My horse has been diagnosed with navicular Help!!!

[Bluecat]

As tilte says my horse has been diagnosed with mild to moderate navicular. The vet saw it on the xrays as could see slight holes in the navicular bone. He is only slightly lame and is a 12 year old 16.2hh. What would the outcome be for this, is it progressive?The vet has said he can have injections to help and some raised bar shoes. Im just looking for someone with expereince of this to know what to do riding wise with him and also how it works with insurance and what sort of costs involved.I.e for these shoes and how often and injections etc.

 

[Tinypony]

I am sorry to hear this, you must be worried sick. You could have a read here:
http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/RockleyFarm/Research.html

 

[fleabitten]

My YO is a UKNCHP trimmer (puts tin hat on). Her mentor has had a lot of success with rehabbing navicular horses through taking them barefoot. Might be worth looking into.

 

[Pale Rider]

You can get a full recovery from this, look at the Rockley site.

12 is the usual age for this to show up.

Whatever you do though, avoid remedial shoeing, its no cure.

 

[Bluecat]

The vet has said to do remedial shoeing so the weights off his heel?

 

[3Beasties]

My horse (16 year old TB) was diagnosed with this about 4 weeks ago, he has had a cortisone injection in his worse affected hoof (the other will be injected at some point), he has been put on a high strength joint supplement (Corta Vet) and has been shod with heart bars shoes. The vet has seen him recently and is really pleased with his improvement. He is also getting Cider Vinegar which is suppose to help.

The shoes are more expensive but these should be covered by the insurance for the first year.

My vet is optimistic that my horse will be able to carry on as normal, schooling, jumping and hacking, the main thing I'll have to avoid is trotting on roads!

 

[Bluecat]

Hi 3beasties that was very helpful.Has the vet advised you what happens with the insurance after the first year?Was your horse a moderate case?Thanks

 

[Rachaelpink]

My friends horse is an ex SJ from Holland and has had navicular for a few years in both legs, one a bit worse than the other. It was diagnosed probably around 2 years ago. Special shoeing, as in raised heel platforms and gel pads has been the thing she thinks has most helped. This isn't cheap its about £130 every five weeks. She has been advised not to jump him but he is currently sound in ridden work, walk, trot, canter and hacks out for a couple of hours (walk only, not trotting). In the past he has had cortisone injections but he hasn't had any since the insurance ran out. He has that expensive supplement, can't think what it's called, it may be cortaflex. He is 16 yrs old.

Pale Rider- remidial shoeing isn't a cure but it has enabled my friend's horse to remain sound to ride.

 

[china]

will PM you.

 

[Tiffany]

Hi Bluecat, sorry to hear the news about your horse. My girl was also diagnosed with navicular a few weeks ago.

Nothing showed up on x-ray and she was less than 1/10th lame so not what I was expecting.

Anyway, vet has suggested we carry on as before keeping her moving and in regular exercise.

She's shod with heel wedges and straightbar shoes and is perfectly sound. No medication/injections recommended at the moment.

At least you now know what you are dealing with and can manage accordingly.

Insurance paid for 50% of MRI although I haven't claimed for shoes because even though they're a little more expensive, she's only shod on the front and about every 9-12 weeks. (her feet don't grow)

I did look at Rockley farm but it's too far away and vet said navicular cannot be reversed, just managed.

Stay positive and good luck.

 

[Oberon]

Please look at the Rockley Farm blog.

Especially the posts on Ginger - who is older than your horse and had many issues.
His first post....
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/02/oh-what-clever-boy-you-are-ginger.html

and a follow up one recently

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/07/busy-weekend-brilliant-weekend.html

You CAN make the navicular go away in a couple of months but it would require you to discuss barefoot with your vet and possibly go against his advice.

But it IS worth it.

And it's the much cheaper option than drugs and remedial shoeing (which BTW is only trying to emulate a bare hoof anyway).

This is a horse from my yard who had all the traditional treatments but didn't come sound until the shoes came off.

http://www.progressivehorse.co.uk/html/shoko.html

I know it sounds like I am a crazy cult member who is pushing barefoot - but I GENUINELY believe barefoot would help.

