant no exercise, she just had daily turn out. I came unexpectedly one day to find her being used in a lesson ridden by a very novice working pupil. I was fuming site was a very well schooled pony that had always been ridden by competent riders. I moved her after that.

This was a decent place, not cheap.

Bloody hell. That's beyond unacceptable!

 

[millitiger]

Trust and open communication is most important.

Things I am particular about are horses always having hay in front of them- I would mention this when viewing the yards though to gauge whether this was aligned to yard ethos.
Also having enough bedding, I don't like thin beds.
I was never bothered about grooming or tack cleaning or the yard being perfectly swept or any of those things!

 

[Sossigpoker]

No one will look after your horse like you do. You just need to decide what you can compromise on.
I'd turn up unexpectedly as well as when they expect you , just to see if there's a difference in care.
Most yards I've been at they take short cuts over feet not picked out ,.feed bowls nor washed , no fresh water or no water at all , rugs not changed. Most places will put in lots of bedding when they expect you ,but not if they know you're not coming.
The yard owner might have strict standards but the trouble is that most yard employees are quite young and don't seem to be able to think for themselves, so YO would need to constantly check up on them. So things can easily slip.

So my advice would be to keep an eye , turn up unexpectedly, check if feet have been picked, keep an eye on the horse's condition. And if you have any concerns, raise them straight away.

 

[Griffin]

I agree that you have to find somewhere that roughly aligns with your own ideals on horse care. Where I am, the horses are looked after with such care (and lib hay and daily turnout) and it doesn't matter what time I go up (I go at random times through the week), my mare is always happy and the yard looks tidy. In addition, if they notice any changes or concerns, I am notified straight away.

I think you have to be honest from the start about what your 'red lines' are but equally accept that you may do things differently.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I’ve been on DIY for the past 12 yrs but before that I was on full (part) livery on and off for a number of years.

Things I struggled with were dirty beds, not enough forage and failure to notice injuries. I tried buying extra bedding to top up but they just then didn’t put any in. Injuries I usually went up every evening or got a friend to check which sort of negated the point of full livery. Hay was the biggest bug bear and even when I offered to pay more they wouldn’t let me and wouldn’t feed any more. I used to turn up at 5.30pm to ride and he’d have eaten all or most if his hay. The only compromise they gave was to give half his meagre ration when he came in and I could give him the other half after I rode.

Last yard nearly every horse got bad mud-fever, often horses had run out of water or hay when I got there. She let her dog pee up my tack trunk and the last straw was when he got colic luckily when I was there. She asked me if he was being naughty when obviously he was in pain and then went home and left me there to deal with it. I lived 20 miles away so after the vet came I sat in my car for several hours to make sure it didn’t recur. That was the last straw so I moved.

The next yard wasn’t really set up for full livery and after 3 months the main person doing my horse went off sick and it was either go on DIY or leave. I’m still there but in DIY. Best option I had was when I paid another livery to do mine Mon-Fri but I had total control of feed, hay and bedding and did him at weekends.

 

[Sossigpoker]

As above, things like a raging eye infection wasn't noted and I wasn't told.
Funnily enough I'm leaving my current yard as I have little trust on them and find myself going there every day as I can trust them not to cut corners
And they're raising prices by 40%!

 

[ihatework]

I found that I had to place my horse with people whose general principles I agree with, so that even if things weren't done as I expected, I'd most likely not have a problem with it overall.
Also make them aware of your hard no's (if you are super fussy about time turned out, or picking feet, or whatever) as it tends to be the same things done wrong which niggles so let them know from the start.
Have sensible systems for rugs etc so you make it easy for them to get it right for the weather (tags, colour coding, whatever)
Make up examples of your ideal hay net and show them, and make sure that if there are several people involved in your horses care that you show them all the really important things

I think this is key - the yard management need a similar view to you on care and management. Ask them what they do and see if it aligns with what you want. With the best will in the world if it doesn’t align then you are unlikely to get what you want other than lip service.

Communication is key. My biggest control anxiety is grooms not caring, not noticing the small stuff and not telling me the small stuff. My successful FL experiences are when the staff are happy and care about their job.

