My horse is 'seriously underweight'

OP - have you got some photos of him when he was getting adlib forage just to show how obese he got? It would be interesting to compare them to see the difference. :)
 
goldenmint said:
OP does he get a morning feed, could you change him onto a mixture of part hay part haylage? Can he stay out on good grass for longer each day or 24hrs if weather good?
What conditioning mix are you using? And why the scoop of oats?
Click to expand...

He gets an evening feed only! Vets advice was throughout spring/summer months keep him on hay, he is usually out longer at the weekend but during the week cant have him out any longer than 12 hours. D&H conditioning mix, it was suggested by several people as its a natural food source and a good provider of energy
 
A stuffed haynet means nothing.
Haynets come in different sizes. Some peoples idea of a full haynet may differ from others. I agree that you should weigh it so you know exactly what you are feeding.
When I looked at your photos my first impression was lovely horse with a big frame that he hasnt filled. He lacks muscle and is slightly underweight.
 
lcharles said:
Too many over weight horse are about which is why people think fit and healthy horses are 'underweight' x he looks lovely x Few people said my horse was underweight when he was hunting/team chasing fit, we have a yard full of happy hackers with over weight horse x Ignore the women and carry on as you are, hes gorgeous x :D
Click to expand...

LIKE this comment a lot!!

My horse is also hunting/team chasing fit and i am constantly getting told that she is seriously underweight. This coming from people who own morbidly obese cobs that can barely trot up our hills!!

OP carry on as you are he looks great to me :)
 
OP, you state that he has plenty of grazing, hard feed, and the hay you are giving him, that combined with the extras the other woman is giving him equates to how he looks now. If I were you, id do as you plan and double net the hay at night but at the same time as ensuring this woman does not feed him, I'd be adding an extra cake of hay each night. Now, you do not need to take away what she is adding to see what the result will be, you know this will logically have an effect. An extra cake will not make him fat, and whilst he doesn't need to be larger, he should be developing topline and muscle on the work he is doing, he is obviously not getting enough to be able to do this, so you already know that regardless of what she is feeding he could do with a tad more, not for fat but for muscle. You could of course provide this energy with additional hard feed, but far better for your horse to provide it with forage. Should he start to look a bit bigger, you can always start to adjust this down a bit, he can gain a bit of weight and he will still look as fab as he does, but he couldn't get away with losing it, he would look underweight. If it were me, I'd be adding a cake of hay to a double Haynet a night, stopping this woman's interference, weight taping him and continue to monitor, then take it from there, but remember whatever he is receiving at the moment (including what she is feeding) is obviously not enough to build his muscle sufficiently... And when he is all muscled up he will look so much more handsome than he already does. So you already know you need to increase his intake on some level, and forage would be the best way. Hopefully the comments on here will provide your mum with a greater understanding of this :)
 
You asked for advice, you got advice. Now all your doing is arguing as to why your right and everyone else is wrong. Agree with brick wall comment
 
I wouldn't argue with your vet I'm sure he is by far mire qualified than me on what to feed, but can I suggest you have a really good chat with a feed company ( the nutrionalist at D&H would be a good place to start as you are using their mix anyway)

If it was me I would feed ad lib hay or haylage depending on horse, I would then feed a good quality balancer with a little basic chaff and go from there. See if he needs anymore than that, if so I would think about using haylage rather than hay and using oil. If he still needed more after that I would go down the build up mix route.

Of course this is your horse and this is only what I would do if it was me. I would think getting advice from vet or nutritionalyst would be a good plan though. He really doesnt need a lot more weight, just a bit of tweaking to give his muscles extra fuel :-)
 
Not right for someone else to feed him. but i would say he needs a little more meat on him as i can see his ribs from the pic and they should be felt but not seen
 
goldenmint said:
I wouldn't argue with your vet I'm sure he is by far mire qualified than me on what to feed, but can I suggest you have a really good chat with a feed company ( the nutrionalist at D&H would be a good place to start as you are using their mix anyway)

If it was me I would feed ad lib hay or haylage depending on horse, I would then feed a good quality balancer with a little basic chaff and go from there. See if he needs anymore than that, if so I would think about using haylage rather than hay and using oil. If he still needed more after that I would go down the build up mix route.

