My girl has laminitis again - update

Wagtail

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,815
Location
Lincs
Visit site
This damned frustrating disease! She has been turned out the last few days and looks fine at liberty, passage, bucking, rearing and galloping. But she just doesn't look right when I bring her in. Not lame, but sluggish and I know she must be footy again. So she is back on box rest. It seems this incredibly dry haylage that I have had tested and is only 3% combined sugars is no good for her. It must be that, because for the four days I put her back on the Marksway haylage, she got better. But as I have run out I have had to order some more. So, at £8.28 a bale that lasts her 2 days, it's pretty expensive. It also means that she will not be able to share the sand in the summer with the other lami prone horse, because his owner won't want to fork out for the Marksway :( and I can't afford it for two horses. Damn, all my best laid plans going to pot. Each horse will have to be penned separately when off the grass. :mad:
 
Last edited:
Thanks, Levi. I will take a look. I've a nasty feeling that she is becoming more and more sensitive all the time so things that used to work have very little effect now. But I haven't tried the founderguard. I think I need to cut her food right down again. She looks a perfect weight, but I think she needs to be leaner.
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks, Levi. I will take a look. I've a nasty feeling that she is becoming more and more sensitive all the time so things that used to work have very little effect now. But I haven't tried the founderguard. I think I need to cut her food right down again. She looks a perfect weight, but I think she needs to be leaner.
Click to expand...

you apply for a license which gives you enough founderguard for 7 months last the lami months april - sept. Its a preventative as it nutrients toxins too if they build it.

What about if you treat her like a liver disease horse??? lots of small feeds so not excess feed protein to build up and overflow into hind gut were they get into the blood and start lami off???

maybe her feeds split into say 7 am
11 am
3pm

7pm
10pm for example
 
I have some charcoal that I want to try (if I can ever get into the tub!). Her feeds are tiny, just enough to add her prascend, metformin, micronized linseed and pro hoof. She has one at 7.30 am, and the other at 9 pm.
 
Sorry to hear this Wagtail.

I used to have an EMS pony and she was always sore no matter what I did, so I feel your frustration :(

I dont know what to suggest as I never found an answer for my pony, but all the best xx
 
HaffiesRock said:
Sorry to hear this Wagtail.

I used to have an EMS pony and she was always sore no matter what I did, so I feel your frustration :(

I dont know what to suggest as I never found an answer for my pony, but all the best xx
Click to expand...

Thank you. She is such a happy soul. I know that she really enjoys life. I was hoping to get back riding her so that this would help get her into shape and help keep the disease at bay. If I can just get her 100% sound then other things will get easier for her. She still has her imprint shoes on which I worry will be masking some of her footiness. I'm determined to get her there, but if she comes to a point where I can't get her off box rest, then much as it would tear me apart, I will PTS. At the moment though, she's happy as larry. Obviously comfortable enough to do all kinds of acrobatics :rolleyes: but just not quite right. My farrier cannot see it, but I can. :(
 
i have my cushings ir pony on soaked haylage.. hes doing really well on it... vet was happy for me to do this... lots of people soak haylage...hes not had laminitis for a yr.. he also gets high fibre cubes and speedibeet..
 
tango'smum said:
i have my cushings ir pony on soaked haylage.. hes doing really well on it... vet was happy for me to do this... lots of people soak haylage...hes not had laminitis for a yr.. he also gets high fibre cubes and speedibeet..
Click to expand...

Yes, that is a good point. I have soaked haylage before and she's done okay on it. I will try soaking the big bale halage that I had tested and feed that alongside the Marksway (that I know she is absolutely fine with). It will cut my costs a little bit and might just work. Thank you.
 
Sorry to hear this! Lami with other problems combined is a real pain, its real trial and error to find out what works best for her.

Mine had lami caused by EMS, his bloods came back as 250 when i believe they are meant to be 25? He was lucky to survive the lami in the first place, with no rotation and a minimal amount of 'sinking'.

Unfortunatly for my boy, he couldnt live a 'normal horses' life again, he just couldnt tolerate the grass anymore even in a starvation paddock. Just half an hour more out in the field would make him footy, and he wouldnt go out with a muzzle as he just got himself into a state. His daily routine was exhusting, and he was a constant worry to me.
7am - he would get fed (lo-cal and hi-fi for his suppliments)
8am - walker for half an hour
8.30am - Turn out for 2 hours max
10.30am- In with a net of soaked hay and clean thick shavings bed
4pm - feed, rugs changed, small net to keep him going until i arrived
6pm - Groomed and ridden for a min of an hour (just hacking as he was getting on abit)
7-8pm - Turn out for another 30 mins whilst i sorted his bed and did night nets
8.30pm - Back in and bed with a full tricklenet of soaked hay to last the night

