My ANNOYINGLY CALM non loader.

[carthorse]

I am a dually fan but you need to train your horse with it away from the lorry until he understands pressure and release really well.

 

[bex1984]

I have a cob x native pony, who is an expert on stubborn and I had some real problems with him loading a few years ago, he's just stand there, feet planted, generally being a pillock (much to the immense amusement of a yard full of jockeys when I took him to the gallops and he decided he didn't want to leave....)

Anyway, I discovered that he has to load himself. Generally won't follow me on, won't be led in, but will trot from the opposite end of the yard and put himself in the trailer. I walk (or run!) at his shoulder (armed with a whip, if he wants to do things his way he has to not mess about, messing gets a tickle on the backside), chuck leadrope over his neck and in he goes. He just has to think it's his idea

 

[Dry Rot]

I have a cob x native pony, who is an expert on stubborn and I had some real problems with him loading a few years ago, he's just stand there, feet planted, generally being a pillock (much to the immense amusement of a yard full of jockeys when I took him to the gallops and he decided he didn't want to leave....)

Anyway, I discovered that he has to load himself. Generally won't follow me on, won't be led in, but will trot from the opposite end of the yard and put himself in the trailer. I walk (or run!) at his shoulder (armed with a whip, if he wants to do things his way he has to not mess about, messing gets a tickle on the backside), chuck leadrope over his neck and in he goes. He just has to think it's his idea

Funny thing, I had one the exact opposite! She is opinionated but otherwise a real sweetie. I was trying to train her to self load in a small round pen. She tied to jump the gate rather than self load. So I tried leading her in to finish the lesson on a good note and, of course, she walked straight in! Duh! Don't they just love to show you up?

 

[everichred]

Mine went from travelling in a livestock trailer with no issues.

Came to me and gradually got worse, got a trainer out and we worked out pressure is no use as she plants against it, so the reward method was employed. Lunge reins & whip behind did no good either. Reward method worked for a while til she learnt step forward , get a reward, step back. This could go on for quite some time.

One day my son was playing the step forward / step back game, I got completely fed up with her taking the proverbial, took my coat off, walloped her on arse with it ( it was a puffa jacket so wouldn't hurt anything). And in she went.

Now, I just have to stand behind her & she's goes straight in.

With my friends non-loader he needs something physical either side of the ramp and behind him. At a horsemanship demo they had cages, we can't travel with those, so use the orange plastic netting on long electric posts which we can move easily behind him & that works well.

 

[Gerdy]

My young ginger wouldn't load, although she wasn't calm!! I watched this video of Richard Maxwell loading this subborn horse (And I'm a total sceptic) and put it into practice, one week later, with LOTs and LOTs of practiceshe would load fine. I take her everywhere on my own and she still loads well now.

http://www.horsehero.com/36636

I emailed the man himself after with positive feedback and he emailed me back at 11pm at night with some more tips.

Watch this video - totally agree, the man is brilliant, and i have never looked back with loading since using his wonderful approach

 

[Iron Tears]

HollyandIvy, that was the next option with mine to sit with my kindle in the back with him at the bottom & ignore him totally. He really hates being ignored, likes to know whats going on beaky git

 

[morrismob]

Where abouts are you, op ?

 

[ladyt25]

Taping him with a stick really won't work, he Will kick us no messing, & tried that as a yearling, tried most things including having him sat on my shoulders 4 of us lifting him etc. Also tried blasting him with a hose right up his arse!! we have said about stripping him & lifting him in with the handler!! We may yet get that desperate!!

He can't kick you because you wouldn't be behind him! The trick is, use just one person, NOT a load of people flapping about etc.

Stencilface has said what we did with my youngster but you have to do this on the ground first. You stand in front on the horse and, with a schooling whip tap his side (where you would use your leg) and increase the intensity until he steps forwards, then stop tapping and praise him. walk a few steps, halt and repeat. Alternate the 'tapping' on either side and ensure he doesn't get nervy of the whip my occasionally just stroking it down his side.

Then, once he 'understands' what you are asking, apply the same to loading. Make sure the ramp is not too steep (mine was finding it hard to get himself up the ramp and this was what was worrying him - once in he was happy as larry).