Of course this is your horse and this is only what I would do if it was me. I would think getting advice from vet or nutritionalyst would be a good plan though. He really doesnt need a lot more weight, just a bit of tweaking to give his muscles extra fuel :-)
Click to expand...

Thanks, yes think i will speak to and get more advice from the vet or nutitionalyst
 
Now this might be really stupid. Why don't you ask the interfering livery how much and how often she was supplementing his diet? Then you can increase how much you're giving proportionally. They need to be getting sufficient protein to build muscle, if he's in correct work at his age he really ought to be buiding it - he's not so you need to increase the protein in his diet. As others have said weighing the Hay is also necessary so you know how much he is getting.
 
OP - I think when you see your horse day in day out it is very hard sometimes to get it just right...we are all sooo paranoid about overfeeding and horses being fat (especially youngsters) that I dont blame you for airing on the leaner side...I bet your vet agreed as most would...I would say from an outsiders view that he is a little lean and people are advising well on here IMO.

I think he is lovely and you should be relieved he can take more hay....I hate it when a stable horse needs too much restriction! so enjoy the fact he can take some more feed.

I would do as others have said..up his forage, look at a balancer for his vits. Buy a weigh hook as I wouldn't be without unless feeding adlib.

Perhaps the lady felt she couldn't speak with you...or that you were very unlikely to change your views...she still shouldn't have fed...she should have reported her concerns to the YO.
 
An old man, a boy, and a pony called Fergus once set out for market. On the way to the market, the boy told the old man to ride and he would walk. A little way down the road, they met some people. One of these said to his companions, "Look at that lazy old man riding while he makes that poor young lad walk!"

So the old man got off the pony and the boy got on.

The next lot of people they met remarked, "Look at that! Just the lad riding when the pony is quite strong enough to carry them both! They must be stupid!". So they both got on the pony.

Another mile down the road, they met some more people. One remarked how cruel they were to both be riding the pony, adding, "Those b*st*ards should carry that poor little pony! Fancy making him carry them both! Call the RSPCA!".

So they got off the pony, picked it up between them, and carried it the rest of the way to the market. When they got there, everyone fell about laughing to see two men carrying a pony!

So, there you go. There is no pleasing everyone in this world. If I had started this thread, I would have thanked everyone profusely for their advice about 20 pages ago and gone off and done what I felt was the right thing. Some people will never be satisfied with what you say or do so there is really no point in worrying what they will think. A wise old man once told me always to ask for advice (as the OP has done), adding with a smile, "You don't have to take it!";)
 
Op, just do a google for 'feeding for top line in horses' or 'how to develop top line in horses' you will come up with some really informative stuff.

As an aside, the other horses that you see on much less than your horse... Well this could be for any number of reasons, different metabolism, high oil feeds... Less feed but way higher calories, being just two. At six your horse is able to build muscle/top line and the only reason it is lacking is his energy intake is just sufficient to keep him looking the way he is now, it takes the body energy to develop muscle, your horse is not being fed excess energy that he can use for this at present.
 
Dry Rot said:
An old man, a boy, and a pony called Fergus once set out for market. On the way to the market, the boy told the old man to ride and he would walk. A little way down the road, they met some people. One of these said to his companions, "Look at that lazy old man riding while he makes that poor young lad walk!"

So the old man got off the pony and the boy got on.

The next lot of people they met remarked, "Look at that! Just the lad riding when the pony is quite strong enough to carry them both! They must be stupid!". So they both got on the pony.

Another mile down the road, they met some more people. One remarked how cruel they were to both be riding the pony, adding, "Those b*st*ards should carry that poor little pony! Fancy making him carry them both! Call the RSPCA!".

So they got off the pony, picked it up between them, and carried it the rest of the way to the market. When they got there, everyone fell about laughing to see two men carrying a pony!

So, there you go. There is no pleasing everyone in this world. If I had started this thread, I would have thanked everyone profusely for their advice about 20 pages ago and gone off and done what I felt was the right thing. Some people will never be satisfied with what you say or do so there is really no point in worrying what they will think. A wise old man once told me always to ask for advice (as the OP has done), adding with a smile, "You don't have to take it!";)
Click to expand...

I love this post :D OP, as you know, your horse is not 'seriously underweight' :rolleyes:

Once you start engaging with the armchair experts of HHO you are onto a loser. Better to spend the time with your pony rather than in engaging in fruitless debate with those who will always know best:)
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
my mum would like to hear some of your opinions of my horses weight! Please be honest, thanks!
Click to expand...

