Moving Yards......WWD

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Quick scenario for you:

I'm on a DIY yard with my 2 horses - have been there for 6 months, trouble free. YO does not run it as a registered business - its all cash in hand - no contract and at no point was a notice period to leave ever mentioned.

So, fast forward 6 months I have decided to move the horses as 2 stables came up at yard round the corner from my house - like within walking distance - only 2 other horses on yard, a married couple who I have known for years, no school but fab hacking and RI a short hack away so I can use her school and cheaper to boot - pure DIY with plenty of storage, acreage for 4 horses and laid back YO who leaves liveries to get on with it. I have no problem on my current yard, this move is purely to suit me.

I plan on moving them end of this week so last night went to tell my YO and she absolutely lost it with me - she first of all told me to get the horses off the yard that night - to which I calmly asked her how she thought I was going to that (I have no transport) - then she said the horses wouldn't be leaving until I paid the months livery - gates would be locked so I couldn't leave - I politely told her she had no legal right to do that. The she marched over to my two fellow liveries who are also friends and dragged them into it asking them to mediate (wtf??). I politely and calmly pointed out to her that I had signed no contract and she had not told me about a months notice period so I was not paying one but she ranted on about unreliable people and how she was fed up being let down yadda yadda yadda - it was all very uncomfortable and quite frankly embarrassing. SO in the end to prevent her from having a heart attack right there I offered to meet her half way and give her 2 weeks livery in lieu of notice and I'm moving the horses tomorrow. I was not expecting her reaction - I have never left a yard on bad terms with a YO but I'm actually pretty mad this morning now - and Im regretting telling her I would give her anything at all.

Apparently she did the same to a previous livery, cause she kept bringing her up in the conversation but the story she tells is completely different to the story the livery tells.

Are my actions fair do you think? I haven't paid her anything yet and I'm half tempted to just leave and tell her to stuff off - that might just be cause I'm really mad thought :(
 
Oh yikes, I don't know if you remember something very similar happening to me - very sorry you have ended up in this situation, it's horrible isn't it? I ended up leaving an envelope containing what I owed her in my opinion - not in hers. That way my conscience was clear. I think you were more than fair in what you offered her. My concern would be the locking the gates thing and if i thought the horses were in any danger at all I would pay the two weeks to keep the peace but with a recommendation to her to get a contract drawn up for future liveries to prevent her feeling she has been let down by people not adhering to rules that they were unaware existed...
 
I did tell her a contract was a good idea if she wanted to implement rules but she waved her hand at me and insisted that contracts don't work. I beg to differ as a YO I had previously had a contract with me and because I had agreed to give a months notice I gave her the months notice money and left a few days later - as a result I'm still on very good terms with her. She simply doesnt want anything that would show her yard as a business income and its certainly not registered and she doesnt pay tax on it - its cash in hand for her - so the less above board it is the better
 
Do you pay weekly or monthly?

However whether you pay weekly or monthly giving notice on Monday evening that you are taking horses at the end of the week is too short and is unfair.
 
Jeezo, where do you *find* these yards run by nutjobs? I've never had a YO be anything but professional when I left their yard for one reason or another.

I think paying her two weeks is generous and a nice compromise to keep the peace since, as you say, there's no contract or notice period. Like you, I'd probably be tempted to then take my horses and leave nothing, but too chickensh** to really do it and thus leave her the two week's money anyway. And since that's what you said you would do, you should probably follow through with it. I like Emilieu's suggestion to add a wee note that she may want to consider writing up a formal contract with any future liveries so expectations on both sides are clear.
 
Oh dear... horrible situation. She doesn't sound like the easiest or most rational of people so I guess there is no 'right' way of dealing with this.

I would have said 2 weeks notice is pretty standard for quitting a DIY place, one month MAXIMUM but this is generally stipulated at the point of moving in... I find that ones that don't have contracts and or at least a verbal agreement, tend to be the tricky ones who tend to take offense and get upset as soon as you give reasonable notice and try and throw you off sooner anyway...

I would give her the two weeks money and leave with a clear concience personally...
but I can understand your anger and frustration... I REALLY can....
 
amymay said:
It's not - providing the OP pays her full notice period.
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Absolutely, and it sounds, as the OP states that she was "prepared to meet halfway", as if she'd said "I'm taking my horses on Friday night and will pay you up until then" - ie less than one week's notice which is too short and unfair and would have had the OP wildly upset had it been the other way about!
 
jemima*askin said:
Absolutely, and it sounds, as the OP states that she was "prepared to meet halfway", as if she'd said "I'm taking my horses on Friday night and will pay you up until then" - ie less than one week's notice which is too short and unfair and would have had the OP wildly upset had it been the other way about!
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Well there's no 'meeting half way' with a notice period. It has to be paid for in full - regardless of when you leave.
 
Do you pay monthly?

I went through this a few months back. The replies on here told me that even though no paper contact was signed, I had a verbal contract. I looked into this and found this right. So I paid a months notice and left a few days later.