Lead him as you would a normal 'good loader' to the ramp (do not automatically think he will plant). If and when he stops then face him and apply the tapping to his side. He may go sideways (change the side you tap on if so), he may hop up. However, until he moves forwards do not give up tha tapping, intensify it. Even if he just moves one foot forward, the moment he does this, stop tapping and give lots of praise. Continue with the technique and with persistance he will go in.

What you mustn't do is let him turn round or have other peopleto 'help' by getting behind him, beside him etc etc. By all means, have someone about if needs be but not interfering!

I honestly would not have actually thought this would work but having seen it done, I would always do it this way. Remember you are NOT hitting him and must not hit him, it's just applying the pressure to ask for forward movement

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

If its an ifor williams we thread the lunge line through the door lock hitches at the side and it gives you a bit of leverage, worked for very stubborn TB, occasionally we used a lunge whip and tappd him on the hocks and rocked him to make him move. after about 6 months he saw the lunge line and just walked right in as he knew it wasnt getting him anywhere to rear, kick and plant

 

[Iron Tears]

Ladyt25, it doesn't matter where u are around him he will get you, when he tried to kick my head off he shoved me sideways with his shoulder then twisted away so he could kick at me. Bendy isn't in it. Showing him a stick if we want to load him he goes ballistic, even if its someone else walking past!!

 

[AmyMay]

Op, do what you suggested initially.

Feed, hay, water - all in the box.

 

[stencilface]

Ladyt25, it doesn't matter where u are around him he will get you, when he tried to kick my head off he shoved me sideways with his shoulder then twisted away so he could kick at me. Bendy isn't in it. Showing him a stick if we want to load him he goes ballistic, even if its someone else walking past!!

This is probably due to you losing your rag with him in the past. You need to do groundwork with a whip away from the lorry and desensitise him to it. Run it all over him making sure he is calm and ok with it. Never lose your rag with a whip, then expect the horse to react normally to it. Retrain him and teach him that the whip is an aid to move forwards and that's it. Never use it as a punishment.

 

[Iron Tears]

In any other situation from loading he will totally ignore the whip! In fact the will merrily chew the end! Quit berating me cause I lost my rag once!

 

[Iron Tears]

Well he loaded earlier, 20 mins of being semi ignored cold wind & a bit of feed in a feed scoop, he decided to join me. The way he came up the ramp reminded me of my dog Murphy, sometimes he just can't work out how to get upstairs, horse was same back feet sort of all over the place. Oh well job done see what he's like to go home on Mon or Tues.

 

[amandaco2]

Id just bore him on.keep irritating him...little tiny niggles on the halter, tapping him on the legs. Nothing painful, just annoying.
And set aside a few hours everyday til he learns you have infinate time and patience.
Feed on the lorry also good idea each day so he gets reward each time.

 

[Iron Tears]

So ignoring him to come home didnt work yesterday! 4 hours it took to load him, if 3 people didnt come over & park their lorry next to mine we'd still be there all day today.We tried 2 lunge lines, which did seem to be working he was thinking about going in until someone else came out with their horse to load, hence te lorry being parked next to mine then Oh Boy did we have a temper tantrum, he reared up & lashed out at the brick wall, debris everywhere. He really seems to have lost the ability to work out what to do with his hind quaters going up the ramp, travels beautifully,never a stamp, occasional squeek. Other half checked on him travelling home last night, merrily leaning on the partition munching his net! It is just the UP the ramp part he's struggling with!!

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

God- you really could be talking about our old horse! Our record was nearly 6 hours in the blistering heat until in the end I had to hack him home (thank goodness we were only about 6 miles away!) another time 4 hours and it was dark so YM had to come out with some sedalin and even then it took 3 of us to almost winch him on.

In the end, we had to get professional help, in the name of Garry Bosworth. He's Lincolnshire based so we had to pay him mileage etc so think it worked out about £150 but he spent hours with us and he went from not even going within 5 feet of the ramp to loaded, bars, doors up etc within 2 hours of him arriving at the yard. A lot of it WAS groundwork away from the trailer though and he spent about an hour doing that, oh and a Dually was essential too. But I cannot recommend him enough, he was kind, sympathetic and paitent and really got results.

