my boys x-rays...

[Archie73]

In that case I would want another vet too sorry. It there is no way my logic (possibly lack of) can get my head around a horse being in too much pain to be made more comfortable. Pads and boots can do this. I would ask your vet to explain why they think this a the very least. It may just be there are unaware of the products on the market such as laminitic pads....... Really good luck hun.

 

[cptrayes]

i KNOW the trim didnt cause the problems.. but NOTHING was done to correct it....

Yes it was. The toe was taken out of contact with the floor, the rest of the toe flare was irrelevent to the mechanics of the foot, whoever rasped it off just made it look prettier and you are being very much fooled by that. And the heel was taken down as far as was safe for a trimmer to take it down at that stage by a trimmer who was still getting to know the horse. Further would have risked drawing blood and a trimmer would never get away with, legally, that whilst a farrier would.

Your trimmer did not have these xrays. Your farrier does. As Lucy says, the feet have now been very heavily rasped up to half way up the foot. You are being fooled into thinking your farrier has done a much better job because they look nicer, in your eyes. They don't look nicer to me, they look significantly weakened by the thinning of the hoof wall.

Your greivance against the trimmer is, in my opinion, unreasonable.

 

[Archie73]

Would also add that I agree 100% with Lucy Priory and CPT but I am not experienced enough to be able to advise as they actually are. As I said before I will be very interested to see how you get on from here x

 

[tango'smum]

ok i know i am now doing the right thing..... hes NOT lame....hes sound.... my vet and farrier are the best...i am not into fluffy barefootedness.... just wanted his shoes off for a while to see how he got on.. its not working for him at the mo.... thanks for all your imput.... but i am going with what the vet and farrier suggest....oh and guess what they even spoke about cutting the front of the walls out..

 

[Archie73]

Haha fluffy barefootedness. You are funny. Yes shoes are definitely the best way to go for you two IMO Please keep us informed though and I shall stay fluffy for now as its working for us!

 

[tango'smum]

lol.... i didnt mean it like that.... yes will keep you all imformed...

 

[Oberon]

oh and guess what they even spoke about cutting the front of the walls out..

It's called a resection.

 

[tango'smum]

yes but hes dicided against it.... i am really struggleing with what to do for the best :'( should i just pts?.... :'(

 

[Wagtail]

My horse had that many years ago after a foot abscess caused by a puncture wound to the coronary band.

 

[cptrayes]

yes but hes dicided against it.... i am really struggleing with what to do for the best :'( should i just pts?.... :'(

TM I feel really really sorry for you, but I think that this is actually an option that you may need to consider. Cushings is a dreadful disease to manage if you can't get them happy on their feet.

I hope you can get him right this time, but his history is against him

I am so glad that your vets decided against a dorsal wall resection. There are other vets that think it's a barbaric treatment for laminitics.

 

[tango'smum]

TM I feel really really sorry for you, but I think that this is actually an option that you may need to consider. Cushings is a dreadful disease to manage if you can't get them happy on their feet.

I hope you can get him right this time, but his history is against him

I am so glad that your vets decided against a dorsal wall resection. There are other vets that think it's a barbaric treatment for laminitics.

its really hard as he seems happy in himself... :'( the meds seem to be working , the vet is happy on the cushings side.. so why are his feet such a mess....

 

[Erin]

Feet can be made better. Go and have a look at the rockley blight for some examples.

 

[Archie73]

Diet and environment management in answer to your last question. But you have already said you don't want to do that fluffy stuff so back to shoes for as long as they hide the problem, after that you are probably looking at pts as by then they pain will be too much or pony will be on its pedal bones. Sorry but you did ask!!!!

 

[tango'smum]

Diet and environment management in answer to your last question. But you have already said you don't want to do that fluffy stuff so back to shoes for as long as they hide the problem, after that you are probably looking at pts as by then they pain will be too much or pony will be on its pedal bones. Sorry but you did ask!!!!

his diet is right has been for yrs.... i have always been carefull with him...everyone comments on how well i look after him.. as i said before. we are going to see how he goes without shoes for a while then think about shoes.... if its not working..

 

[Erin]

What are you feeding him?

