My girl has laminitis again - update

melbiswas said:
Wagtail re the charcoal; I have bought a tub too from Fine Fettle as my boy doesn't seem to be coping with the haylage (gut/foot problems). Haven't tried to open it yet!
I was trawling the net and found info saying charcoal not only absorbs toxins etc but will also remove certain drugs. It is not selective. I phoned the people I get my feeds and other gut stuff from ( Thunderbrook )and they said it would also remove the herbal stuff and supplements I am giving him. Damn.
They suggested limestone flour to counteract the acidity, a carbonate thing for the water or a late feed with the charcoal when it wont remove as much of the other stuff.
Just thought I would pass that on.
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Be very careful about info from the internet. Not all charcoal is equal. Read the FF site. Also be careful about info from feed companies whether large or small they all have a vested interest (as does FF). TB base mix made my own horse extremely ill (and dangerous); if I had followed their advice and continued feeding it I suspect one of us would have suffered quite badly if not both. So while TB is great for some its not great for all and I mention it to underline the importance of being very careful.

Re limestone flour - again be very careful, some areas are very high in calcium and any additional calcium sources can be very counter productive.
 
Hi Wagtail, how frustrating for you that the soreness keeps cropping up.

I know that when my mare had her last bout of very mild laminitis I found that movement made her worse initially, I'd find her sound and pulse free on a morning after being in and slightly footy with slight pulses on an evening after being on a track turnout system.

I found that restricting her movement paid off, although it took a few weeks, and I made a small turnout pen for her as she doesn't do box rest at all.

She was fine once she was evenually turned out properly (restricted grazing) but I think the additional movement too soon was upsetting the still sensitive laminae.

Just thought I'd share in case your mare is the same.
 
touchstone said:
Hi Wagtail, how frustrating for you that the soreness keeps cropping up.

I know that when my mare had her last bout of very mild laminitis I found that movement made her worse initially, I'd find her sound and pulse free on a morning after being in and slightly footy with slight pulses on an evening after being on a track turnout system.

I found that restricting her movement paid off, although it took a few weeks, and I made a small turnout pen for her as she doesn't do box rest at all.

She was fine once she was evenually turned out properly (restricted grazing) but I think the additional movement too soon was upsetting the still sensitive laminae.

Just thought I'd share in case your mare is the same.
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Thank you. Yes, I am going to keep her in for a few days and see what effect that has. The soreness is only in one foot. I am thinking now that it may be a 'grumbling' abscess caused by her previous lami attack. The farrier did say there was some bruising still in that foot from the last attack when he shod her three weeks ago. I am debating whether to get him to come and take the rimprint shoe off her so I can poultice, but these are her last pair and they are so costly I am loath to remove one. :o
 
she will be ok waggy with one for a while D had one taken off( heart bar) while we poulticed the other.


Waggy my worry is while the ( potential abscess) is not treated it could get very close to the pedal bone and infect it which happened too us twice. The first time we stopped it with batril the second time we could not because of her liver and that is y I lost her. Yes expensive moving shoe off but small price if there is abscess in there making a potential problem worse.
 
Leviathan said:
she will be ok waggy with one for a while D had one taken off( heart bar) while we poulticed the other.


Waggy my worry is while the ( potential abscess) is not treated it could get very close to the pedal bone and infect it which happened too us twice. The first time we stopped it with batril the second time we could not because of her liver and that is y I lost her. Yes expensive moving shoe off but small price if there is abscess in there making a potential problem worse.
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Thank you, Levi. I think I will call my farrier to get it removed tomorrow. The heat is really near the top of her hoof around the coronary band. It may be worth poulticing the whole hoof. I didn't realise that is what happened to your mare. Very worrying. :(
 
Shetland at yard had terrible laminitis last summer and he had the plastic shoes. She then put him in the Boa boots and has been fine since. My mare is the same. Would they be worth a try.
 
Laminitis is a horrible, horrible problem and I have a mare who has been a sufferer since she was about 6, now rising 20. I have learnt to never, ever feed haylage under any circumstances!!!! She is also a healthier animal living out 24/7 and I know most vets would not recommend this but mine has as she will have a bout of laminitis if stressed and being in is the one thing that stresses her more than anything else. It would appear that all laminitics have individual reasons for the bouts and the best thing I have found is to find the trigger and go from there. Good luck with yours and there is light at the end of the tunnel I promise you. My mare hasn't had a bout for a good few years now, it is a constant worry and I watch for the slightest sign of a problem and deal with it immediately. Having had her since birth and having her at home where by I can see her all the time I am now able to spot the slightest change in her, believe it not just by seeing the way she is standing.
 