Sometimes you just have to seek help.

 

[Dry Rot]

So ignoring him to come home didnt work yesterday! 4 hours it took to load him, if 3 people didnt come over & park their lorry next to mine we'd still be there all day today.We tried 2 lunge lines, which did seem to be working he was thinking about going in until someone else came out with their horse to load, hence te lorry being parked next to mine then Oh Boy did we have a temper tantrum, he reared up & lashed out at the brick wall, debris everywhere. He really seems to have lost the ability to work out what to do with his hind quaters going up the ramp, travels beautifully,never a stamp, occasional squeek. Other half checked on him travelling home last night, merrily leaning on the partition munching his net! It is just the UP the ramp part he's struggling with!!

Then that is the bit to work on. Walking over tarpaulins,plastic sheets, plywood, etc. Then up the ramp, off the ramp, up, off, across the ramp, and back again, and so on until he stops thinking about it and it bores the both of you. An inch a day is progress! Forget about going inside for the present. Thick plywood sheets are good. You can put the sheets on uneven ground and they'll rock alarmingly so the ramp will seem like a dawdle!

Think of it as escape behaviour rather than temper tantrums and the situation may be easier to understand. Every time there is a confrontation, his worst fears are brought to the surface once again and he reminds himself of what he thinks is dangerous to do.

 

[stencilface]

In any other situation from loading he will totally ignore the whip! In fact the will merrily chew the end! Quit berating me cause I lost my rag once!

So do more groundwork so he learns ignoring it is not an option and it is an aid to move forwards.

 

[Hedwards]

Can you try loading him backwards? just a thought, did a dissertation on it many years ago at uni, supposed to be good for horses who worry about banging their head on the roof... but may work for him!

 

[Goldenstar]

I have never failed with long riening in .
I don't like to do it but it does work you must have a helper on hand in case of muddles and of course the horse needs to understand being driven forward from behind and I would be mega cautious with one that was nervous of lines around the legs and things like that .

 

[Iron Tears]

Yep, tried backwards, this is a horse that has 4 forwards & 3 reverse gears, & has no intention of falling over when in reverse. Havent tried since we came home to load him, only because he did put his back out being a prat while he was away, I managed to stretch the worst of it out so he was comfortable, so he's having that looked at this Weds/Thurs when my mate is down. When we try again which will probably be Friday & if he just goes in it might be that he needs to have his temper tantrum once a year to be bloody minded.
When we first loaded him last year he was in my mates sand school with her lorry, a fence either side so he couldn't get down the sides, then he knocked them over had a hissy fit lunging with the dually on then decided to launch in, again with the back feet not quite knowing what they were supposed to do! After that he was happy as larry loading whenever we went out! Strange horse! Never mind he'll work it out.
Am waiting for panels for my Ifor trailer so I can use that for local stuff til he's really settled again 2 months & still waiting!

 

[leflynn]

Reading this with interest after the horse that normally loads itself onto a trailer/box refused yesterday.

Was happy to stand on the ramp ears pricked calm as you like but would the sod go any further, would he hell!!! Food didn't work, pressure release didn't work, lunge lines meant he just leaned his bum on them, chifney ignored as usual....

it took my OH with a parelli headcollar and me walking on in front of him, no idea why he didn't trust me to lead him on but would follow? Anyhow seemed to work and I am glad he has an understanding of parelli from a while ago! No advice just ramblings sorry

 

[MagicMelon]

I'm at my wits end I think my last option is to have his feed, water & haylage in the lorry/trailer & sit there with a good book until he gets bored! Anyone got any experience with a horse like this or other ideas??

This is probably what I'd do! Can you park the trailer in his field and open it up totally (no partition at first) and put his feed in it every single time, he'll soon be going in and out. Otherwise, I've never had success with a lunge line. Have you tried a hose? Just spray their butt with water in short sharp bursts and it often shocks them into going forward, worked with one of mine! At shows, I used to take a squeezy water bottle which had the same effect. If this doesn't work, I'd literally just spend hours trying, try sprinkling feed up the ramp and in etc. Give loads of treats and fuss once he's in every time. I always give mine a polo every time they load even though they are perfect loaders, it just keeps them sweet!