For him the exercise made a massive difference to him, seemed to keep him ticking over and also kept his weight down. I dont agree with vets advice to 'starve lamis' I think all that would have done was stress him out and make life awful for him and me. I was very careful to make sure his hay was soaked for long enough and that he had small holed haynets as he was a piglet! He was ridden a min of 6 days a week which is hard when you work full time and dont drive. I rode out no matter what the weather to make sure he got out and about. Also this may seem abit random but i used to feed him cinnamon powder. :)
 
Wagtail said:
Yes, that is a good point. I have soaked haylage before and she's done okay on it. I will try soaking the big bale halage that I had tested and feed that alongside the Marksway (that I know she is absolutely fine with). It will cut my costs a little bit and might just work. Thank you.
Click to expand...

he also goes out in a muzzle... i give him 6kg of soaked haylage... hes 12.3hh and 312kg..thanks to prascend...:) we didnt put him on metformin. as vet said it was a waist of money as they only absorbe 5% of it...
 
BlackVelvet said:
Sorry to hear this! Lami with other problems combined is a real pain, its real trial and error to find out what works best for her.

Mine had lami caused by EMS, his bloods came back as 250 when i believe they are meant to be 25? He was lucky to survive the lami in the first place, with no rotation and a minimal amount of 'sinking'.

Unfortunatly for my boy, he couldnt live a 'normal horses' life again, he just couldnt tolerate the grass anymore even in a starvation paddock. Just half an hour more out in the field would make him footy, and he wouldnt go out with a muzzle as he just got himself into a state. His daily routine was exhusting, and he was a constant worry to me.
7am - he would get fed (lo-cal and hi-fi for his suppliments)
8am - walker for half an hour
8.30am - Turn out for 2 hours max
10.30am- In with a net of soaked hay and clean thick shavings bed
4pm - feed, rugs changed, small net to keep him going until i arrived
6pm - Groomed and ridden for a min of an hour (just hacking as he was getting on abit)
7-8pm - Turn out for another 30 mins whilst i sorted his bed and did night nets
8.30pm - Back in and bed with a full tricklenet of soaked hay to last the night

For him the exercise made a massive difference to him, seemed to keep him ticking over and also kept his weight down. I dont agree with vets advice to 'starve lamis' I think all that would have done was stress him out and make life awful for him and me. I was very careful to make sure his hay was soaked for long enough and that he had small holed haynets as he was a piglet! He was ridden a min of 6 days a week which is hard when you work full time and dont drive. I rode out no matter what the weather to make sure he got out and about. Also this may seem abit random but i used to feed him cinnamon powder. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you. I have got some cinnamon but haven't fed it so far because she is so fussy and it smells so strong. But who knows? She might like it so will try it as I know it's supposed to be good for weight loss.

You were very dedicated to your boy. I just want to get her sound so I can start with the exercise, as I know it will help. It's so frustrating. :(
 
tango'smum said:
he also goes out in a muzzle... i give him 6kg of soaked haylage... hes 12.3hh and 312kg..thanks to prascend...:) we didnt put him on metformin. as vet said it was a waist of money as they only absorbe 5% of it...
Click to expand...

Yes, I've heard that too about the metformin. I am beginning to wonder if it was that now or just changing from the marksway haylage. I guess the next step is getting her back on the marksway, and getting her sound, then maybe reducing the metformin.
 
Wagtail said:
Yes, I've heard that too about the metformin. I am beginning to wonder if it was that now or just changing from the marksway haylage. I guess the next step is getting her back on the marksway, and getting her sound, then maybe reducing the metformin.
Click to expand...

yes sounds good, tango's ir levels where 394, so very high, vet said i can manage it through diet and exercise... wish your pony well, speedy recovery.. :)
 
Wagtail said:
Thank you. I have got some cinnamon but haven't fed it so far because she is so fussy and it smells so strong. But who knows? She might like it so will try it as I know it's supposed to be good for weight loss.

You were very dedicated to your boy. I just want to get her sound so I can start with the exercise, as I know it will help. It's so frustrating. :(
Click to expand...

Thank you, I sadly lost him in September (unrelated to the lami) :(

I know what you mean with her being sound enough to exercise. He was on box rest for 7 months so it was incredibly frustrating. You will get there in the end, and once you know what works for her you will be fine :)
 
Hi Wagtail, its such a difficult condition to manage but it sounds as though you are doing a great job for your girl. I've got a lami pony who is also ultra sensitive and can get an attack from something as simple as opening a different bale of hay (big bale fed soaked). I now keep him on a wood mulch area with soaked hay am and pm and Marksway horsehage at lunchtime. I had him tested for EMS/Cushings but both results came back negative, however after repeated bouts after no grazing, strict regime etc. the vet suggested I tried Metformin anyway. Luckily it has completely done the trick, he has 8 tablets (500mg) twice a day and for now I am keeping him on them continuously. I have also had him on Founderguard since his first attack but it wasn't until the Metformin was prescribed that we have had proper stability in his condition (16 months without an attack). The last pot of Founderguard came with a letter saying that it is not going to be available in the UK later this year....just thought I would let you know before you fork out loads of money...something to do with resistance in humans to the antibiotic included in Founderguard. I'm planning to discuss alternatives with my vet next time I see him but I think I will try and leave him on just the Metformin first and see how we get on.

