Mr horse is here but problem ?

[Honey08]

I can fully understand why you moved your horse OP, and the others who moved their horses to live alone for their reasons. I brought my horse home from a livery yard to being on her own before I'd intended, and she had to be alone for a few weeks. She was fine, in fact, as people have said, she was nicer to be around. Despite all this, I still got a small pony on loan as a companion. After a few months they did become pair bonded and a total pain, its true. For me it was much more hassle, but I still would never have gone back to keeping her alone. We took on some liveries and bought another ourselves, until there was a group of six, and the "obsessive pair bonding" healed iteself naturally once they went out as a herd.

Nowadays our two ponies have been sold, and we don't do livery anymore, so we are down to two again. They are becoming bonded, but I'm hoping that because they will be going to the same shows and events it won't be as much as a problem. Even if it were, I'd have to find a way round it, and I'd never seperate them and have them alone..

I am another who likes horses to be as close to nature as possible. My two are clipped and working, but still get time together without rugs for a half hour now and again to have a good groom etc. Does that make me a fluffy bunny?? I think not. They still compete, hack out alone and event, I just try to reward them with letting them live the life they would choose when I can..

There is a mare across the valley from us who is in her late 20s. She has spent all her life alone - in a 20 acre field with sheep and cows. To all extent and purposes she is fine, but if you ever ride past her and let your horse say hello over the wall she instantly goes into grooming mode. She has also clambered across a big drainage ditch and up a stone wall to say hello to our gelding - getting herself stuck in the process, so deep down I would say this outwardly calm and happy horse is very lonely.

 

[Wagtail]

My first pony lived at home... alone... with no issues. He went away as a companion, then came back alone. No issues
Having stables at home, we have often had 1 horse at home when looking for a yard or something, one was an antisocial mare, and Dan who is very sociable. Dan called on the first day, but didn't bother afterwards. Both stayed here for up to about 3 weeks at a time or a little more, Dimples (the pony) was here for months at a time. None of them ever suffered for it and soon settled into a routine.

How does a horse express loneliness? He may call out for a day or so, but when no friend comes he gives up. Just because you have no issues does not mean the horse does not feel sad or lonely. I think that is what most people mean when they say their horse is fine alone. They mean that THEY have no issues or difficulties to deal with. It is true that often such horses then become 'difficult' when they have company. The horse is happier with company and causes problems when separated. But whose welfare are we thinking about?

 

[Wagtail]

I can fully understand why you moved your horse OP, and the others who moved their horses to live alone for their reasons. I brought my horse home from a livery yard to being on her own before I'd intended, and she had to be alone for a few weeks. She was fine, in fact, as people have said, she was nicer to be around. Despite all this, I still got a small pony on loan as a companion. After a few months they did become pair bonded and a total pain, its true. For me it was much more hassle, but I still would never have gone back to keeping her alone. We took on some liveries and bought another ourselves, until there was a group of six, and the "obsessive pair bonding" healed iteself naturally once they went out as a herd.

Nowadays our two ponies have been sold, and we don't do livery anymore, so we are down to two again. They are becoming bonded, but I'm hoping that because they will be going to the same shows and events it won't be as much as a problem. Even if it were, I'd have to find a way round it, and I'd never seperate them and have them alone..

I am another who likes horses to be as close to nature as possible. My two are clipped and working, but still get time together without rugs for a half hour now and again to have a good groom etc. Does that make me a fluffy bunny?? I think not. They still compete, hack out alone and event, I just try to reward them with letting them live the life they would choose when I can..

There is a mare across the valley from us who is in her late 20s. She has spent all her life alone - in a 20 acre field with sheep and cows. To all extent and purposes she is fine, but if you ever ride past her and let your horse say hello over the wall she instantly goes into grooming mode. She has also clambered across a big drainage ditch and up a stone wall to say hello to our gelding - getting herself stuck in the process, so deep down I would say this outwardly calm and happy horse is very lonely.

That was very well put and sums up my feelings completely.

