my dually didnt work

T

traceyann

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 June 2009
Messages
645
Visit site
Im having handling problems with my rescue horse he been beaten in the past anyway he reared up on me and aimed for my head as my self pity previous post said so bought a dually it didnt work he just exploded on the end of it and got in sheer panic no talking apple or anything would calm him down i cant shout at him as panics smacking allready found out is a big no no you just cant reason with him im at a lose what to do we just cant get past bolting at the gate as anyone any ideas
 
Get an RA out to show you how to use the dually and how to deal with your horse, it took about 10 minutes for my pony to be sorted with the rearing initially, obviously there is more to it than that but 1 session will make a lot of difference to both you and the horse. It really is worth the £30 or so that it will cost you.
 
Agree with the others. You need to get an RA, or someone who is experienced in using one to train the horse to understand it's functionality for it to work. The RA I used spent about 20 minutes working him in it. He is very good with it now.
 
Did you watch the DVD on how to use it? Did you gradually introduce it along with starting stopping and backing upwards?

Have you had him checked to make sure he has no pain issues in his poll, or have you had his teeth checked to ensure there is no problem in his jaw?

I normally start my awkward horses off in a dually but on the normal headcollar ring. i stuff my pockets full of carrot sticks and i walk forward a few steps and stop. I then do the same, and the same, no pressure, no arguments, just walk and stand. I will reward with feed or a rub on the head. One they are walking and standing quietly, i introduce back. just a slight pressure on the head collar and a hand on the chest and the word back. Again, a reward, rub on the head, or a carrot when it is done correctly. So then everytime I lead I will incorporate that into my lead. A few steps forward and a stand and then a walk on. Then maybe a stand a and a back. All very clear verbal instructions, all very calm all very relaxed. Not treating with feed all the time, and not dabbling on at them.

In increase the distance forward and back. Once they are then doing this calmly I will then start to move to the nose ring on the dually and repeat the exercise again quietly, then ask for more. further back, walking forwards further, standing for longer. Any pulling and i ask them to go back. Any standing when i don;t want I ask them to go back. but I never use the dually agressively. My body language may be agressive standing big and wide and looking straight at him if he won;t get out of my space. And putting some force back on the headcollar. But in my opinion with an abused horse you cannot go straight to pressure and reward. You have to establish basics first and I am not opposed to some gentle bribery.

For horses that bolt off at the gate, I simply turn them to the gate for a handful of feed. i also treat again once the head collar is off so they don;t pull away from the headcollar, but hang around for a few seconds to just be sure there is nothing else. For one of my liveries I would even stand him still before the gate, let him sniff my hand with a really tasty treat in it and then open the gate and let him in. He knows the treat is there and is far more keen on that than bolting off and missing it. Timing is key. I insist that all horses are turned to the gate when they go in the fields, far far safer for all concerned - basically me as i turn out all the liveries horses plus my own every day.
 
its not a question of having the strength - on a purely strength basis you will never win against a horse. You need to use it with intelligence and consistancy. You need to reward what is good and ignore what is not. but you need to set yourself up to win, not fight a battle that you cannot win, horses are in to pressure animals. Pull hard and they pull harder. Push them and they barge through you. Small steps, are the only way to go.
 
I have done ground work he stand when i ask will trot when ask and goes out in the morning in normal headcollar where he is made to stand wait and once in the field is made to turn round while i close gate and 5min for pat then collar of its nighttime bring him in as soon as that gate is wide enough for him to get though he bolts its sheer panic to do so iv tried taken him back and though again several times but he becomes dangerous and then will start rearing i know its hard to believe he not naughty its seem sheer panic he has never be bashed with the gate not with me anyway when hes in that mind set there no reasoning with him
 
I used to have a sec d, who, once he got to field gate used to bolt off into the field, ripping the lead rein out of hands, there was no holding him, I did cure him of it, but I wont post it on here as wouldn't be seen as PC correct. But I only did it once, he never did it again.
 
Iv had various horses over the years racehorses a cob that was very badly behave allsort but this one has me beat he just doesnt seem to respond to being nice to him a smack, praising, he wont join up at all i feel bad because i have three other horses who need my time and i seem to be spending it all on him he has improved alot its just the gate issue thats a big problem and he hates bad weather i did rescue him from the meat man i think he was going for more than the fact he had sweetitch as hes fully papered andalusian and is sound and no other health issue and probably why he been so badly beaten
 
Andalusians don't respond well to being smacked. They just panic, as if you are trying to kill them. Raising your voice is usually enough. My stallion will plaster himself against the back of the stable wall if he even thinks that you may have raised a hand to him. Yours has obviously been frightened. They don't forget easily. I can't really see a Dually helping, as I think he will just become more frightened. They are very sensitive. My Hispano-Arabe mare used to rush through the gate as soon as you opened it. I always had her on a lunge line and just let her get on with it. It took a while, but she eventually learned that nobody was going to hurt her, and she's fine now. While I was on holiday somebody else chastised her for rushing and it just made her more terrified.
Rearing isn't good but by using a Dually I think you will only be provoking him more. If you think he is going to rear just so no, loudly and firmly. He will eventually associate the word with the action. It works with my foals!
If you do decide to get help, go to someone who is used to dealing with Andalusians. They really aren't like other horses!
Good Luck!
 