You will have to accept imperfection but I agree with having a small amount of hard boundaries - for me this was turnout arrangements, volume of hay and no over rugging

When you are on the right FL it’s completely liberating

 

[Bobthecob15]

It really depends on the yard! We're on full livery (we'll it's really part as no exercise) and it's great, the horses love the routine and the YO is brilliant and does an excellent job looking after the horses with varying different needs. I would recommend you speak to existing liveries as they will give you the most reliable feedback.

We'd not be able to do DIY due to work and family commitments at the moment so we have little other option...but of all the part or full livery places I've been at I'd say this is the best. Of course if it were up to me he'd have a full muck out rather than a skip every day and I'd probably over feed the hay! I'd also probably change rugs every day whereas here they keep their turnouts on in the stable unless they get soaked...but these are really not that significant!

 

[nagblagger]

[QUOTE="wren123, post: I had two big issues, too thin beds with no rubber matts.
Also my pony was on part livery which meant no exercise, she just had daily turn out. I came unexpectedly one day to find her being used in a lesson ridden by a very novice working pupil. I was fuming site was a very well schooled pony that had always been ridden by competent riders. I moved her after that.

This was a decent place, not cheap.[/QUOTE]


OMG - The red mist would have descended, I would have gone in the arena and taken the pupil straight off, and reported them publicly.
I'm DIY because i'm a control freak, they all live out 24/7 but I have a good friend who knows exactly what to feed them and how i like things to be done when i'm on holiday, she even sent me a video of the donkeys braying today!

 

[ycbm]

Can anybody share their experiences of moving from DIY to full livery please, what they like about it and things they struggled with or tips for coping.

I've always been on DIY or assisted DIY and very much like having control of how my horses are managed.

For various reasons I'm now looking at moving to part or full livery, where obviously the routines and management will be set by the yard and I'll have to fall in line.

I do think having all the horses on a yard in one routine is a good thing and obviously would choose somewhere with a basic set up that I'm happy with. I know there will be compromises though and I'm quite worried about the loss of control.

I don't care about other people doing the mucking out, I've done enough of that in my life and so long as it's done to a decent standard they're welcome to it.

It's just more the general looking after of my horse and what if they don't do it how I'd like it to be done, or what if they don't give him enough hay or give him too much etc etc etc.

I think if I could let go a bit it would make my life a lot easier but after all these years of deciding for myself how things are done I have to admit I am quite worried about it all.

Can anyone share any experiences or advice please?

I'm a control freak. It took me a long time and a lot of tears to come to terms with losing control.

I'm on my third yard, second location, in 7 months but have found one where my horse is looked after exactly as I would look after him myself. The yard, and in particular the way the yard manager believes that horses should be managed, is crucial. My current yard manager is old school like me and we are 100% on the same page. For example, I know that the yard I left didn't turn out today because of the rain. My horse has been out at least 5 hours, probably more I'm not quite sure.

I love spending time with him instead of picking up muck.

My body is loving not humping around bedding and haylage and wheelbarrows full of muck. A painful shoulder has stopped hurting.

I absolutely adore being able to wake up and say "hey, let's sleep somewhere else tonight" and take spontaneous, or planned, breaks without worrying about him.

Honestly? I wouldn't go back, I would stop keeping a horse.
.

 

[hollyandivy123]

things i have found over the years at full livery yards....
thin beds, not enough hay or put in at 3.30pm to last to 8am, staff bringing in 2-3 large horses at a time without putting the headcollar on properly..........part liveries putting horses on ridden livery just so the yard owner would talk to them...mucking out a wheel barrow at the end of the day as yet again horse been missed, not being told of injuries, putting a horse on full exercise livery as having to be the other side of the country due to a family emergency, yard didn't horse went footy and they bunged a muzzle on and didn't tell me (found out for the other liveries and the horse had a muzzle on it when i got back!!)
pro rider at another yard promised that they were using each horses individual tack.......8 horses ended up with ring worm from a girth including the pro's horses

mouldy hay because it's only a leisure horse and not competition and the yard was running out.....

put anyone of yet?