 

[hellspells]

To the op, I got bored of the bashing towards the choice of keeping horses on their own after page 4. But I wanted to say to you I hope it works out. I had a mare on her own for nearly 3 years. She was fine, we hacked out with others and she competed too and never once did she show signs of it being a issue. She was a wonderful horse who was very much "mine". I only moved her in the end as it was best for both of us. She then went out with a herd and was a terror! She was very much alpha mare, the way she was until the day I lost her. So cutting a long story short you can keep (some) horses on their own without feeling incredibly guilty about it. Some won't settle but don't make any snap decisions. Good luck

 

[somethingorother]

O.p. ignoring all the other comments, if you are going to be worried about him so much, which it sounds like you are, then I think the question should be more 'why not look for ways to find him companionship' than looking for reasons why you should. If you can afford for example a mini / shetland then it would be nice for him to have a friend. All these people saying they keep their horse alone due to them bullying others or rug ripping, they have no real relation to your situation. From what I read, your boy was happy with the company of others. Why should he have to get used to being on his own unless there is no other option? I think the idea of offering livery of some kind is a great one, and its nice to have other people around too. I think if you can find a way to have another horse around then why wouldn't you. It would be a no brainer for me.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Sorry, but no horse should be kept on its own without a very good reason. Some do get used to it, but they are herd animals and keeping them away from others of their kind is cruel IMO. Lone horses have been shown to sleep less than others as they are in a constant state of alert. I would never even contemplate keeping one on its own.

My sentiments exactly. Horses are HERD animals end of. Makes me really sad and angry when out hacking and see horses in a field on their own. Unless there is a very, very good reason I think it is wrong to impose our perception of how horses should be kept on horses. In the wild horses would be living in herds. Before anyone says that they are not in the wild etc...... domesticated horses still have the same traits and behaviours as wild horses. You can't breed out horse socialisation and instinct. I suggest some owners ( not aimed at you Wagtail) bring up a pew and go and sit and watch their horses in a field with others and monitor their behaviour. Grrrh

 

[niagaraduval]

Update - Just been to have a look he is stood eating his hay.

His stable is big enough (it's huge actually) for another horse or a pony. I am currently talking to my loanee about finding a rescue or companion pony for him ! I think he will be happier with company.
He isn't neighing a a lot anymore, he is getting settled now but I would prefer him to be happy in any way I can make that happen. Am mooching around on a few sites that have animals to offer - free to a good home.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Update - Just been to have a look he is stood eating his hay.

His stable is big enough (it's huge actually) for another horse or a pony. I am currently talking to my loanee about finding a rescue or companion pony for him ! I think he will be happier with company.
He isn't neighing a a lot anymore, he is getting settled now but I would prefer him to be happy in any way I can make that happen. Am mooching around on a few sites that have animals to offer - free to a good home.

Just watch out for pair bonding issues!!! They are murder and can cause more hassel than they are worth. if it were me I would leave him a week and see how he is eating and weight wise and if he is happy before getting another one. What will you do if he doesnt accept another animal in his stable?? What if he is one of these horses that doent like the littlies (some horses are petrified of them ) I wouldnt rush into anything just because some people in here wouldnt do it. Im sure we all do things that others wouldnt do

 

[Wagtail]

Just watch out for pair bonding issues!!! They are murder and can cause more hassel than they are worth. if it were me I would leave him a week and see how he is eating and weight wise and if he is happy before getting another one. What will you do if he doesnt accept another animal in his stable?? What if he is one of these horses that doent like the littlies (some horses are petrified of them ) I wouldnt rush into anything just because some people in here wouldnt do it. Im sure we all do things that others wouldnt do

Now this really does take the biscuit. OP has decided she would like to find him a friend and here you are trying to talk her out of it! All you can think about are the problems for the humans. Nothing about the poor horses.

 

[Ladyinred]

Now this really does take the biscuit. OP has decided she would like to find him a friend and here you are trying to talk her out of it! All you can think about are the problems for the humans. Nothing about the poor horses.

It's always the way Wagtail. Us humans are very good at projecting what WE think onto our horses. 'Oh he/she is fine on his/her own' Sorry, except for some very rare exceptions that is simply not true. So few people look at things through the eyes of their horse and consider the fears and insecurities that go with being alone, and that's before we mention loneliness.

People snatch at comments made by the 'famous' NH trainers and then use them out of context. Such as the comment somewhere about horses being driven out of the herd. Then they forget to mention that the young stallions form a bachelor herd until they are big enough and strong enough to have their own band of mares.

As I stated earlier I fully understand why the OP moved her horse and she seems to be considering the options carefully re a companion. It's some of the 'my horse has been on his/her own for years' comments that are riling me.. and then trying to justify them with complete hogswash.