Noodlebug said:
Shetland at yard had terrible laminitis last summer and he had the plastic shoes. She then put him in the Boa boots and has been fine since. My mare is the same. Would they be worth a try.
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Thank you. I do have some boots and pads that I was going to use once this last pair of imprints comes off. I think I may have to get them taken off early though as I am certain now that it is an abscess rather than a new bout of lami.

Crugeran Celt said:
Laminitis is a horrible, horrible problem and I have a mare who has been a sufferer since she was about 6, now rising 20. I have learnt to never, ever feed haylage under any circumstances!!!! She is also a healthier animal living out 24/7 and I know most vets would not recommend this but mine has as she will have a bout of laminitis if stressed and being in is the one thing that stresses her more than anything else. It would appear that all laminitics have individual reasons for the bouts and the best thing I have found is to find the trigger and go from there. Good luck with yours and there is light at the end of the tunnel I promise you. My mare hasn't had a bout for a good few years now, it is a constant worry and I watch for the slightest sign of a problem and deal with it immediately. Having had her since birth and having her at home where by I can see her all the time I am now able to spot the slightest change in her, believe it not just by seeing the way she is standing.
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That is encouraging news, and well done for keeping her lami free for so long. Yes, luckily she is at home with me and I can keep a close eye on her. Only one foot is warm this time and so I do think it is an abscess. I have also tapped all the feet and that one sounds hollow, the others do not, so something is definitely amiss with it. Whether it is a case of laminitis in just one foot or a hoof abscess. :(

Anyway, hopefully vet will advise when he comes tomorrow.
 
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Leviathan said:
waggy picture 5 in my slide shows the first signs of the abscess

if you want more i have a stage by stage picture of it http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/l.html
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Thank you. Gosh her foot really did look bad. :( I am starting to wonder if my girl has white line disease now too. I think I need to get the shoes off fast as any infection will be shut inside if I don't. So I think that I will ring the farrier first thing. The vet is coming at four. So If I can get her shoe off, the vet will have a better chance of seeing the extent of it. Really worried about her.
 
Wagtail said:
Thank you. Gosh her foot really did look bad. :( I am starting to wonder if my girl has white line disease now too. I think I need to get the shoes off fast as any infection will be shut inside if I don't. So I think that I will ring the farrier first thing. The vet is coming at four. So If I can get her shoe off, the vet will have a better chance of seeing the extent of it. Really worried about her.
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ask the vet if they can shave her foot, their clippers are better than ours ans you can see everything. Anti biotic might be a must too.

her foot was very distorted but we never got much must out prob 1/4 teaspoon the whole time.
 
Yes mine's post-lami abcess was really tiny, not much came out at all. But it definitely WAS an abcess as he got better pretty quick after just a teeny weeny bit of gunk came out.

I forgot to say, my farrier actually left my horse barefoot after the 2nd attack (very minor, caused by new yard haylage) and lent me hoofboots. He didn't shoe at all for a couple of months, then applied the pads. I was able to ride as normal with the hoof boots. He said he wanted the hooves to grow out as much as possible so they could start getting back to normal. So far no more attacks. Hope your mare gets better soon!
 
Not sure if its any help but when my mare has had an abscess she stands holding the bad hoof out sideways, a bit difficult to describe but very obvious when you see them doing it. My gelding had an abscess over the winter and he did exactly the same.
 
touchstone said:
It may be worth having a read of this blog Wagtail, http://www.unshod.co.uk/articles.php

I found the information on that site invaluable, and it gave a good insight into caring for a laminitic with all its ups and downs and the rollercoaster ride that it is.

Hope she's soon better. x
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Thank you very much for that. Very useful!

noblesteed said:
Yes mine's post-lami abcess was really tiny, not much came out at all. But it definitely WAS an abcess as he got better pretty quick after just a teeny weeny bit of gunk came out.

I forgot to say, my farrier actually left my horse barefoot after the 2nd attack (very minor, caused by new yard haylage) and lent me hoofboots. He didn't shoe at all for a couple of months, then applied the pads. I was able to ride as normal with the hoof boots. He said he wanted the hooves to grow out as much as possible so they could start getting back to normal. So far no more attacks. Hope your mare gets better soon!
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Thank you. I have some hoof boots for her, so will get the shoes removed. At least then we will know better what we are dealing with.

Crugeran Celt said:
Not sure if its any help but when my mare has had an abscess she stands holding the bad hoof out sideways, a bit difficult to describe but very obvious when you see them doing it. My gelding had an abscess over the winter and he did exactly the same.
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My girl has a really high pain threshold. She is not too lame at all and doesn't point the toe or put it out to the side. But she can't stand for long with you holding up the other foot, so I know it's really sore. There is a definite hot spot at the front of the hoof near the coronet and the whole of the front sounds hollow. So I'm sure there is and abscess or some other infection of the white line going on.
 