Arabelle said:
Once you start engaging with the armchair experts of HHO you are onto a loser. Better to spend the time with your pony rather than in engaging in fruitless debate with those who will always know best:)
Click to expand...

OP asked for opinions and now you're criticising people for offering their opinions :confused:
 
Arabelle said:
I love this post :D OP, as you know, your horse is not 'seriously underweight' :rolleyes:

Once you start engaging with the armchair experts of HHO you are onto a loser. Better to spend the time with your pony rather than in engaging in fruitless debate with those who will always know best:)
Click to expand...

So if that is how you feel then why are you posting?
 
OP has said on a number of occassions now, in a polite and pleasant manner, that she will take on board the advice offered. I think we can safely put the matter to bed now and move on!

Poor OP will need some paracetamol by the end of this!
 
Moomin1 said:
OP has said on a number of occassions now, in a polite and pleasant manner, that she will take on board the advice offered. I think we can safely put the matter to bed now and move on!

Poor OP will need some paracetamol by the end of this!
Click to expand...

Totally agree.

Offering an opinion is one thing - to which the OP has taken on board.
Being out & out witches as at least three posters on here have been is not constructive and although tone does not always translate well when written there is no mistaking their tone.
IMO I would much rather see a horse in this condition than one even slightly overweight resulting in long term health problems. As we all know there are far too many ponies/horses out there seriously overweight that it is becoming the norm. Having natives I am constantly battling weight issues even on minimal hay at this time of year and being told by show judges that I need to seriously 'bulk' them up. I just wish my vet was there to give them some advice as I know exactly how he feels.
OP, there is some good advice on here- take it. There is also some unnecessary cutting remarks which I would choose to ignore and as for the person feeding your horse - well I would personally go BALLISTIC at them.
 
Personally, I would feed him more given the amount of work you do with him. I would have thought that if he were getting the correct feeding, Then he would have more muscle and topline by now though.
 
cambrica said:
Totally agree.

Offering an opinion is one thing - to which the OP has taken on board.
Being out & out witches as at least three posters on here have been is not constructive and although tone does not always translate well when written there is no mistaking their tone.
IMO I would much rather see a horse in this condition than one even slightly overweight resulting in long term health problems. As we all know there are far too many ponies/horses out there seriously overweight that it is becoming the norm. Having natives I am constantly battling weight issues even on minimal hay at this time of year and being told by show judges that I need to seriously 'bulk' them up. I just wish my vet was there to give them some advice as I know exactly how he feels.
OP, there is some good advice on here- take it. There is also some unnecessary cutting remarks which I would choose to ignore and as for the person feeding your horse - well I would personally go BALLISTIC at them.
Click to expand...

^Totally agree..
I'm still a little shocked at some peoples responses, when you consider the horses out there that ARE starved! No wonder there are so many 'lurkers', it's a pretty terrifying place to post about any form of issue, sensitive or not. :(

Some people have lean TB's, some have porky cobs, it has never been my place to truly tell someone that what they are doing is so very wrong, as so many have done to the OP here. Unless the horse is suffering as a result of it's bodyweight, then there is an element of accepting 'every horse is individual', the OP has stated a fair few times that she is taking the advice on board, and in my opinion has been very chivalrous despite some very vindictive replies.

For what it's worth, I think he is a very handsome boy :)
 
Hot_Toddy7 said:
I'm still a little shocked at some peoples responses, when you consider the horses out there that ARE starved! No wonder there are so many 'lurkers', it's a pretty terrifying place to post about any form of issue, sensitive or not. :(

...despite some very vindictive replies.
Click to expand...

I've been following this thread all day but I can't say I've seen any "very vindictive replies", although it's possible I've missed a post or two. I think what some people are frustrated with is the way the OP has asked for opinions yet doesn't seem to want to hear any that disagree with her. I know she has said she will take everyone's posts on board, but there've been a fair few "no but..." replies to others' suggestions. That's entirely the OP's prerogative - she's not obliged to do anything anyone suggests.

I still think there is no point judging the weight or condition of the horse from the photos posted in this thread as the OP has no idea how much extra food her horse has been receiving from the other livery. If it's very little, then the photos are probably reasonably accurate; if it's a lot then the photos may be grossly misrepresentative of the condition of the horse prior to the other livery feeding.