 

[luckyoldme]

I agree with some of what you say wagtail but it really isn t as black and white as you make it sound. Every one bangs on about natural states and herd behaviour.... My natural state is running round naked somewhere hot having babies every year and being dead a few years ago... however i have adapted to my present situation.
I have a real bully of a horse. I have lost friends because of his behaviour (ok so they were cows anyways but evan so) He stood on his own for a year because of the damage he caused. At the moment he is with 5 draught horses and although happy as larry he is frighteningly unintimidated by them after only 3 days. If he bites again (really scar making bites then he will be fenced off permanantly.

what if the op rushes out and lands herself with a horse like mine... they come in all shapes and sizes... then she has two horses that can t be grazed together.
My advice would be that although ideally its best for horses to be kept in company... it s certainly not cruel to keep them alone. I would get to know the horse and see how he settles before rushing to the sales to bid agains t the meat man.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

As I stated earlier I fully understand why the OP moved her horse and she seems to be considering the options carefully re a companion. It's some of the 'my horse has been on his/her own for years' comments that are riling me.. and then trying to justify them with complete hogswash.

So what to you is hogswash then?? How well do you know the posters of this 'hogwash' and their situations?? Just so as people know what your qualifications are to making such a sweeping statement.

I agree with some of what you say wagtail but it really isn t as black and white as you make it sound. Every one bangs on about natural states and herd behaviour.... My natural state is running round naked somewhere hot having babies every year and being dead a few years ago... however i have adapted to my present situation.
I have a real bully of a horse. I have lost friends because of his behaviour (ok so they were cows anyways but evan so) He stood on his own for a year because of the damage he caused. At the moment he is with 5 draught horses and although happy as larry he is frighteningly unintimidated by them after only 3 days. If he bites again (really scar making bites then he will be fenced off permanantly.

what if the op rushes out and lands herself with a horse like mine... they come in all shapes and sizes... then she has two horses that can t be grazed together.
My advice would be that although ideally its best for horses to be kept in company... it s certainly not cruel to keep them alone. I would get to know the horse and see how he settles before rushing to the sales to bid agains t the meat man.

What a fabulously put post *like*

 

[Spring Feather]

however i have adapted to my present situation.

Just as horses are very adaptable too. They adapt to being stabled, being ridden, being kept in little paddocks, having their field mates chosen for them, tied up, trailered, fed all manners of unsuitable feed; none of these relate at all to horses living in the wild (not that I compare domestic horses to wild horses but some on here have).

OP, I've known many people go out and buy a companion pony and then have to buy another companion pony for the companion pony.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Just as horses are very adaptable too. They adapt to being stabled, being ridden, being kept in little paddocks, having their field mates chosen for them, tied up, trailered, fed all manners of unsuitable feed; none of these relate at all to horses living in the wild (not that I compare domestic horses to wild horses but some on here have).

OP, I've known many people go out and buy a companion pony and then have to buy another companion pony for the companion pony.

Yup agree SF hencewhy my horses were in different places for a while lol, needed another comapnion for my mare after she went over the door in the time it took for me to take the gelding to the field. This was a few months AFTER I had to stop taking her to the field first as she would come back over or through the fencing rock and hard place with horses

 

[Waffles]

Sorry if someone has already said this, but isn't there some legislation now that requires horse owners to provide some sort of company (that could include a goat or sheep apparently), and if you do not provide company for your horse, your horse can be taken away from you as it is now seen as gross neglect.

 

[niagaraduval]

How soon do you all think I will know if he will need a companion or not ?
He got here last night so it's only been about 24hours. Will without a doubt look into getting a rescue if needed to keep ned happy.

 

[Spring Feather]

The 5 Freedoms. They're a bit ambiguous and are only guidelines as far as I am aware, not laws.

 

[Wagtail]

It's always the way Wagtail. Us humans are very good at projecting what WE think onto our horses. 'Oh he/she is fine on his/her own' Sorry, except for some very rare exceptions that is simply not true. So few people look at things through the eyes of their horse and consider the fears and insecurities that go with being alone, and that's before we mention loneliness.

People snatch at comments made by the 'famous' NH trainers and then use them out of context. Such as the comment somewhere about horses being driven out of the herd. Then they forget to mention that the young stallions form a bachelor herd until they are big enough and strong enough to have their own band of mares.

