My horse is 'seriously underweight'

Moomin1 said:
Apologise - I realised after that I was meant to quote the person who you quoted - they said that he is very lean.
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Yes me. I also said that he was NOT thin just v.lean IMO, regardless almost all horse owners have different opinions on what the ideal horse's weight should be and it obviously also depends on the type. I'm not slating the OP at all, I think he's lovely just a bit too lean for my personal preference that's all. Others may disagree and they are entitled to.
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
Yes and as i have said he is getting hard feed and is getting hay (enough imo) but i need to be able to monitor his feed and adjust accordinly to allow him be be able to work and build up muscle whether that means increasing hay or hard feed
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If your horse has sufficient energy to do the job you are asking of him, then it is not hard feed you need to increase - it's the forage.
 
Holly Hocks said:
If your horse has sufficient energy to do the job you are asking of him, then it is not hard feed you need to increase - it's the forage.
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But at this current time i dont feel his forage needs increased, obviously i will be closely monitioring his condition when his extra forage(which he shouldnt be getting) is cut out and if he needs to be he will be giving extra by me
 
Holly Hocks said:
If your horse has sufficient energy to do the job you are asking of him, then it is not hard feed you need to increase - it's the forage.
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Agree with this. Is there a reason other than his weight why you cannot feed him haylage?

Hay or haylage, that is what should provide the most of his energy and condition.
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
But at this current time i dont feel his forage needs increased, obviously i will be closely monitioring his condition when his extra forage(which he shouldnt be getting) is cut out and if he needs to be he will be giving extra by me
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I asked you this before, but you ignored or missed it. If he is at an ideal weight now (some feel he is too thin), doesn't logic tell you that by cutting out some of what he has been eating, he will lose condition? :confused:
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
But at this current time i dont feel his forage needs increased, obviously i will be closely monitioring his condition when his extra forage(which he shouldnt be getting) is cut out and if he needs to be he will be giving extra by me
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But without some increase in forage or access to more grass how is he going to build up more muscle, what he gets at the moment is sufficient for him to stay as he is, it is obviously not enough for him to improve in any way.

I think he is lean, lacking in topline and generally needing to muscle up , in order for him to do that ad lib hay or grass is required.
 
Wagtail said:
I asked you this before, but you ignored or missed it. If he is at an ideal weight now (some feel he is too thin), doesn't logic tell you that by cutting out some of what he has been eating, he will lose condition? :confused:
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sorry i must have missed it! The thing is though i dont know how much she has been feeding him it could be a small handful or it could have been big bundles, so when she stops which she should have now i will monitor him and if he does lose more condition then i will increase his hay.
 
OFG said:
I wouldn't do this either. At the end of the day the woman who has been caught giving hay / hayledge to this horse is out of order and has no rights to be doing that. :mad:

No way would I be leaving a haynet out for this woman to be able to continue to give extra forage.

Most horses will continue to eat what is given to them so just because his haynet is empty doesn't mean it should be given more. If I used that philosphy my lot would be hippos :rolleyes:
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^^^This^^^

My horses would also be hippo's, they are all on regulated grazing to keep them healthy, if I let them loose on hay as well, I'd probably have big, fat, dead horses....
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
But at this current time i dont feel his forage needs increased, obviously i will be closely monitioring his condition when his extra forage(which he shouldnt be getting) is cut out and if he needs to be he will be giving extra by me
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Ok to put it as easy to understand as possible.
Although most posters have said that they don't agree that the other livery was right to give your horse extra forage, they have also said that your lovely horse is a little on the lean side and could do with a little more coverage - nobody is saying they want to see him obese, but needs more condition.
I don't see what you find so difficult to understand. Why do you not "feel his forage needs increased"? Your horse is trying to tell you, by his condition, that his forage does need to be increased. Is forage included in your livery or do you have to buy it in yourself?
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
sorry i must have missed it! The thing is though i dont know how much she has been feeding him it could be a small handful or it could have been big bundles, so when she stops which she should have now i will monitor him and if he does lose more condition then i will increase his hay.
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Exactly. Nobody has the right to feed other peoples horses without consent. It is downright rude, and sometimes proves very dangerous too (I have come across horses with colic/lami etc etc because some idiot has been feeding the 'poor neglected horse' goodness knows what without the owner knowing. If this person had genuine concerns then she should have approached YO or OP and discussed it. If still concerned then other avenues should be used rather than being underhand about it.