 

[tango'smum]

What are you feeding him?

fast fibre.
soaked haylage.
vits min supplement.
mag ox.
no grass

 

[Erin]

Which vit/min supplement?

 

[tango'smum]

Which vit/min supplement?

equimns original....

 

[AngieandBen]

Nothing else to add from me except (((((hugs))))) I know how hard it is for you

 

[cptrayes]

Feet can be made better. Go and have a look at the rockley blight for some examples.

Diet and environment management in answer to your last question. But you have already said you don't want to do that fluffy stuff so back to shoes for as long as they hide the problem, after that you are probably looking at pts as by then they pain will be too much or pony will be on its pedal bones. Sorry but you did ask!!!!

Guys, it's not that simple with a Cushings horse.

Some of them have to be, quite literally, starved, if they are to be happy on their feet. It's not that easy just to say "diet and management", and the Rockley blog will not help, Rockley does not take horses whose lameness problems are due to metabolic challenge.

Archie73 your comments are unnecessarily harsh with a poster who is doing their best with a Cushings horse already on medication. Shoes might well be the only way to make this pony comfortable. So it will be because they numb the feet? So what, at least the pony will be able to eat.

 

[Archie73]

CPT if you read my posts here none have been harsh so while I agree with your opinions I don't agree with your opinion of my posts.
I feel for the op hugely as she cam see from my previos posts but think there is always more to be done. Especially if the horse is responding to the cushings meds. For example I don't know if the op has had her hay tested? Would a general purpose supplement be fine or would one have to be made up that may be more effective? I don't know myself, maybe you do? If she has nothing else to try or does not want to try anything else then my post simply states the eventual outcome which has already addressed in earlier posts.

OP if you think I have been harsh I was not trying to be at all. I don't like things sugar coated, you seem like you dot either!

 

[tango'smum]

CPT if you read my posts here none have been harsh so while I agree with your opinions I don't agree with your opinion of my posts.
I feel for the op hugely as she cam see from my previos posts but think there is always more to be done. Especially if the horse is responding to the cushings meds. For example I don't know if the op has had her hay tested? Would a general purpose supplement be fine or would one have to be made up that may be more effective? I don't know myself, maybe you do? If she has nothing else to try or does not want to try anything else then my post simply states the eventual outcome which has already addressed in earlier posts.

OP if you think I have been harsh I was not trying to be at all. I don't like things sugar coated, you seem like you dot either!

no i aggree with you... but i am lost as to what to do now... his soles have now started crummbleing these last couple of days, maybe its because hes been in for nearly 4 weeks.. the've dried out?...i know he will have to be pts eventually... i dont know if now is the right time or wait to see how he is in a month or so.. hes so uncomfy on his feet, i was wondering if shoes would help?...

 

[tango'smum]

CPT if you read my posts here none have been harsh so while I agree with your opinions I don't agree with your opinion of my posts.
I feel for the op hugely as she cam see from my previos posts but think there is always more to be done. Especially if the horse is responding to the cushings meds. For example I don't know if the op has had her hay tested? Would a general purpose supplement be fine or would one have to be made up that may be more effective? I don't know myself, maybe you do? If she has nothing else to try or does not want to try anything else then my post simply states the eventual outcome which has already addressed in earlier posts.

OP if you think I have been harsh I was not trying to be at all. I don't like things sugar coated, you seem like you dot either!

no i agree.. i am so lost as to what to do now....

 

[tango'smum]

Nothing else to add from me except (((((hugs))))) I know how hard it is for you

thankyou

 

[Kallibear]

I've dealt with a pony with far more serious rotation that yours but not with Cushings.

If you can control the Cushings really well then the growing out of his feet should be fairly straight forwards. If you cannot get his cushings under control then the best you can do is make him comfortable.

He is still sore? Doesn't matter what his feet LOOK like, as long as he's comfortable. Ignore his crumbling soles: his entire foot will look crap for ages so you need to go by how comfortable his is, and what the new growth at the top looks like.