As I stated earlier I fully understand why the OP moved her horse and she seems to be considering the options carefully re a companion. It's some of the 'my horse has been on his/her own for years' comments that are riling me.. and then trying to justify them with complete hogswash.

Yes, same here. I have had to deal with separation issues countless times and they are a pain, but they CAN be overcome.

 

[Spring Feather]

How soon do you all think I will know if he will need a companion or not ?
He got here last night so it's only been about 24hours. Will without a doubt look into getting a rescue if needed to keep ned happy.

I'd give it a week or two. I really would try to get him out and about with other riders though so that he realises he has not been abandoned by his own kind and so that he can still interact with them. Keeping him alone is not the end of the world and can be managed if you put the time and effort into it

 

[Waffles]

The 5 Freedoms. They're a bit ambiguous and are only guidelines as far as I am aware, not laws.

Ok - it's just what someone at our yard said the other day - like the RSPCA could do you for not having fresh water etc. I may well be wrong.

 

[Wagtail]

I agree with some of what you say wagtail but it really isn t as black and white as you make it sound. Every one bangs on about natural states and herd behaviour.... My natural state is running round naked somewhere hot having babies every year and being dead a few years ago... however i have adapted to my present situation.
I have a real bully of a horse. I have lost friends because of his behaviour (ok so they were cows anyways but evan so) He stood on his own for a year because of the damage he caused. At the moment he is with 5 draught horses and although happy as larry he is frighteningly unintimidated by them after only 3 days. If he bites again (really scar making bites then he will be fenced off permanantly.

what if the op rushes out and lands herself with a horse like mine... they come in all shapes and sizes... then she has two horses that can t be grazed together.
My advice would be that although ideally its best for horses to be kept in company... it s certainly not cruel to keep them alone. I would get to know the horse and see how he settles before rushing to the sales to bid agains t the meat man.

I agree, as I have said a couple of times in this thread, that there are some horses that cannot live with others because they are anti social or phobic of others. However, I wouldn't mind betting that humans have made them that way.

 

[Spring Feather]

Ok - it's just what someone at our yard said the other day - like the RSPCA could do you for not having fresh water etc. I may well be wrong.

The RSPCA could do you for not giving your horse access to water, fresh water would be a bit OTT considering so many people (myself included) use automatically filling troughs.

 

[Wagtail]

How soon do you all think I will know if he will need a companion or not ?
He got here last night so it's only been about 24hours. Will without a doubt look into getting a rescue if needed to keep ned happy.

Virtually ALL horses will eventually 'settle' and accept their lot in life. Some will be quiet sooner than others. Eventually he will learn that box walking and calliung out brings no relief to his loneliness and just accept that he is on his own. Of course there are a few that will never ever settle and will lose weight and be almost impossible to deal with. But either way, that is just looking at it from our own convenient perspective. You will always know he would prefer a friend of his own kind.

 

[amandap]

Yes, horses are adaptable but at a cost to their well being very often. The point of 'natural' is to try and understand horses as a species and provide what they need as far as we can. Our needs are taken into account of course but we must think carefully (as op is) about the consequences of our husbandry on an animal that evolved to live in herds and be free ranging and try our best to mitigate negative ones and reduce stressors. Horses often do not show/exhibit stress in a way that we can notice until it is extreme, we mustn't forget this point.

We have a choice in how we live and can choose to go to a hot climate and run naked if we so wish. Domestic horses do not have any choice in where and how they live we control all this and so we are 100% responsible.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

In my example stated above it's not my horse and its not my opinion. Their horse is well suited to being alone and happier that way. End of story. You don't know the horse or situation so I'd rather you didn't quote me with a sarcastic, pointless comment. Likewise nobody on this topic knows OP's horse personally nor the situation very well, so nobody is qualified to judge or critique, only offer advice they deem suitable.

I will always find horses kept alone sad. It's not sarcastic to think that, you can disagree with me if you like, but that's what I think.

OP, I hope that everything works out for you and your horse. you obviously care about him very much.

 

[Spring Feather]

Yes, horses are adaptable but at a cost to their well being very often. The point of 'natural' is to try and understand horses as a species and provide what they need as far as we can. Our needs are taken into account of course but we must think carefully (as op is) about the consequences of our husbandry on an animal that evolved to live in herds and be free ranging and try our best to mitigate negative ones and reduce stressors.