The only way OP can deal with her horse's weight/muscle tone is for this nosey piece of work to butt out and stop feeding him. Something tells me I don't think OP is going to let him waste away.
 
For me personally - too lean. But that is based on several assumptions about his workload. If you were to say that he is worked to a level equivilent to a racehorse then I would put hands up and say fair do's, he's fit and therefore 'perfect' (in my eyes). However, since the majority of peoples non-professional horses are not worked to this level and his muscle structure suggests this isn't the case, this is my reasoning that I feel he is on the wrong side of lean.

I personally would actually cut out any hard feed and look to go onto a true fibre based diet, using straw as a bulking agent as well as hay and use oil and possibly a mix for when his workload truly justifies it. It not only is cheaper, but far easier and IME quicker to adjust/get results.

However reading the replies, there are several mentions about the time of year. I too believe that a horse should be lean after the winter, but we are pretty much in the middle of June which in a normal year with correct weather and seasons (ha ha) the grass would be flushing and horses would be going into their store everything like it'll disappear tomorrow mode - and ultimately well covered!

How old is he (sorry if already mentioned, but I couldn't see it)?

And yes, the other livery owner shouldn't be feeding him without your consent.
 
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be positive said:
But without some increase in forage or access to more grass how is he going to build up more muscle, what he gets at the moment is sufficient for him to stay as he is, it is obviously not enough for him to improve in any way.

I think he is lean, lacking in topline and generally needing to muscle up , in order for him to do that ad lib hay or grass is required.
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There is still loads of grass in his field and it is still coming through he is out on that for 12 hours a day, brought in and ridden ect takes aprox 2hours given a hard feed and his hay, ive heard what others have to say about him standing for a length of time without food so i will start doubling up his nets! He has been tried on ad-lib hay and just got fat so he needs to be restricted! I still aint convinced on what a few are saying about having to increase what he's getting fed to allow his muscle to build up as we have had him since a 4 and he has always been fed the same and managed fine to build up muscle!
Maybe i should mention that at the start of the year he has 2 full months off on box rest so lost a lot of muscle in that time so its taking time to get that back angain as well as build on other areas
 
baker190 said:
Did fellow livery ask OP if she could feed her horse? no. This to me says she clearly thinks said horse is underweight (she told her mother this much!) and clearly also was concerned about general lack of hay.

The point is that you should not feed someone else's horse without permission, as I have just pointed out there could be reasons as to why horse gets so little as there is with my horse. If someone was feeding my horse behind my back and she gained weight this would more than likely cause lameness issues. If you do not know the ins and outs and have not had permission then said horse should not be fed by others!
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OK well what would you do if a seriously underweight pony, which had been left in a bare field all summer, for reasons probably of economy, came back to its original stable, was turned out every weekday at 6.00 am with no rug [autumn, no fat] and was still seriously underweight after eight weeks, owner and his daughter was told by numerous people.
Every weekend morning it stood in it stable with no food till the girl got up to see it, about eleven am.
Every day it had no water [I was told by this person "well, it keeps drinking its water"] The previous owner had this beautiful pony in perfect condition but said to them "don't feed it oats" so they gave it one handful of the cheapest molassed chaff, and nothing else.
Bearing in mind the owner had told me "we expect you experienced people to advise us if we are going wrong"!!!
After having spoken to the girl and being ignored, I started giving it food, I was found out, so I made noises about the RSPCA, and hey presto a vet came out to it, was it the first time he had rasped teeth on a horse with a full rug and neck cover, a bit suspicious maybe?
Even the obnoxious child must have felt it was not getting enough, as she gave it a slice of brown bread out of her lunch box every day!!!!
The YO intervened, and asked me to come and show me the pony, it was pretty obvious, the ribs were countable , no flesh on quarters and a dry stary coat, also depressed.
I could have been more careful not to have been caught feeding it, but I don't like to see horses starved.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Ok to put it as easy to understand as possible.
Although most posters have said that they don't agree that the other livery was right to give your horse extra forage, they have also said that your lovely horse is a little on the lean side and could do with a little more coverage - nobody is saying they want to see him obese, but needs more condition.
I don't see what you find so difficult to understand. Why do you not "feel his forage needs increased"? Your horse is trying to tell you, by his condition, that his forage does need to be increased. Is forage included in your livery or do you have to buy it in yourself?
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i understand but for me to know how much i need to increase it i need to monitor his condition once the extra which he shouldnt be getting is stopped!
I do know what yous are saying yes and his forage may need to be upped to keep his current condition at which i am happy with
 