If he is sore you need to make him comfortable. I would be using boots and pads because it gives you much better control on a day to day basis (putting shoes on makes you rely entirely on thre farrier who will only be there once a month at best). They allow for weekly trimming to keep the toe short (essential for rotated feet). They allow you to see how sore, or not, the horse is naturally (you can't take shoes off easily to see if the feet are still tender). They allow you to pad up and transfer most of the weight from the walls to the sole and frogs without bruising (you cannot do this effectively in shoes)

Fudge lived in his boots for months. He had thick pads in them and a thin frog wedge. His toes were trimmed off completely, and the quarters keep very short, so he stood almost entirely on his soles and frogs: it allowed the walls to grow down at the correct angle with no leverage at all from the toes. I trimmed the toes off (really quite drastically) every week and the heels needed done about once a fortnight.

If you cannot make him comforatble in boots and pads then shoes might help. They will may damage his feet more in the long run and certainly slow the healing significantly but being comfortable is far more important.

It sounds like the farrier and vet aren't giving you much support or options, even if it's just talking through your worries and ideas. That's where a good trimmer comes up trumps.

 

[tango'smum]

I've dealt with a pony with far more serious rotation that yours but not with Cushings.

If you can control the Cushings really well then the growing out of his feet should be fairly straight forwards. If you cannot get his cushings under control then the best you can do is make him comfortable.

He is still sore? Doesn't matter what his feet LOOK like, as long as he's comfortable. Ignore his crumbling soles: his entire foot will look crap for ages so you need to go by how comfortable his is, and what the new growth at the top looks like.

If he is sore you need to make him comfortable. I would be using boots and pads because it gives you much better control on a day to day basis (putting shoes on makes you rely entirely on thre farrier who will only be there once a month at best). They allow for weekly trimming to keep the toe short (essential for rotated feet). They allow you to see how sore, or not, the horse is naturally (you can't take shoes off easily to see if the feet are still tender). They allow you to pad up and transfer most of the weight from the walls to the sole and frogs without bruising (you cannot do this effectively in shoes)

Fudge lived in his boots for months. He had thick pads in them and a thin frog wedge. His toes were trimmed off completely, and the quarters keep very short, so he stood almost entirely on his soles and frogs: it allowed the walls to grow down at the correct angle with no leverage at all from the toes. I trimmed the toes off (really quite drastically) every week and the heels needed done about once a fortnight.

If you cannot make him comforatble in boots and pads then shoes might help. They will may damage his feet more in the long run and certainly slow the healing significantly but being comfortable is far more important.

It sounds like the farrier and vet aren't giving you much support or options, even if it's just talking through your worries and ideas. That's where a good trimmer comes up trumps.

thankyou.....

 

[LucyPriory]

when you say 'crumbling soles' do you mean they have gone very chalky? This is incredibly common and nothing to be frightened of - its just exfoliation.

I know when my first ever barefoot horse did this (entirely natural process) my farrier's response was to suggest shoes - but that was daft.

It is what is under the chalk that is important - if your horse is struggling to maintain decent soles because of the cushings then boots and pads are the best option.

And as other posters have said - you won't get anywhere until the Cushings is under control. Then you would be best off with boots and pads (if required). As previous poster said, the foot can be trimmed as regularly as required and you can check progress daily rather than just when the shoes come off.

By the way - in an earlier post you said 'small degree of separation'. You should be able to cover the white line with the narrow edge of a credit card.

 

[tango'smum]

when you say 'crumbling soles' do you mean they have gone very chalky? This is incredibly common and nothing to be frightened of - its just exfoliation.

I know when my first ever barefoot horse did this (entirely natural process) my farrier's response was to suggest shoes - but that was daft.

It is what is under the chalk that is important - if your horse is struggling to maintain decent soles because of the cushings then boots and pads are the best option.

And as other posters have said - you won't get anywhere until the Cushings is under control. Then you would be best off with boots and pads (if required). As previous poster said, the foot can be trimmed as regularly as required and you can check progress daily rather than just when the shoes come off.

By the way - in an earlier post you said 'small degree of separation'. You should be able to cover the white line with the narrow edge of a credit card.

yes i said seperation but noe small... there is a fair bit...in the toe area...the cushings is under control... yes there chalky....goes into like a hole around the point of the frog... i wont be putting shoes back on if i can help it....hes almost retired now. if i did get to ride him again it would only be once a week or so...
thanks everyone for your help and advise... i'm not feeling so down about it today..