My horse is really agressive

[ajklin8806]

Hi so I got my horse about a year ago, hes young but he was pretty good for a 5yo. he had nice ground manners and I knew I was capable of working with it. A few months later he suddenly got very aggressive on the ground. Like he would pick people up by their hoodies, bite them, rear on them, kick them, etc. I didn’t know how to handle it as I didn’t wanna get hurt so I got a professional to help me. After a few lessons with my new trainer he was amazing. Better ground manners, easier to ride, he seemed happy. Then my trainer got hurt and we decided it was fine to work with him without my trainer now. After a few rides he got even more agressive then he was before. He was putting people in danger and that is the last thing I want. I have had other people come ride him for me but he is only good with them and as soon as I do something alone he gets agressive again. (Most of the people he is good for is men if that has something to do with it) I am not scared of him but I don’t want him hurting anyone and I don’t know what else we can do. I feel like he’s in pain but I’m a minor and my parents think it’s just behavioral so I can’t just have the vet out myself. If anyone has an idea of what to do, let me know, I miss being able to ride him

 

[SpotsandBays]

Tough situation to be in! But I think you’re right regarding pain.
have you got a trusted mentor/adult/instructor at the yard that could talk to your parents for you? (Assuming you’re on a shared yard or livery, the yard owner/manager might be a good person to have this conversation). Ideally it needs to be somebody who has seen and understands that your horse is not behaving like a happy horse.
I’m guessing that your parents aren’t horsey, so they might need abit more explaining in a way they they will understand. They might be more inclined to listen if it’s coming from another adult who has more knowledge of horses than they do. Either way i think it’s important that they fully understand that this is potentially A very dangerous situation for you and others. Hope you manage to get it sorted! In the meantime, please make sure you’re staying safe.

 

[stormox]

I think he may not respect you as much as he does other people. Do you think you are firm and consistant enough with him?

 

[Shilasdair]

If he's good with other people and not with you, that's because he doesn't respect you, and you don't train him for good behaviour.
I don't think it's pain in this instance, as he's fine with other people (you say).

You need to establish firm boundaries, and here are some tips;
1. Tie him up when handling him - short - so he doesn't have the opportunity to bite.
2. If he swings into you when tied, dig a hoofpick (or your finger or any pointy object) into his side until he moves away, then tell him he's a good boy.
3. If he kicks you, shout loudly, clap your hands, smack him (if safe to do so, and you're not still in the firing line). Make him think the end of his world is nigh.
4. Feed - when you go to feed him, tell him 'Back' and wait until he steps politely back. If he doesn't do it on the third ask, put the food down outside, and walk away. Repeat until he goes back nicely to allow you to put the bucket down.
5. If he goes to bite you, shout 'no' and slap him hard across the muzzle.
6. Carry a short whip when you lead him, and use it if need be (maybe also lead him in a bridle).
7. Teach him basic commands like 'over' and 'up' or 'head up', 'stand' or whatever. Make it a game -reward him if he gets it right*.
8. Any time he does anything good, no matter how small, praise him lavishly, tell him he's a good boy, reward him with a treat if you can.

You need to establish the boundaries - but you also need to make him want to earn praise and reward - he needs to see you as a good thing, and try to please you


* Point 7 just reminded me of a vet visit. My mare was standing diagonally with the vet at her right hand rear.
Vet said 'How do I get to her front right leg?'
I said 'Try saying 'over''.
'Can't you ask her?' says vet.
'Well, no as I'm on her left and she'll move towards you'.
Vet said it, and was astonished when my horse politely stepped over.

 

[ajklin8806]

Tough situation to be in! But I think you’re right regarding pain.
have you got a trusted mentor/adult/instructor at the yard that could talk to your parents for you? (Assuming you’re on a shared yard or livery, the yard owner/manager might be a good person to have this conversation). Ideally it needs to be somebody who has seen and understands that your horse is not behaving like a happy horse.
I’m guessing that your parents aren’t horsey, so they might need abit more explaining in a way they they will understand. They might be more inclined to listen if it’s coming from another adult who has more knowledge of horses than they do. Either way i think it’s important that they fully understand that this is potentially A very dangerous situation for you and others. Hope you manage to get it sorted! In the meantime, please make sure you’re staying safe.

Yes, I’ve tried talking to all my trainers as I work with multiple and they believe it’s behavioral. As much as I respect their opinions and they are likely to be right, I don’t think he’s 100% happy and something is wrong. I try to tell my parents and my trainers what I think but none of them take it into consideration. I should be moving yards soon, so hopefully they can try to help me but Im trying my best to stay safe while doing so, Thank you for your response!

 

[ajklin8806]

If he's good with other people and not with you, that's because he doesn't respect you, and you don't train him for good behaviour.
I don't think it's pain in this instance, as he's fine with other people (you say).