None of that excuses the other livery's actions, but then the point of the OP was whether HHO thinks the horse is (was!) "seriously underweight"...which none of us can judge after the extra feeding.
 
monkeybum13 said:
For those thank think it is acceptable for another livery to be giving him extra hay would you think it acceptable for someone to go in an overweight horses stable and remove some of their food?

If its not your horse don't feed it. If you think there is something wrong with the horses weight then talk to the owner, don't go feeding it without permission.
Click to expand...

This, regardless of weight. If the owner thinks the horse is maintaining weight on the feed they are giving it, why would they ever increase it? It's not up to someone else to 'sneak' the horse extra haylage, that's helping nobody in the long run.
 
pookie said:
I still think there is no point judging the weight or condition of the horse from the photos posted in this thread as the OP has no idea how much extra food her horse has been receiving from the other livery. If it's very little, then the photos are probably reasonably accurate; if it's a lot then the photos may be grossly misrepresentative of the condition of the horse prior to the other livery feeding.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree with you on this bit. We, in all honesty, have no idea what this 'extra hay' amounts to, in the same way that the OP doesn't. In my eyes the horse doesn't look drastically underweight, maybe a little lean, but some like them that way, and as long as he isn't suffering, all we can do is offer friendly advice, that is advice based on personal opinion.

I think I'll go back to lurking, even reading disagreements on forums gets me all anxious :D *Climbs back into crazy persons box*
 
I think he is a smidge under 'ideal' (ie fit, but well covered) judging by the size of his frame he looks to be a big, solid horse, which his weight is not demonstrating. That said, I would always prefer a slightly leaner horse than one that is over weight. I think they cope much better with work than something lugging extra kgs around.

I think many people mistake a slightly underdone horse like this and think it looks like a super fit horse in hard condition. This horse is lacking in muscle tone, and top line, where as a horse in hard condition should be covered in lean muscle mass and will have a top line.

I think the main concern here is that with a slight increase in work, this horse could be in danger of becoming under weight. As it is, he looks to just be receiving enough carbs/fats/proteins in his diet to maintain some condition. Personally, I would be increasing his feed, because he will not develop a topline if he doesn't have the right nutrition. If you are keeping him light on purpose for the sake of temperament while you educate him a bit, there is nothing wrong with that as long as you carefully moniter his condition and also his protein/carb intake otherwise he could turn very quickly.

As to the other livery feeding him... well I would be furious! Being sneaky will never achieve anything, and has perhaps backfired on her because I don't think anyone would be particularly accepting of why she did it! If she'd maybe approached the subject in an open and friendly way and left it open for discussion, it would have probably worked better.
 
Haven't read all your replies here but would say.... Get hold of a copy of the DEFRA codes of practice for horses and refer anyone saying your horse is underweight to page 11, and ask them which your horse resembles, here is the link: http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/cop-horse.pdf take all angles into account, i.e might be a 2 in the rib area, a 3 over the pelvis, a 2 in the neck (these are just examples) and take the average over all the scores as the overall score....
 
Last edited:
pookie said:
I've been following this thread all day but I can't say I've seen any "very vindictive replies", although it's possible I've missed a post or two. I think what some people are frustrated with is the way the OP has asked for opinions yet doesn't seem to want to hear any that disagree with her. I know she has said she will take everyone's posts on board, but there've been a fair few "no but..." replies to others' suggestions. That's entirely the OP's prerogative - she's not obliged to do anything anyone suggests.

I still think there is no point judging the weight or condition of the horse from the photos posted in this thread as the OP has no idea how much extra food her horse has been receiving from the other livery. If it's very little, then the photos are probably reasonably accurate; if it's a lot then the photos may be grossly misrepresentative of the condition of the horse prior to the other livery feeding.

None of that excuses the other livery's actions, but then the point of the OP was whether HHO thinks the horse is (was!) "seriously underweight"...which none of us can judge after the extra feeding.
Click to expand...

Possibly then you should read your response to feeding = muscle tone as that carries very sarcastic undertones along with Hollyhocks response.

Feeding up does not increase muscle. Feeding extra when combined with a training / exercise program does.
The fact remains that the horse is in no way 'seriously underweight' and now he's finished growing upwards should bulk out naturally over the next year or two.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top