 

[mariew]

I have done it in the past and currently so for another reason. Assisted DIY is my preference as I've had similar experiences previously (not currently) to some others, turning up and horsing no water, hay being skimped on to save money, eye infections missed etc. They won't spend hours on your horse like you would but hopefully you can find something that works.id try to turn up relatively regularly at random times.

 

[Sossigpoker]

things i have found over the years at full livery yards....
thin beds, not enough hay or put in at 3.30pm to last to 8am, staff bringing in 2-3 large horses at a time without putting the headcollar on properly..........part liveries putting horses on ridden livery just so the yard owner would talk to them...mucking out a wheel barrow at the end of the day as yet again horse been missed, not being told of injuries, putting a horse on full exercise livery as having to be the other side of the country due to a family emergency, yard didn't horse went footy and they bunged a muzzle on and didn't tell me (found out for the other liveries and the horse had a muzzle on it when i got back!!)
pro rider at another yard promised that they were using each horses individual tack.......8 horses ended up with ring worm from a girth including the pro's horses

mouldy hay because it's only a leisure horse and not competition and the yard was running out.....

put anyone of yet?

Sadly doesn't even sound that unusual. ?

 

[marmalade76]

Bloody hell. That's beyond unacceptable!

I've heard worse, may even have been on here but once read a post by a lady who had her hunter on full livery somewhere, turned up unexpectedly one day to see her horse coming off a lorry after having been sent out as a hireling!

 

[SO1]

I moved from grass livery to part livery when a horse died from sycamore poisoning on the yard and I wanted to find a sycamore free yard.

The only niggles on part livery is that they come in quite early between 2.30-3pm so only get 7 hours turnout a day, limited choice of feeds included and costs. A good part livery is £800+.

Benefits are don't need to take AL for farrier and routine vet appointments. If need to travel for business or visit family or sick no need to worry about trying to find someone to look after horse.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I've heard worse, may even have been on here but once read a post by a lady who had her hunter on full livery somewhere, turned up unexpectedly one day to see her horse coming off a lorry after having been sent out as a hireling!

And this is why I really struggle to trust anyone with my horse !

 

[dogatemysalad]

It all comes down to the YO. I moved to full livery after decades on DIY and thought no one could match my standards. I was wrong.
YO is old school with over 30 years experience. The care is first class. Horses are skipped out hourly when they are in and have a routine where they always know what's going to happen next. One of the benefits I hadn't appreciated, is that they are watched while in the field. On two occasions, YO has observed my horse after a field injury and immediately given first aid whilst phoning me.
Another bonus, is that she can get an immediate response from farriers, vets, saddlers and dentists who are in high demand and difficult to pin down. If a horse is ill, she's there with advice and cups of tea and will care for them through the night.
A good YO runs a tight ship, listens to her liveries, manages her staff and has enormous tact, balanced by a no nonsense attitude. I just wish my YO could spare some time to run the NHS.

 

[EllenJay]

things i have found over the years at full livery yards....
thin beds, not enough hay or put in at 3.30pm to last to 8am, staff bringing in 2-3 large horses at a time without putting the headcollar on properly..........part liveries putting horses on ridden livery just so the yard owner would talk to them...mucking out a wheel barrow at the end of the day as yet again horse been missed, not being told of injuries, putting a horse on full exercise livery as having to be the other side of the country due to a family emergency, yard didn't horse went footy and they bunged a muzzle on and didn't tell me (found out for the other liveries and the horse had a muzzle on it when i got back!!)
pro rider at another yard promised that they were using each horses individual tack.......8 horses ended up with ring worm from a girth including the pro's horses

mouldy hay because it's only a leisure horse and not competition and the yard was running out.....

put anyone of yet?

I have been at a number of full livery yards - and have never experienced any of this type of behaviour. My current yard, in times of bad weather asks each owner if they want their horse in or out, regularly sends photos, especially if they know you are away. Beds are managed how you want (may be an extra cost if you want more bedding than the one bale a week), inform you immediately if they have any health worries about your horse.
in fact thry probably look after the horses better than most owners

 

[HelenBack]

Thanks for all the feedback, good and bad, you've certainly given me lots to think about!