If you pay weekly you are expected to give a weeks notice, 2 weeks pay 2 weeks notice and so on.

It does sound as if your YO is right. I would pay the full ammount and go.
 
TBH contract or not it is polite to give at least one payment term (ie 1week or month) as notice. I'm not surprised YO was annoyed but it sounds like she was totally unprofessional. Either way, not a nice position to be in :(
 
You can move your horses whenever you want but if you pay monthly you should probably pay til the end of the month. Tho the YO is silly not to have this written in a contract.
 
The other good advice I got give was people talk, the Horse world is very small and for any reason the new yard doesn't work out and you need to move on, you might just find no YO'S want you there.
 
jemima*askin said:
Absolutely, and it sounds, as the OP states that she was "prepared to meet halfway", as if she'd said "I'm taking my horses on Friday night and will pay you up until then" - ie less than one week's notice which is too short and unfair and would have had the OP wildly upset had it been the other way about!
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My experience is that YOs need to be prepared for that sort of thing. If you will operate your yard, without contracts and the like, below the radar in order to hide from HM Revenue Customs, you surely have to realize your liveries might up and leave whenever they want and otherwise do whatever they want to do. Either way, it's not an excuse for the YO to go ballistic, tell Hevs that she needs to leave that night, and then threaten to lock her horses up on the yard.
 
I can never understand these sorts of posts if I'm honest. Moving horses is not difficult.

You give appropriate notice, and then move - or pay the difference.
 
CBFan said:
Locks can easily be removed and or gates lifted off the hinges... the threat of my horse being locked in, wouldn't scare me one bit.
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You are braver than me then. I'd freak out. A yard near us has had two horses on 'ransom' for months now over an unpaid livery bill. The very thought of not having total control over him would horrify me!
 
amymay said:
I can never understand these sorts of posts if I'm honest. Moving horses is not difficult.

You give appropriate notice, and then move - or pay the difference.
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It is when it is unclear what the appropriate notice is that things go wrong - I gave more than the month's notice stipulated in my contract but apparently i gave it on the wrong day so it didn't count...??
 
Hevs said:
Are my actions fair do you think? I haven't paid her anything yet and I'm half tempted to just leave and tell her to stuff off - that might just be cause I'm really mad thought :(
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Even you do not have a written contract then a verbal contract is assumed.

A general guideline used in law (this applies to livery, flat rental etc) is that if there is no written notice, reasonable notice should be given and how often you pay your rent is used.

So if you pay monthly you should give a month''s notice, weekly a week etc.

Yard manager has no right to kick you off that night (they have the same obligation to give you reasonable notice) and lock gates etc but they do have a right to ask you for the money owed for that notice period

Sounds like she has reacted very strongly but did you not consider it was common courtesy to let her know and give her a chance to fill your space?
 
IMHO a months notice is usually given (whether you have contract or not). I have been on yards with strict contracts and some with none - I would always give 1 month notice period (regardless of contract). Of course as long as you pay, you can move horses whenever, but I do think your original 1 week is not fair - sorry.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
IMHO a months notice is usually given (whether you have contract or not). I have been on yards with strict contracts and some with none - I would always give 1 month notice period (regardless of contract). Of course as long as you pay, you can move horses whenever, but I do think your original 1 week is not fair - sorry.
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But there is a contract, it's verbal and implied.
 
If you pay monthly you should give a months notice, whether there is a contract or not.
YO's tax position is neither here nor there tbh, shop her to the taxman if you feel like it.
Agree she behave unprofessionally and there is no need to be dramatic or rude, but that doesn't mean she isn't due notice period payment.
 
I do have a contract at my current yard and I would have to give a months notice if I was wanting to leave.

But the yard I was on just over a year ago had no contracts and I paid weekly. I gave the Yard Manager my notice on the Monday, I had alreadly paid up for another two weeks and explained to the yard manager that I would be moving my horse that Thursday (for medical reasons) but would like to keep some of my stuff there for a little longer (had a lot to move with only a ford KA to do it with). YM was happy with this and I actually had all my stuff cleared out by that weekend.

I do think a reasonable amount of notice should be given and although I moved my horse within days of telling the YM I had actually paid up for two more full weeks rent. I only missed at such short notice on the vets advice
 
I've never been on a yard that had a contract but I always a give a months notice, I just think that I would want a months notice to leave, so it only seems fair to do the same back.

IF the YO wanted you off the yard how much notice would you want her to give you? Would you be annoyed if she told you on Monday that she wanted you off by Friday?
 
martlin said:
If you pay monthly you should give a months notice, whether there is a contract or not.
YO's tax position is neither here nor there tbh, shop her to the taxman if you feel like it.
Agree she behave unprofessionally and there is no need to be dramatic or rude, but that doesn't mean she isn't due notice period payment.
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I said nothing about shopping her to the tax man so no idea where you get that - I simply mentioned it as that's why shes got no contract in place and doesn't want one as it would show she is running a legit business and could get her into bother - what she does with her money is her business.
 
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