You need to establish firm boundaries, and here are some tips;
1. Tie him up when handling him - short - so he doesn't have the opportunity to bite.
2. If he swings into you when tied, dig a hoofpick (or your finger or any pointy object) into his side until he moves away, then tell him he's a good boy.
3. If he kicks you, shout loudly, clap your hands, smack him (if safe to do so, and you're not still in the firing line). Make him think the end of his world is nigh.
4. Feed - when you go to feed him, tell him 'Back' and wait until he steps politely back. If he doesn't do it on the third ask, put the food down outside, and walk away. Repeat until he goes back nicely to allow you to put the bucket down.
5. If he goes to bite you, shout 'no' and slap him hard across the muzzle.
6. Carry a short whip when you lead him, and use it if need be (maybe also lead him in a bridle).
7. Teach him basic commands like 'over' and 'up' or 'head up', 'stand' or whatever. Make it a game -reward him if he gets it right*.
8. Any time he does anything good, no matter how small, praise him lavishly, tell him he's a good boy, reward him with a treat if you can.

You need to establish the boundaries - but you also need to make him want to earn praise and reward - he needs to see you as a good thing, and try to please you


* Point 7 just reminded me of a vet visit. My mare was standing diagonally with the vet at her right hand rear.
Vet said 'How do I get to her front right leg?'
I said 'Try saying 'over''.
'Can't you ask her?' says vet.
'Well, no as I'm on her left and she'll move towards you'.
Vet said it, and was astonished when my horse politely stepped over.

Thank you for answering! I may have misworded it because he does act up with my trainers as well. And all of these are super great points but unfortunately I’ve tried many of these and he just gets even more agressive. He doesn’t respond to most whips or crops or anything used as an aid and he’s also extremely food agressive so I try not to give him too many treats as I don’t want to put myself in danger. Thank you though, I will try some of these

 

[ajklin8806]

I think he may not respect you as much as he does other people. Do you think you are firm and consistant enough with him?

I think that I’m as firm as my trainers are, the only thing is I’m a lot smaller in just the always in built and height so I’m more vulnerable. I get nervous occasionally but I tend to put it to the side with him, so I’m not really sure, but you could be right.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

I think this horse is not suitable for you (well, probably not for any teenager from the sounds of it).

If he goes nicely for a professional, then it sounds like he's not so likely to be in pain, and he would be suitable for an older/more experienced rider. I would sell him and try again. The last thing you want is for this behaviour to become ingrained.

Riding should be pure fun when you're young- get something completely safe that you can do everything and anything with.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

.

 

[stormox]

Would you try holding a whip or stick when you are with him so you could use it as an extension of your arm and height to practice moving him away? You will be safer then, as you can stand further from him..
I am not suggesting you hit him hard, but you may need to give him a tap with it until he understands.

 

[Shilasdair]

Thank you for answering! I may have misworded it because he does act up with my trainers as well. And all of these are super great points but unfortunately I’ve tried many of these and he just gets even more agressive. He doesn’t respond to most whips or crops or anything used as an aid and he’s also extremely food agressive so I try not to give him too many treats as I don’t want to put myself in danger. Thank you though, I will try some of these

Ok, I think you have over-horsed yourself.
You are too young and inexperienced to bring on a five year old, and as his behaviour has deteriorated since you have had him, you are actually 'untraining' him.
This is good news for trainers (I used to earn my living schooling naughty horses and their scared owners) but it's bad news for you.
Sell him, get something older and more estabilshed.

 

[Goldenstar]

Please sell him and buy a proper schoolmaster .

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I posted on the OP's other thread on this issue and I still think that there is something going on. A sudden change to that level of aggressiveness does point to an as yet unidentified pain issue.

 

[Mule]

Hmm, I re read your post and I wouldn't rule out pain either. I would get a vet to check him out.

 

[Goldenstar]

Aggressive horses are often in pain .

 

[ajklin8806]

Would you try holding a whip or stick when you are with him so you could use it as an extension of your arm and height to practice moving him away? You will be safer then, as you can stand further from him..
I am not suggesting you hit him hard, but you may need to give him a tap with it until he understands.

Yup, I use a dressage whip with him all the time.

 

[ajklin8806]

Please sell him and buy a proper schoolmaster .

I don’t want to sell him over something that can be fixed, but if the time comes to it and my trainers agree on it, then we will look into putting him for sale

 

[ajklin8806]

Ok, I think you have over-horsed yourself.
You are too young and inexperienced to bring on a five year old, and as his behaviour has deteriorated since you have had him, you are actually 'untraining' him.
This is good news for trainers (I used to earn my living schooling naughty horses and their scared owners) but it's bad news for you.
Sell him, get something older and more estabilshed.

I do agree I over horsed myself. My first trainer said she would be there to help me and then wasnt. Then I got my current trainer and he’s getting better, but I’m still unhappy. However I have been riding school masters forever and I want a challenge, just not too much of a challenge. I just feel horrible selling him and I know everyone around me would hate me for it. I love him and I know he’s a great horse, I just don’t think I’m the right person to train him. I would rather sell him to someone more advanced though, then to make him and myself unhappy.

 

[ajklin8806]

I think this horse is not suitable for you (well, probably not for any teenager from the sounds of it).

If he goes nicely for a professional, then it sounds like he's not so likely to be in pain, and he would be suitable for an older/more experienced rider. I would sell him and try again. The last thing you want is for this behaviour to become ingrained.