 

[winterwood]

God- you really could be talking about our old horse! Our record was nearly 6 hours in the blistering heat until in the end I had to hack him home (thank goodness we were only about 6 miles away!) another time 4 hours and it was dark so YM had to come out with some sedalin and even then it took 3 of us to almost winch him on.

In the end, we had to get professional help, in the name of Garry Bosworth. He's Lincolnshire based so we had to pay him mileage etc so think it worked out about £150 but he spent hours with us and he went from not even going within 5 feet of the ramp to loaded, bars, doors up etc within 2 hours of him arriving at the yard. A lot of it WAS groundwork away from the trailer though and he spent about an hour doing that, oh and a Dually was essential too. But I cannot recommend him enough, he was kind, sympathetic and paitent and really got results.

Sometimes you just have to seek help.

Thank You. He was a tough cookie

 

[Dottyfordylan]

Haven't read the whole thread so dont know if its been suggested but I've just been through this with my gelding who has only been on a lorry a few times, he had to go in for surgery so it was needs must. Tried absolutely everything on three occasions and nothing worked I had him sedated and we placed each foot, got him to the top of the ramp and he just wobbled then backed down again. Vet suggested to blindfold him, hadn't crossed my mind to be honest but it worked a treat with a little encouragement he walked straight in.

I'm hoping now he's done it he won't be so worried but I'll soon find out on Monday when I have to collect him from the vets

 

[Iron Tears]

Quick update, he's now loading, had a paddy on Sunday so was lunged then loaded, brought him down yesterday, had another hissy fit galloped round the school then loaded, now merrily going in trotting up the ramp on his own. Try him again today & tomorrow, if we have to have the lunging effort every time I'm quite happy. Had some serious work done in the back, we've redone the ramp as the ally sheet was rattling, the horse area has had new ply & has been painted white so it's not like the black hole of Calcutta any more, new steel & bit of floor (that he doesn't stand on), solid partition has new head part so it's no longer a solid piece of ply. One happy pony now, went home all smiley yesterday full of his own importance. Thank you all for your ideas, it was a feed & temper tantrum that worked. Mate cracked the lunge whip at him so he went for her head on, got the blood up woke up then went in!!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

If all else fails - get a shetland pony that you can just pick up and chuck in!

 

[JillA]

A neighbours home bred youngster was doing this, and I agree with Max that he is clever - avoids World War 3 by not over reacting.
Tempers were getting frayed, coats were being flapped behin him, lunge reins were deployed and being used as a winch. Nothing, zilch, clever lad thought if they are making so much fuss about it it must be scary so I'll just plant, they can't get angry with me for doing NOTHING!!
The answer? (After giving the usual handlers time out to calm their tempers down!!)Take off all the pressure, get him moving and reinforce each move towards the lorry. By the third reinforcer (release of pressure, and, yes, food rewards) he was on the ramp, next time he was straight in. He just needed to have a reason and to know it wasn't as scary as he had been led to believe. To this day he loads fisrt time every time.
I also remember many many years ago trying to load a 3 year old by constant pressure on two lead reins, with me and a local horseman. We spent a good half an hour at the job, then decided to take a break. The instant we sat on the top of the ramp the little horse just walked into the lorry between us. Pressure can be really counterproductive, especially when there is no well-timed release.

 

[ironhorse]

Ah so the making loading the easy option did work....was certainly the way forward with my stubborn, calm youngster who will now load anywhere and everywhere, and I can go out on my own with total confidence. If he looks as if he is in a 'teenage' mood while I'm getting him ready, and I'm sure you know what I mean, Iron Tears, just wearing the rope halter and long blue line that I lunge with to load can change his mind! I then swap to a normal headcollar and rope once's he's loaded.

Jill A, you mention positive reinforcement, doing the relatively easy thing of going into the lorry, (which now sounds like a nicer place to be) rather than having to work on the lunge is the ultimate in this!