I look for as late cut hay as I can, have him shod every 5 weeks and exercise him gently for 30 mins about 4 times a week. He is primarily a companion pony.

Just thought I would share in case any of this helps with your girl. I know how hard it is but just wanted to say that having gone through so much heartache and more money than I could admit to over the last few years, once you find the right formula and stick to it, it does seem to be possible to keep it under control, all the best with yours :)
 
WandaMare said:
Hi Wagtail, its such a difficult condition to manage but it sounds as though you are doing a great job for your girl. I've got a lami pony who is also ultra sensitive and can get an attack from something as simple as opening a different bale of hay (big bale fed soaked). I now keep him on a wood mulch area with soaked hay am and pm and Marksway horsehage at lunchtime. I had him tested for EMS/Cushings but both results came back negative, however after repeated bouts after no grazing, strict regime etc. the vet suggested I tried Metformin anyway. Luckily it has completely done the trick, he has 8 tablets (500mg) twice a day and for now I am keeping him on them continuously. I have also had him on Founderguard since his first attack but it wasn't until the Metformin was prescribed that we have had proper stability in his condition (16 months without an attack). The last pot of Founderguard came with a letter saying that it is not going to be available in the UK later this year....just thought I would let you know before you fork out loads of money...something to do with resistance in humans to the antibiotic included in Founderguard. I'm planning to discuss alternatives with my vet next time I see him but I think I will try and leave him on just the Metformin first and see how we get on.

I look for as late cut hay as I can, have him shod every 5 weeks and exercise him gently for 30 mins about 4 times a week. He is primarily a companion pony.

Just thought I would share in case any of this helps with your girl. I know how hard it is but just wanted to say that having gone through so much heartache and more money than I could admit to over the last few years, once you find the right formula and stick to it, it does seem to be possible to keep it under control, all the best with yours :)
Click to expand...

Thank you. Yes, that really does help. I am not half as stressed this time round as I was the last time as I know it has been caught early before it gets a chance to really take hold. She is teatering on the edge though and so it is a bit of a race against time to find what works for her. Soaked hay was no good for her the last time, but marksway haylage was a godsend. I may have to resign myself to the fact that I will have to shell out for that from now on. But I am going to try mixing it first and see if I can find the right formula. :)
 
By the way I get my Horsehage delivered by the pallet now, £6.40 a bag rather than £8 something. Still expensive I know but a bit more affordable that way...they do seem to love it! :)
 
Have you ever tried the NoMetSyn supplement from the lamintis clinic? A lady whose little welsh A was diagnosed with EMS around same time as my Cushings lady. He was going on and off sound on the metformin and wasn't coming sound enough to be ridden and exercised. So she very hesitantly tried the NoMetSyn with the metformin and then changed only to the NoMetSyn a month later. And it has *touch wood*kept him sound.
However I tried AgnusCactu thingy with my cushings lady and it didn't help at all.
Just a suggestion though
 
Wagtail re the charcoal; I have bought a tub too from Fine Fettle as my boy doesn't seem to be coping with the haylage (gut/foot problems). Haven't tried to open it yet!
I was trawling the net and found info saying charcoal not only absorbs toxins etc but will also remove certain drugs. It is not selective. I phoned the people I get my feeds and other gut stuff from ( Thunderbrook )and they said it would also remove the herbal stuff and supplements I am giving him. Damn.
They suggested limestone flour to counteract the acidity, a carbonate thing for the water or a late feed with the charcoal when it wont remove as much of the other stuff.
Just thought I would pass that on.
 
ATrueClassAct said:
Have you ever tried the NoMetSyn supplement from the lamintis clinic? A lady whose little welsh A was diagnosed with EMS around same time as my Cushings lady. He was going on and off sound on the metformin and wasn't coming sound enough to be ridden and exercised. So she very hesitantly tried the NoMetSyn with the metformin and then changed only to the NoMetSyn a month later. And it has *touch wood*kept him sound.
However I tried AgnusCactu thingy with my cushings lady and it didn't help at all.
Just a suggestion though
Click to expand...