 

[Clava]

I did look at Rockley farm but it's too far away and vet said navicular cannot be reversed, just managed.

Really? they seem to have a very high success rate of sound horses or am I misunderstanding that?

 

[3Beasties]

Hi 3beasties that was very helpful.Has the vet advised you what happens with the insurance after the first year?Was your horse a moderate case?Thanks

My horse has it in both fronts but it's quite mild in one and I guess pretty moderate/bad in the other (enough to make him lame).

Unfortunately I am insured with a company that once I claim for something (in this case it will be joints - doing an arthritis claim too as he has it in his hocks) I won't be able to insure for it again. So I have 12 months where I can claim and then it will be a case of covering the costs myself. Hopefully by then it will just be the shoeing (am very lucky as my farrier only charges £20 a set extra anyway) and the joint supplement (Hopefully he will manage with a cheaper one as not sure I can afford the £400 a tub for the current one ). We will probably retreat everywhere with cortisone before the 12 months is up too.

I'm not sure long term how long he will stay in work, at the moment I am preparing myself for him possibly having to retire in a year or so as I'm not sure how long he'll be able to cope with work once we finish his treatment. At the age of 17/18 though it will be a well earned retirement and he will be with me until he can no longer be pain free and happy x

 

[Tinypony]

Tiffany, wouldn't you consider just speaking to Rockley Farm? Before you make any decisions?
Even as long as 10 years ago I had a friend who had a mare that was constantly lame, diagnosed with navicular. Never quite sound with all the remedial shoeing etc. She bravely took the horse barefoot with the help of a KC trimmer I think. All I can say is that I met her and her horse doing 12 days of clinic without a hint of lameness.

 

[3Beasties]

So many people have mentioned barefoot but my vet nor my farrier have said a word about it. What would be involved in making the transition? I would be amazed if my TB could cope with barefoot as he really struggles when he looses as shoe (not very often thankfully) but would definitley be interested in hearing more about it. Would going barefoot mean getting a new/different type of farrier?

Sorry to hijack op!

 

[cptrayes]

I did look at Rockley farm but it's too far away and vet said navicular cannot be reversed, just managed.

Ask your vet why the barefoot rehab I did last year was sound after 11 weeks and has been sound ever since. And he trots on the road as much as his owner wants him to, jumps and has just won Reserve Champion at his National Breed Show.

Your vet is wrong, but a lot of them are, he's in good company


YOur horse does not need to go to Rockley, a rehab can be done at home.

 

[cptrayes]

As tilte says my horse has been diagnosed with mild to moderate navicular. The vet saw it on the xrays as could see slight holes in the navicular bone. He is only slightly lame and is a 12 year old 16.2hh. What would the outcome be for this, is it progressive?The vet has said he can have injections to help and some raised bar shoes. Im just looking for someone with expereince of this to know what to do riding wise with him and also how it works with insurance and what sort of costs involved.I.e for these shoes and how often and injections etc.

I could scream if I read something like this one more time, I really could. Are vets not reading the research that's out there?

Your vet should know that there is almost no correlation between lameness and a mild change to the navicular bone. If 100 sound horses were xrayed, 50% or so of them would have similar changes. Research on live horses by MRI and dead horses by dissection have shown that lameness originating in the back half of the foot which is diagnosed as navicular syndrome is almost ALWAYS caused by soft tissue damage inside the foot. The overwhelming likelihood is that your horse actually has collateral ligament or deep digital flexor tendon injury and both those can be fixed relatively quickly by a barefoot rehab.

PLEASE check out Rockleyfarm.blogspot.com on wedges (you can search it) before you allow anyone to put raised bars on your horse, they can be totally counter-productive and at best only mask the problem.

 

[Tinypony]

So many people have mentioned barefoot but my vet nor my farrier have said a word about it. What would be involved in making the transition? I would be amazed if my TB could cope with barefoot as he really struggles when he looses as shoe (not very often thankfully) but would definitley be interested in hearing more about it. Would going barefoot mean getting a new/different type of farrier?