Oh I agree with you completely about trying to emulate fake "wild horse" living conditions. That's why my horses all live in large herds where they have multiple horses to choose which friends they want and which ones they stay away from. They live in large fields and live out 24/7. Some of the man-made problems can occur when stabling is brought into the equation. Those who won't leave horses out in fields "because it's cold and the horse wants to come into his stable" or because the owners don't want the horses to trash their little fields. Or those who keep their horses in preened paddocks without a variety of grasses and where the horse really does not have enough space to do the natural wandering that their makeup desires or have the choice of horses to choose who they interact with. Horses who go round and round arenas can cause psychological problems for some horses. The list is endless.

The thing is, at the end of the day we can sit and say we are doing what we do for the horses but ultimately it comes down to what works for us, and horses can and do adapt to our choices. I do not understand the holier than thou people who sit and criticise others in their horsemanship skills when they themselves are guilty of instilling other such man made problems for their own horses. Glass houses and all. Everyone tries their best to keep their horses in a manner which works for them and the horse but sometimes peoples situations dictate slight deviation and I'm accepting of this. Others are not and I think they need to open their eyes to what's going on around them and stop being so judgemental of others.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Oh I agree with you completely about trying to emulate fake "wild horse" living conditions. That's why my horses all live in large herds where they have multiple horses to choose which friends they want and which ones they stay away from. They live in large fields and live out 24/7. Some of the man-made problems can occur when stabling is brought into the equation. Those who won't leave horses out in fields "because it's cold and the horse wants to come into his stable" or because the owners don't want the horses to trash their little fields. Or those who keep their horses in preened paddocks without a variety of grasses and where the horse really does not have enough space to do the natural wandering that their makeup desires or have the choice of horses to choose who they interact with. Horses who go round and round arenas can cause psychological problems for some horses. The list is endless.

The thing is, at the end of the day we can sit and say we are doing what we do for the horses but ultimately it comes down to what works for us, and horses can and do adapt to our choices. I do not understand the holier than thou people who sit and criticise others in their horsemanship skills when they themselves are guilty of instilling other such man made problems for their own horses. Glass houses and all. Everyone tries their best to keep their horses in a manner which works for them and the horse but sometimes peoples situations dictate slight deviation and I'm accepting of this. Others are not and I think they need to open their eyes to what's going on around them and stop being so judgemental of others.

You know I am actually in awe Very well said and put.

 

[coss]

Oh I agree with you completely about trying to emulate fake "wild horse" living conditions. That's why my horses all live in large herds where they have multiple horses to choose which friends they want and which ones they stay away from. They live in large fields and live out 24/7. Some of the man-made problems can occur when stabling is brought into the equation. Those who won't leave horses out in fields "because it's cold and the horse wants to come into his stable" or because the owners don't want the horses to trash their little fields. Or those who keep their horses in preened paddocks without a variety of grasses and where the horse really does not have enough space to do the natural wandering that their makeup desires or have the choice of horses to choose who they interact with. Horses who go round and round arenas can cause psychological problems for some horses. The list is endless.

The thing is, at the end of the day we can sit and say we are doing what we do for the horses but ultimately it comes down to what works for us, and horses can and do adapt to our choices. I do not understand the holier than thou people who sit and criticise others in their horsemanship skills when they themselves are guilty of instilling other such man made problems for their own horses. Glass houses and all. Everyone tries their best to keep their horses in a manner which works for them and the horse but sometimes peoples situations dictate slight deviation and I'm accepting of this. Others are not and I think they need to open their eyes to what's going on around them and stop being so judgemental of others.

Lovely post.

OP - i think you will know within a week whether your horse will settle on his own. The fact he's maintaining and eating pattern is good - that would be the main thing i'd worry about and watching for any other stressy signs that continue such as box walking. What was his stable like to muck out compared to usual? How were the droppings?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Unfortunately SF, I learnt while I was at a livery yard that not everyone who owns a horse does try their best for their horse.

There are people who really don't see that there is a problem leaving a medical condition untreated or even leaving a horse shut in a stable without food or water (other people did notice and turned her out) and not coming to see her for two weeks.

I am not saying that anyone on this thread would do either of those things, only that I have been shocked that I have met three people over the years who have done just that.

 

[coss]

that is awful Meowy Catmas