Just a thought, we dont use normal leadropes very often with young or difficult to handle horses, we use a lunge line. Gives you room to move out the way safely without losing the horse altogether.

Sounds as if your horse has had a bad experience, can you get someone to help you with the gate and get them to open it before you get there, lead him through at normal pace ont he lunge line and keep practising this until he gets used to it, obviously you'll need someone willing to help and stant quietly by the gate opening and closing it.

Will he follow another quiet horse through? Give him some confidence?

~I've never used a dually, my big mare was a nightmare to handle but not a rearer she is led in a bridle and lunge line, took a year or so to get her sorted, she's still led in her bridle but we dont need it as she respects it now but will occasionally 'try it on'.

Agree with the others though get some help i've paid my instructor for handling lessons before.Good luck whatever you try.
 
Correct use of the Dually, or any other type of pressure halter will not 'provoke' your horse, nor should it cause him to panic and fight you. I suspect, like many thousands of others, you may have tried to use it as a means of control, rather than as the training device it is designed to be.

You can't use anything to physically control a horse if he is afraid. His flight instinct takes over, and he will fight like the devil to be able to flee. If the handler attempts to restrict his ability to get away, the horse will use every bit of his strength to fight restraint. Rearing is the horse's natural reaction to being held against his will.

Your horse needs to be trained to yield to pressure. Horses naturally lean into pressure. It is a hard-wired survival instinct, and they must be taught how to give to pressure when they feel it. His whole life is pressure-based, with everything from leading in hand, responding to visual and voice commands, to moving off the leg and responding to rein/seat aids, involves pressure and his yielding to it.

I've written yards and yards of stuff on training a horse to yield to pressure. If you google my username and the words 'pressure', 'halters' 'yield', and 'Be-Nice', you should find some useful information. However, I am inclined to agree with those who advised you to seek professional help. Learning to use pressure halters is not rocket science, but it demands an understanding of timing and feel which is best experienced by demonstration rather than the written word.
 
I had leading lessons with a be nice when they first came out i presumed the dually worked the same this was when the be nice first came out and have used the be nice on my 16.2 three year old cob no problems but must say havent used a be nice or any other controller halter until now for years but i do understand the pressure release reward and did do some ground work with it before i used it for the field bolting but he just panicked as soon as it started working and exploded in all the years iv had horses i never seen a horse explode as quick and violent as he does and for no real go reason hes not even a spooky horse
 
Although he is a gelding, if he originally came from Spain he would have spent most of his life as a stallion. The Spanish don't geld their horses, and they are often only gelded if sold to this country. A lot are also imported as stallions and gelded by their new owners. They don't lose all of their stallion ways of thinking.
When excited, Andalusian stallions do have a tendancy to strike out with their front legs. It isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular.
In Spain, stallions are normally kept permanently stabled and never turned out. They panic when they come to this country and are turned out into fields. They only feel safe if their owners stay with them and it is a gradual process to get them used to going out.
They are often misunderstood and labelled problem horses and then inappropriately treated as a result, which of course only makes them worse, and confirms to them that there is something to be afraid of.

They are not used to rich grass or lots of feed. Sugar can have a particularly bad effect on their behaviour, even in haylage and grass.
The Spanish use a serrata when handling their horses. This is like a leather headcollar with a ring on the noseband. The noseband is serrated metal covered in leather. It sounds horrendous, and needs to be correctly fitted and used, but it is what the horses are used to and they respect it.
They are highly intelligent and will usually do anything for you, once you have their trust and respect.
They are nothing like either Thoroughbreds or cobs in their way of thinking. I've kept both!

I hope some of that may of helped you to understand your horse and why he may be behaving the way he is.
 
Dually's should come with a health warning - horrid things. And they will make a horse inclined to go up in the air, even more inclined to go up.

Sounds like you need some general professional help with your horse.

And what is your general management of him? Time out, time brought in - feeding etc....
 
traceyann said:
I have done ground work he stand when i ask will trot when ask and goes out in the morning in normal headcollar where he is made to stand wait and once in the field is made to turn round while i close gate and 5min for pat then collar of its nighttime bring him in as soon as that gate is wide enough for him to get though he bolts its sheer panic to do so iv tried taken him back and though again several times but he becomes dangerous and then will start rearing i know its hard to believe he not naughty its seem sheer panic he has never be bashed with the gate not with me anyway when hes in that mind set there no reasoning with him
Click to expand...

From what you say, it is only in the evening when bringing him in from the field that he displays this behaviour.