Riding should be pure fun when you're young- get something completely safe that you can do everything and anything with.

I do agree. My trainer said she would help me when ao bought him and she never did. I feel horrible selling him though as I know he can be great, but I want him to be happy and I would be happier with something older too. I just don’t know how to bring it across my trainers that I “want to sell him” as I don’t think they would even let me or want me to

 

[Shilasdair]

I do agree. My trainer said she would help me when ao bought him and she never did. I feel horrible selling him though as I know he can be great, but I want him to be happy and I would be happier with something older too. I just don’t know how to bring it across my trainers that I “want to sell him” as I don’t think they would even let me or want me to

If I were your trainer, I'd probably have a vested interest in your keeping him - so I could charge you for my 'training'.
But your interests, and the horse's happiness are not being served.
Try advertising him honestly - or put him on a sales livery. I know someone in the SW I'd trust to sell a horse and find the right home (I have no vested interest here) but it depends where you are located...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I just don’t know how to bring it across my trainers that I “want to sell him” as I don’t think they would even let me or want me to

Pardon? Do you really mean that your instructor could stop you selling your own property?

 

[smolmaus]

I just don’t know how to bring it across my trainers that I “want to sell him” as I don’t think they would even let me or want me to

That isn't their choice to make. If you are unhappy, the horse is unhappy... if they pushed back on you selling him for something more suitable I would be questioning their judgement.

It feels slightly uncharitable to agree with Shilasdair that your trainer might have an ulterior motive in you keeping him but well... it is very strange they want you to persevere when nothing seems to be getting better and they don't seem to be giving you any tools to help you manage him without their help.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I don’t want to sell him over something that can be fixed, but if the time comes to it and my trainers agree on it, then we will look into putting him for sale

By the time you know that the cause is something that can't be fixed, it will be too late to sell him. I wouldn't normally advocate selling a horse which 'might' be in pain but you really don't sound experienced enough to deal with this horse and if your RI is no longer available to help, all that will happen is that the horse's behaviour will deteriorate. Unfortunately horses do often need someone to put in the boundaries, especially when they are young and you just don't sound able to do that.

 

[claret09]

you sound like you have your head screwed on - which is great. you clearly recognise that you have taken on the wrong horse. i really hope that your family understand that you do need to carefully move your horse on to someone who has lots of time and patience and can work with your horse to hopefully overcome it's issues. you need to find something that is easier to deal with so you can have fun. you sound like you have a huge amount to offer the right horse. good luck

 

[Orangehorse]

Have you checked that he is not a rig?

Picking people up in his teeth certainly sounds like extreme behaviour. Aggression often comes from fear, and uncertainty or learned behaviour, a nasty experience that happened before in similar circumstances.

 

[ajklin8806]

Pardon? Do you really mean that your instructor could stop you selling your own property?

No she can’t, but

Have you checked that he is not a rig?

Picking people up in his teeth certainly sounds like extreme behaviour. Aggression often comes from fear, and uncertainty or learned behaviour, a nasty experience that happened before in similar circumstances.

Hes not, we got him tested

 

[ajklin8806]

m

you sound like you have your head screwed on - which is great. you clearly recognise that you have taken on the wrong horse. i really hope that your family understand that you do need to carefully move your horse on to someone who has lots of time and patience and can work with your horse to hopefully overcome it's issues. you need to find something that is easier to deal with so you can have fun. you sound like you have a huge amount to offer the right horse. good luck

Thank you so much <3

 

[vanrim]

Please don’t rule out that your horse is in pain. Firm handlers and riders can get a horse to behave - horse just puts up with the pain as he knows he will be reprimanded if he misbehaves - I have large sports horses who would not behave like yours ie aggressive and dangerous, if they were handled by a young person. You need to get someone on your side as you feel something is wrong. I think you are right and need a vet. Some horses can behave aggressively if they have stomach ulcers which will need vet treatment.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Please don’t rule out that your horse is in pain. Firm handlers and riders can get a horse to behave - horse just puts up with the pain as he knows he will be reprimanded if he misbehaves - I have large sports horses who would not behave like yours ie aggressive and dangerous, if they were handled by a young person. You need to get someone on your side as you feel something is wrong. I think you are right and need a vet. Some horses can behave aggressively if they have stomach ulcers which will need vet treatment.

The other thread on this.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...agressive-and-i-don’t-know-what-to-do.807314/

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

OP I think you are a minor? Sorry if I have got this wrong. If you are, I assume you are dependent on your parents listening to you, rather than the trainers who are obviously earning a regular sum because of the issues you are having with your horse.

I am not categorically saying they (trainers) are spinning this out to retain a nice regular little bit of income, but it is far from unheard of, I can assure you. Not all trainers are honest and have the clients best interests at heart.

Could you show this thread to your parents and see if reading independent opinion on the whole saga might make them re think their stance on insisting you keep and persevere with this horse. I think both for you, and the horse, it needs to be acknowledged that through no fault of your own, this horse is not the right one for you. And you are not the right owner for the horse.

Good luck with it all, I hope you can make them see sense and allow you to buy a nice well schooled all rounder then you can start to enjoy your riding and have some fun.