IME what is considered "normal" weight for a horse differs greatly from one person to the next. To me, he looks like he needs some muscling which will come with time, and once he starts to muscle up his shape will change and he won't look as lean as he does. :)
 
OP - the best advice I can give you is to ask your vet. On here, you will never get a unanimous answer, ask someone who has the qualification to give you the answers you need. You can then tell the interfering busy-body to shove it. I'd also be onto the YO who needs to be warning off the person who is feeding your horse...
 
Nugget La Poneh said:
For me personally - too lean. But that is based on several assumptions about his workload. If you were to say that he is worked to a level equivilent to a racehorse then I would put hands up and say fair do's, he's fit and therefore 'perfect' (in my eyes). However, since the majority of peoples non-professional horses are not worked to this level and his muscle structure suggests this isn't the case, this is my reasoning that I feel he is on the wrong side of lean.

I personally would actually cut out any hard feed and look to go onto a true fibre based diet, using straw as a bulking agent as well as hay and use oil and possibly a mix for when his workload truly justifies it. It not only is cheaper, but far easier and IME quicker to adjust/get results.

However reading the replies, there are several mentions about the time of year. I too believe that a horse should be lean after the winter, but we are pretty much in the middle of June which in a normal year with correct weather and seasons (ha ha) the grass would be flushing and horses would be going into their store everything like it'll disappear tomorrow mode - and ultimately well covered!

How old is he (sorry if already mentioned, but I couldn't see it)?

And yes, the other livery owner shouldn't be feeding him without your consent.
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His workload - worked 6 days a week, usually consists of schooling 3 days a week for 30min-1hr, jumped once a week, hacked or lunged once a week, and usually a show one day
He is 6
 
I still aint convinced on what a few are saying about having to increase what he's getting fed to allow his muscle to build up as we have had him since a 4 and he has always been fed the same and managed fine to build up muscle! [/QUOTE said:
oh well, you obviously know better than everyone else.
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The horse is not a baby. Using that as an excuse for not having top line, is just that, an excuse.

If you are working him correctly, so he should develop top line, then maybe you do need to look at his forage intake.
 
ContinentalRescue said:
IME what is considered "normal" weight for a horse differs greatly from one person to the next. To me, he looks like he needs some muscling which will come with time, and once he starts to muscle up his shape will change and he won't look as lean as he does. :)
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It won't help him to muscle up if he is stabled 14 hours a day, this is why ideally he should be out 24/7 if he is young and still growing.
I you think he is getting enough work and food to have him in good condition, ie well muscled, you are incorrect.
 
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Holly Hocks said:
In that case there was absolutely no point in you asking what people thought then was there?
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The whole reason i asked is because my MUM wanted to hear some other opinons as she knew the woman was wrong in saying he was under wight but had nothing to back up her answer, i have gotten loads of feedback and have taken it ALL on board! i think the best way to settle this will come down to seeing what the vet thinks on the matter
 
pixiebee said:
oh well, you obviously know better than everyone else.
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No this is just not what i have been tought in my time with horses tbh the first time ive heard someone say feeding them up will bring muscle, i will speak to my intructors, vet and other people though as i know i could be wrong but like i have said i know im no expert and i am still learning and i also dont want you or anyone else to think im ignoring your advice because im not, i have taken it all on board
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
The whole reason i asked is because my MUM wanted to hear some other opinons as she knew the woman was wrong in saying he was under wight but had nothing to back up her answer, i have gotten loads of feedback and have taken it ALL on board! i think the best way to settle this will come down to seeing what the vet thinks on the matter
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But the woman wasn't wrong in saying he was underweight, was she, if you read most of the answers on here? Maybe wrong in feeding him, but not wrong in her comments.
 
quirky said:
The horse is not a baby. Using that as an excuse for not having top line, is just that, an excuse.

If you are working him correctly, so he should develop top line, then maybe you do need to look at his forage intake.
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Im not using that as an excuse that is exactly what we were told by the judge at our last show (last weekend) and also by our vet last time she was out (last month) i am working on his topline just now and already noticing a difference with him
 
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