Sorry to hijack op!

There are some really good barefoot threads at the moment, if you look at the latest from Cptrayes it will give you a start. Barefoot isn't an easy option, or even a cheap option, but if you really want to try then there is nothing stopping you with the right support.

The friend's mare I mentioned in my post above, the one the vet and farrier said would never be fully sound because she had navicular... she was a TB.

 

[Oberon]

So many people have mentioned barefoot but my vet nor my farrier have said a word about it. What would be involved in making the transition? I would be amazed if my TB could cope with barefoot as he really struggles when he looses as shoe (not very often thankfully) but would definitley be interested in hearing more about it. Would going barefoot mean getting a new/different type of farrier?

Sorry to hijack op!

Problem with going barefoot is that you are often going against the vet's and farrier's advice.

So unless you find someone you can trust to support you through the transition, then you are often on your own (well - we are here).

That is why people often turn to it as a last resort, because by that time the vets and farriers are stumped

The vets and farriers are stuck in the role of recommending the traditional route. I think it's either because they have to, or they don't know enough about rehabing barefoot to mention it.

But the results with barefoot speak for themselves.

Traditional route - great costs and a horse will always have a ? mark over it.

Barefoot - horses come sound and stay sound. I think its 70% success rate? Someone else will know for sure.

TBs are not exempt from being successful at barefoot.

If I had a penny for every time I heard, "my horse CAN'T go barefoot." I'd be a millionaire

Often when a problem arises, it's a simple case of tweaking things.

 

[competitiondiva]

My mare went lame 15 months ago, she had x rays, her navicular bone (at 15 years of age) had no changes to it, she did not block out to the navicular area on nerve blocking either. She did block out to the coffin joint and was diagnosed as having collateral ligament damage in the area plus very mild arthritic changes. She has not had to have heart bars, pads or wedges, just kept the toe short with normal front shoes on, to aid roll over. With the original diagnosis she was box rested, but after 3 months showed no change. What has shown a difference is feeding her the loading dose of vetvits equiflex for 12 weeks, regular work, pain killers as and when and equine massage. She is now finally coming back into full work, and very rarely gets bute (infact last dose was probably 12-16 weeks ago!) vet is amazed at the difference and she continues to go from strength to strength.

I realise this is not navicular but maybe of some interest with what cptrays said about navicular often being confused for collateral ligament damage.

I would also add that if you go against vet advise you are likely to find your insurance company will make any claim void. I'm not dismissing the barefoot claims, just saying to speak to your vet about it, and try it with them on board if possible. My mare is currently barefoot behind and shod infront, and it's working brilliant for her.

 

[Oberon]

That's why it's better to discuss with your vet and educate them to a different type of treatment. They often agree if given the right information.

Rockley only takes horses with a referal - so vets must agree (eventually).

Insurance companies often have an allowance for alternative treatments.

But you are right, it can be tricky.

 

[Tiffany]

Really? they seem to have a very high success rate of sound horses or am I misunderstanding that?

Yes Clava they do with certain condistions. It's at least 5 hours away from me otherwise I may have given it more consideration.

She's sound with the wedges and heel supports and I trust my farrier implicitly. Also, whilst vet is not against barefoot he says navicular is not reversible although, can be stopped/slowed down with careful management. I don't think there's a right or wrong decision although my decision is heel wedges and shoes, turnout with a herd in a large field on an incline during the day, stabled most nights, a low sugar diet, maintaining her weight and regular gentle hacking on different terrains.

 

[Fauvea]

Shoes have never cured navicular, hence why those that prescribe shoes say that it is not reversible. Barefoot has cured navicular, hence why those who prescribe barefoot say it is just a syndrome and the horse can return to true soundness despite bone change.
You have the info, now it's your call.

 

[Tiffany]

Tiffany, wouldn't you consider just speaking to Rockley Farm? Before you make any decisions?
Even as long as 10 years ago I had a friend who had a mare that was constantly lame, diagnosed with navicular. Never quite sound with all the remedial shoeing etc. She bravely took the horse barefoot with the help of a KC trimmer I think. All I can say is that I met her and her horse doing 12 days of clinic without a hint of lameness.