The vet thinks she has LGL in the one foot and wants me to cut her food down even further. He does not think it is an abscess. I am still puzzled by the hollow sound though. He said it can be when they have rotated away from the hoof wall leaving a gap but that she would be far more sore if it was that. So I had the expensive shoes cut off for nothing it seems. Ah well, it had to happen some time as I couldn't afford them at £150 a pair.

Vet is happy for her to have as much turnout as she wants in the sand or arena.
 
Could the hollow sound not be where the lamellar bonds have weakened and let a bit of seedy toe in? I find that once they are growing a healthy hoof that it will eventually grow out if that is the case.

I know that your vet says as much turnout as she wants, but I learned to listen to the horse rather than the experts, each horse is so individual and I know with mine turnout definitely affected the pulses and footyness when done too soon (I'm all for movement when they are okay though.) Mine had one foot that was affected too and I also suspected an abscess which didn't materialise.
 
touchstone said:
Could the hollow sound not be where the lamellar bonds have weakened and let a bit of seedy toe in? I find that once they are growing a healthy hoof that it will eventually grow out if that is the case.

I know that your vet says as much turnout as she wants, but I learned to listen to the horse rather than the experts, each horse is so individual and I know with mine turnout definitely affected the pulses and footyness when done too soon (I'm all for movement when they are okay though.) Mine had one foot that was affected too and I also suspected an abscess which didn't materialise.
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Thanks, it is so frustrating, isn't it?

He is the head vet at the practice and didn't seem concerned by the hollow sound. He was convinced it was lgl and that I had to get more weight off her. This will be difficult without leaving her for several hours at a time without hay. :( He also wanted her hard feed cutting down. She only gets a scoop of pure easy twice daily. Trouble is, she hates the taste of her pro hoof so reducing this will make her leave it all together. I will have to experiment and reduce it as much as I can and also reduce the pro hoof. Poor girl. Vet is going to come and check her again in three weeks.
 
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Just a quick update. She is now sound without shoes. Went out yesterday and came in sound. Looks okay out at the moment, but who knows with this awful disease. I am chuffed to bits though that she is so comfortable without her imprints as I much prefer her to be barefoot so there's no chance of the symptoms being masked by shoes. :)
 
amandap said:
Good news Wagtail. Fingers crossed.
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Just brought her in and we did have a couple of 'footy steps' but the rest of the walk was fine. I think she may have had more than her fair share of the marksway haylage. :rolleyes: I think I am just going to have to put her out without any tomorrow and put her fieldmates in the adjacent field. It's dry enough for them now.
 
I had a situation a year ago with my gelding where he was on and off footy for a few weeks, just in one foot but it gradually got worse, I thought he had an abscess and we tried poluticing etc but it wasn't really resolved. Then we found a bit of seedy toe although it wasn't that bad, this went on for some time and he still wasn't sound.

Eventually we x-rayed and found the seedy toe was spreading up and around his foot which we could not see, the separation of the hoof wall from the foot was causing his lameness. With the help of my brilliant farrier we got his foot grown back over 6 months and he is now fully recovered, the other thing I did was a soak with this stuff http://www.equinepodiatrysupplies.co.uk/Hoof-Treatments/CleanTrax this might help with any seedy toe or anything else that is lurking it is strong stuff.
 
amandap said:
I think I should keep quiet, I'm sure I put the mockers on her. lol
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Haha, yes, but so should I! I am just so pleased every time she looks right I post about it. But I think she's definitely going in the right direction now I think. :)

Liane said:
I had a situation a year ago with my gelding where he was on and off footy for a few weeks, just in one foot but it gradually got worse, I thought he had an abscess and we tried poluticing etc but it wasn't really resolved. Then we found a bit of seedy toe although it wasn't that bad, this went on for some time and he still wasn't sound.

Eventually we x-rayed and found the seedy toe was spreading up and around his foot which we could not see, the separation of the hoof wall from the foot was causing his lameness. With the help of my brilliant farrier we got his foot grown back over 6 months and he is now fully recovered, the other thing I did was a soak with this stuff http://www.equinepodiatrysupplies.co.uk/Hoof-Treatments/CleanTrax this might help with any seedy toe or anything else that is lurking it is strong stuff.
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Ah yes, good suggestion. I have heard of that stuff. Thank you.
 
touchstone said:
Great to hear she is on the right track again, fingers crossed it is onwards and upwards from here. :)
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Thank you. I am taking your advice though and keeping her in for a few days because she keeps galloping about and this makes her footy again. She's not going to like it, but we are so close to getting her right now I think. I am also giving her danilon to help with any inflammation. I wasn't giving it when she was going out as I wanted her to be careful, but obviously, she wasn't going to be careful, whatever I did. :rolleyes:
 
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