To expand a bit on my original post, one of the reasons I'm looking at full livery is because of the lack of suitable DIY yards in my area. These all tend to be based on the same model of cramming too many horses into the fields, leading to chaos at bring in times in the winter, and often the fields ending up being closed when the weather is bad. Turnout is a big deal to me and I'm sick of it all so looking at other options.

I've found a couple of yards that are about a 25 minute drive away that only offer part or full livery and while that distance is doable, I'd ideally only want to do it once a day for the most part, and would want my mucking out done to make up for the increased travel. I would be able to go on a daily basis apart from when on holiday etc, and my work pattern means I'd be turning up at random times on different days so would be able to monitor things. So I guess this does mean I still get to have quite a bit of control of the actual care of my horse and it's more things like overall routines and hay allowances that I need to think about.

I've met both of the yard owners and liked them both, they both seemed down to earth and no nonsense. One was probably a stronger personality and perhaps a bit more rigid in how she runs things but her views on horse management aligned very closely with mine so hopefully that wouldn't cause too many problems. The other was a proper old school horse woman but I had the impression she was very accommodating whilst not taking any nonsense. She showed me the feed room full of supplements when I said mine was on a few, and you can have a choice of bedding there and all the beds she showed me were deep and clean. Both yards have all matted stables and automatic drinkers but hay allowances would be something I'd need to check up on. Both yards also offer all day turnout every day throughout the winter and only bring in early if the horses get sick of being out and say they want in. I've driven past several times to check up on this and the horses have always been out when I have.

I've also been lucky enough to speak to current or former liveries at both places and have had good reports saying the horses are well cared for, turnout arrangements acceptable, yard owners good and professional and so on. The girl I spoke to at one place said nothing was too much trouble for the yard owner and livery at the other place said the owner doesn't tolerate any bitchiness, which is a problem I've encountered on a few of the yards I've been on and generally can't be doing with.

So I think all in all they both sounds like decent places and it's just my fear holding me back! There are differences in things like herd sizes that perhaps might swing my decision. I know that because of how yards like this work the horses would come in earlier than I'd ideally like at both places but I guess this would be the thing I'd have to compromise all else being well and at least if they're getting out every day then that's probably more important in the grand scheme of things.

So I think maybe I'd need to double check about the hay arrangements and also hoof picking for when I'm not there as I am a bit fussy about that. I don't care about turnout rugs being left on overnight and I prefer not to wash legs which would hopefully go down well in terms of time saving. I'm happy to make up feeds to help out and save the staff time but I would want injuries to be checked for every day to make sure nothing was inadvertently missed.

Lots to think about there but it has helped me clarify my thoughts a bit. Thank you.

 

[ArklePig]

I had two big issues, too thin beds with no rubber mats.
Also my pony was on part livery which meant no exercise, she just had daily turn out. I came unexpectedly one day to find her being used in a lesson ridden by a very novice working pupil. I was fuming she was a very well schooled pony that had always been ridden by competent riders. I moved her after that.

This was a decent place, not cheap.

Same thing happened my sister many years ago, and the rider was wearing spurs. She must have been about 11 and she stormed into the arena and told the rider to dismount.

 

[WelshD]

I had one on full livery for a while and loved it, it was amazing to turn up to a clean pony wearing clean rugs on a good bed in a clean stable, the care was second to none.

The only thing I didn't like (and which was my own fault) is that I became very dithery over simple things such as asking the owner what rug to put on after exercise etc.. basic decisions and seeking advice on things that I wouldn't think twice about normally, I felt like a novice owner sometimes but it wasn't their fault

On talking to various friends over the years the biggest bugbear I have heard from them is lack of bedding

 

[HelenBack]

I had one on full livery for a while and loved it, it was amazing to turn up to a clean pony wearing clean rugs on a good bed in a clean stable, the care was second to none.

The only thing I didn't like (and which was my own fault) is that I became very dithery over simple things such as asking the owner what rug to put on after exercise etc.. basic decisions and seeking advice on things that I wouldn't think twice about normally, I felt like a novice owner sometimes but it wasn't their fault

On talking to various friends over the years the biggest bugbear I have heard from them is lack of bedding

I'm dithery already, I need to order a new pair of wellies and can't even decide what size to get!