I've been on Rockley's website and did consider it but rightly or wrongly I'm not prepared to have my girl 5 hours from home for 6-12 weeks. She's sound without medication and is only shod every 9-12 weeks with wedges and straightbar shoes.

Also, I don't believe any one thing is the answer for everything. I have a friend who's horse has now been barefoot for two years after a ligament injury and unfortunately he's never improved. He didn't go to Rockley although is managedin a similar style.

 

[Tiffany]

Shoes have never cured navicular, hence why those that prescribe shoes say that it is not reversible. Barefoot has cured navicular, hence why those who prescribe barefoot say it is just a syndrome and the horse can return to true soundness despite bone change.
You have the info, now it's your call.

Sorry we'll have to disagree. Navicular of the navicular bone only is not the same as navicular syndrome. Also, my vet is certainly not against barefoot either although it's a mangement style the same as remedial shoeing and neither management style can reverse the condition.

 

[maggiesmum]

Also, whilst vet is not against barefoot he says navicular is not reversible although, can be stopped/slowed down with careful management.

Based on the only management he has any knowledge of which is remedial shoeing!!
When my TB was diagnosed 4 years ago I knew that my options were remedial shoeing which i'd probably get 2 sound years out of him if I was lucky or try barefoot. We smile smugly nowadays at those who say TB's can't cope without shoes.

Navicular can be reversible! It doesn't matter how many vets we get on side, until the veterinary schools start teaching from more updated research we'll have the same old problem.

Sadly in the long run wedges will do infinitely more harm than good.

 

[Tiffany]

Ask your vet why the barefoot rehab I did last year was sound after 11 weeks and has been sound ever since. And he trots on the road as much as his owner wants him to, jumps and has just won Reserve Champion at his National Breed Show.

Your vet is wrong, but a lot of them are, he's in good company


YOur horse does not need to go to Rockley, a rehab can be done at home.

I think you've missed the point - my vet is not against barefoot. Like me, he believes it works for some horses and some conditions although, not all

Really pleased it's worked for you and barefoot was your choice. I've decided to go down a different management route and she was sound instantly when shod.

 

[Tiffany]

You CAN make the navicular go away in a couple of months but it would require you to discuss barefoot with your vet and possibly go against his advice.

Oberon, I'm not convinced you can make it go away? If there's a problem with the bone you can manage the condition but not reverse it. If it's the ligaments then yes they can repair. Similar to my dad who was diagnosed with bone cancer a few years ago. It's still there although, with medication it's thankfully being kept at bay and dad is pain free and well.

 

[Tiffany]

Based on the only management he has any knowledge of which is remedial shoeing!!
When my TB was diagnosed 4 years ago I knew that my options were remedial shoeing which i'd probably get 2 sound years out of him if I was lucky or try barefoot. We smile smugly nowadays at those who say TB's can't cope without shoes.

Navicular can be reversible! It doesn't matter how many vets we get on side, until the veterinary schools start teaching from more updated research we'll have the same old problem.

Sadly in the long run wedges will do infinitely more harm than good.

I don't know of any research that says you can reverse bone damage? If the ligaments/tendons over and around the navicular bone are damaged then yes they can repair and the horse will become sound. My horse doesn't have any ligament damage it's purely a bone problem. (albeit slight) He's also recommended barefoot for some horses and conditions but doesn't think it's the best route for my girl.

 

[Oberon]

I used to be very reserved about that statement in the past too. I believed once a navicular, always a navicular.

But I've been exposed to many horses that have come sound and stayed sound for me to believe that any more.
Perhaps they still officially are classed as having navicular...but if they are fully sound and doing ANYTHING they want (hacking, jumping etc) then surely the navicular has gone away?

My livery mate's horse tried everything and he was lame and getting worse. When the shoes came off - he was sound. He is competing dressage and jumping now. Been sound these last 2 years.

We can pick over words, but a sound horse is a sound horse at the end of the day.

Said horse was rehabbed at home too.

I'm glad your horse is sound. I hope she stays that way.