Thank you! I will definitely look into that one. :)

melbiswas said:
Wagtail re the charcoal; I have bought a tub too from Fine Fettle as my boy doesn't seem to be coping with the haylage (gut/foot problems). Haven't tried to open it yet!
I was trawling the net and found info saying charcoal not only absorbs toxins etc but will also remove certain drugs. It is not selective. I phoned the people I get my feeds and other gut stuff from ( Thunderbrook )and they said it would also remove the herbal stuff and supplements I am giving him. Damn.
They suggested limestone flour to counteract the acidity, a carbonate thing for the water or a late feed with the charcoal when it wont remove as much of the other stuff.
Just thought I would pass that on.
Click to expand...

Ooh! Right then, I'd better not feed her it I don't think. It's costing a fortune in drugs and supplements so I don't want them removing. I did actually manage to open the tub today but have not fed any yet.

Update today is that she is sound! :confused: I was going to keep her in, but she marched out of her stable better than she has done for weeks, so she's gone out in the sand. :)

Such a mystery, as I haven't got my Marksway haylage yet, though I did cut the amount I was feeding her down a little bit. Fingers crossed, she stays sound.
 
Fingers crossed for you, Wagtail. I have an EMS pony and it's soooo frustrating. I've had someone try to hypothesize that footiness is mostly about the trim and I nearly bit my tongue clean off.

It's been a funny old winter and Henry has been a little footy with the solid ground. Normally we wouldn't need hoof boots at this time of year, but he was much more comfortable when I put them on this morning for our ride. You've probably considered taking shoes off anyway, but for me the main advantage is that trims can be as regular as necessary and I see the signs of footiness way quicker than I did with shoes. I also checked out the Easyboot RX (therapy boot) in my local tack shop the other day and it looks very comfortable for sore feet! Am thinking of buying a pair, just in case, as Henry has been more difficult than ever to manage, this year. I feel your frustration, I really do! :(
 
Fransurrey said:
Fingers crossed for you, Wagtail. I have an EMS pony and it's soooo frustrating. I've had someone try to hypothesize that footiness is mostly about the trim and I nearly bit my tongue clean off.

It's been a funny old winter and Henry has been a little footy with the solid ground. Normally we wouldn't need hoof boots at this time of year, but he was much more comfortable when I put them on this morning for our ride. You've probably considered taking shoes off anyway, but for me the main advantage is that trims can be as regular as necessary and I see the signs of footiness way quicker than I did with shoes. I also checked out the Easyboot RX (therapy boot) in my local tack shop the other day and it looks very comfortable for sore feet! Am thinking of buying a pair, just in case, as Henry has been more difficult than ever to manage, this year. I feel your frustration, I really do! :(
Click to expand...

I do now wish she was barefoot. These are the last pair of imprint shoes in any case, but at £150 a pair, I am loath to take them off. But now I am starting to think this may be an abscess and I really want to poultice but the shoe covers most of the sole of the foot so it seems pointless.

I brought her in just now. She went out sound again this morning, and now she is sore again. Three of her feet are ice cold. The one she is sore on is hot up near the coronary band. So possibly this is a grumbling abscess resulting from her last bout of laminitis? I wish I knew! :o
 
Can you not just feed hay, would be cheaper?

Hmm mine got a dodgy little abcess a few months after a lami bout. Was fine after a few days tubbing and poulticing.

Have you tried pressing the coronary band in the affected foot? That was the test my farrier did rather than foot heat, he said it was more reliable.

Rosehips seem to be working very well as preventative for mine atm. Doesn't vit c act as antioxidant too?

My farrier said imprint shoes were too expensive (I am pregnant therefore skint atm) so mine is currently wearing transparent pads with a frog-shaped print on the bottom, with light steel shoes on top. THe pads cost £15 each, a lot cheaper than imprints. I'll find out what they are called if you like.
 
noblesteed said:
Can you not just feed hay, would be cheaper?

Hmm mine got a dodgy little abcess a few months after a lami bout. Was fine after a few days tubbing and poulticing.

Have you tried pressing the coronary band in the affected foot? That was the test my farrier did rather than foot heat, he said it was more reliable.

Rosehips seem to be working very well as preventative for mine atm. Doesn't vit c act as antioxidant too?

My farrier said imprint shoes were too expensive (I am pregnant therefore skint atm) so mine is currently wearing transparent pads with a frog-shaped print on the bottom, with light steel shoes on top. THe pads cost £15 each, a lot cheaper than imprints. I'll find out what they are called if you like.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I am going to take her barefoot again after this pair of imprint shoes come off. I have some boots and pads for her. I only really got the imprints as the vet recommended them and the insurance paid. But now I wish she was barefoot as so much easier to deal with things such as abscesses. Rose hips are good, except she is the only horse on the yard that doesn't like them :rolleyes:

I may try tubbing and poulticing tomorrow even though most of the sole is covered up. So frustrating as I really do want to get riding her.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top