Is there a feed ready in the stable for him each night? If so I would be tempted to start feeding him in the field and bring him in afterwards. Also put any hay for the night into the stable once he is in.

There has been some good advice given re the Dually. I would second what has been said about having him checked out physically as far as poll and teeth are concerned.
 
quick answer to some question no i never have a feed bucket in stable waiting for him i have a cob i think he would bolt though the gate if i did with this horse you cant even rub your nose without him thinking your gonna hit him my cob was a rescue but he was aggresive towards people so i have dealt with rescue before but i cant seem to get though to this everything he does is bad for him he hates the headcollar getting tight but bolts with its his doing and he gets so much praise when hes good and life is good for him apple cuddles which he just beginning to like my arms are so sore and about three foot longer now i can hardly hold him and the running back in sheer panic is also a problem yesteday got to the stable he reared up bashed his head took me hour to get him back in he not hassled by the other horses who want to come in because he separate it just seem 1 step forward ten back even faster i wouldnt mind i only wanted to find him a good home and stop him going for meat looks like i have another horse nobody will want he only six he come from spain then went to french meat market where i bought him i know it sound stupid but we could have a language problem as well do you think
 
Yes im the stupid one i bought him myself should have know he was bad all the rest were breton or big horses but the owner of the horse i have spoken to him he told me hes very quiet has sweetitch was gelded when he picked him up from spain he owned him two month wonder why and decided to send him for meat because of his skin problem but he did spend money on him he chipped and jabs up to date and shod and had his teeth done which the french never do
 
traceyann said:
Yes im the stupid one. I bought him myself and should have know he was bad. All the rest were Breton or big horses but the owner of this horse (I have spoken to him) told me he's very quiet, has sweetitch was and was gelded when he picked him up from Spain. He owned him for two months (wonder why) and decided to send him for meat because of his skin problem. But he did spend money on him - he's chipped and jabs up to date and shod, and had his teeth done which the french never do
Click to expand...

Sorry - had to quote you back to add some punctuation to better understand what you were saying.

So essentially this was just a private sale?? What part of the country did you get him from??

I'd get yourself some proper help - as has been mentioned previously. Forget about join up, you need someone with good practical knowledge about dealing with large, sensative animals who can point you in the right direction.

Good luck.
 
I have yet to fail to resolve the kind of problems you are describing with a Be Nice & a stick carried in my right hand just to keep the horse out off me if it does start leaping around. This has worked on everything over the years from an 18h shire x who was pushing the boundaries to a 13.2 show pony who'd been allowed to get away with by a previous owner. The pony was the naughtier of two but far less intimidating !

I totally agree you need to get some professional help with this horse though, & I too am worried for your safety. Please don't ever try & lead this horse without having a correctly fastened hard hat on, & if possible a body protector as well.
 
The dually does work really well, but like everything it is horses for courses

My newest addition did not respond to nose pressure, however rearing loading and generally being obnoxious was solved very quickly with the be nice. Even leading off another horse, pulling solved with be nice. I didn't have to be nasty, but she didn't "get" the dually, but totally understood the Be Nice
 
Shilasdair said:
OP, I am worried for you - I think you are out of your depth/experience with this horse.
Is there no one you can send him to for some training?
S :D
Click to expand...

Ditto Shils.

I don't know your level of experience and abilities with this type of horse, as in his experiences and his responses, but I think you need some professional help.

Whereabouts in the country are you?
 
I think you need professional help to be honest. Some ground work training for your horse and also some leading lessons for yourself.

My current horse had been branded dangerous by his previous owner and also a well respected NH person due to his behaviour on the ground.

He really isn't dangerous, he's just very insecure due to previous abuse.

We lead him in a bridle and lunge line in situations where he is likely to become stressed or excited, this means no-one gets injured and he has respected for the person handling him.

We also used a schooling whip to keep him out of our space when barging was an issue (he's stopped this completely now).

Sometimes a be nice isn't enough although it does work with most horses.
 
Last edited:
tabithakat64 said:
Sometimes a be nice isn't enough although it does work with most horses.
Click to expand...

I used a be nice with great sucess on a 4 year old Hackney I had to sell once. He was rude and opinonated and the haulter realy helped.
But when I tried it on my mare Lucy it realy didn't help at all. Mind you she had lurnt her own streanth and you couldn't hold that mare in anything when she wanted to go :mad: .
I have to say I agree with those who have said get some profetional help. It is by no means admitting defeat but I think it will be best for you and the horse. It would be awful if something happened to you and you had to get rid of him wouldn't it :(.
The pony I have at the moment was "Rescued" by his previous owner. She wasn't expereanced with problem ponies and ended up making his problems 10x worse. She ment well but just couldn't cope. By the time he came to me he was horrendous to handle. It took awhile but he is now much better to handle and respects my space.
It can be done but it takes alot of time and work.
Good luck with your boy I hope it all works out for you in the end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top