My horse killed my best friends dog, I need some advice :(

Unless the horse went by it's self and opened the car and let the dog out into the yard and then deliberately trampled it to death, then this is human error, not the horses fault.

A hard lesson for you/your friend but no reason to make it worse by selling your horse.

I am a shepherd and often am asked to gather sheep out of fields of horses always with the stupid line "they are fine with dogs". No they are big animals which often take stupid impulses to run around and stomp for no reason. Never ever risk it.
 
Thankyou all so much for you kind words and advise, I really appreciate that you've taken time out of your day to reassure and console me. I agree with pretty much all the comments and I know my horse isn't at fault. I don't blame him for being a horse.
The decision to sell/ loan was based on the fact that much as I adore him, I do feel a more competitive home would suit him anyway, whilst he's happy with me and we do lots of things together, I can't compete which I think he would thrive on.
I'm still undecided on what to do, it doesn't help when I have a really good schooling session then go for a blast in the newly cut field and he doesnt put a hoof wrong! He was a doll.
I was unsure about what to do with him because we share duties with the horses, doing them together gives me a day off here and there and means we can hack out together, give each other lessons and generally be there for support. Unfortunately now obviously, anytime she looks at my horse , all she sees is him stomping on her baby. Which haunts her now and will for a time. I think she knows deep down he's not to blame but it's hard to disassociate when he was the one that ended her life.

As _GG_ has pointed out, she really blames herself, and it's heartbreaking for me to see her with so much regret and guilt for the whole situation. The dog, though a small breed, was a true outdoorsy pooch and loved nothing more than galloping about. In this instance there were two people, my friend and another. The other was asked to hold the dog as my horse can sometimes be a handful if he gets the wind up him, he is just five so can sometimes be cheeky. At some point the dog was put down and went to my friend, which is when the horrific incident happened. So not only does she blame herself but also the other person.
I have not received any blame from her, at all. And has said she wouldn't want me to sell him in a rush and would never ask me/expect me to. I would never sell him to just any home and it would have to be someone special, as he's special to me. But it wasn't a decision out of hate/dislike of my horse, but more support for my friend.

She is my foremost in my mind. She has been up the yard once since, but found it difficult. The drive runs along the same field where it happened and she feels betrayed not only by the horse she helped me break, but also equines in general. The dog meant the world to her, she was her baby, and she slept with her everynight of her 7 or so years. She has also been in my life for that amount of time so it's heartbreaking to know something I own took something that meant so much to my best friend, regardless of who was ultimately to blame.

So please don't think I made the decision lightly or on a whim, though it may have been somewhat of a knee jerk reaction! I just feel like I want to explain my thinking as opposed to being seen as a 'oh I'll just sell him and get another less dog agressive one' kind of person.

Again, thankyou all so much for your words, and it has helped me tremendously in not blaming myself, or Dev <3 You've all been great!
 
Betrayed by a horse. She really has no idea has she. They don't do betrayal they act on instinct. There is nothing you can do now, it was an accident. There is no decision to make. You weren't thinking of selling him before this so there is no need to be now. I really don't get how you or your friend can feel it was done on purpose. It was an accident. Sorry
 
The Polo Bear said:
Betrayed by a horse. She really has no idea has she. They don't do betrayal they act on instinct. There is nothing you can do now, it was an accident. There is no decision to make. You weren't thinking of selling him before this so there is no need to be now. I really don't get how you or your friend can feel it was done on purpose. It was an accident. Sorry
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Neither of us feel it was done on purpose. She's grieving, but she knows this.

She saw her baby pummelled by the front hooves of my horse (regardless of who's fault or on purpose or not). She had to pick up her lifeless body with her eyes out of her skull and blood pouring out of her mouth. She has to live with the fact that she led her most precious thing to her death. I'm lucky that I wasn't there and have only my imagination to provide a picture, but she sees her baby that way anytime she sees my horse. And I hope for your sake you don't have to ever experience the same thing happen to something you love so unconditionally.
 
It was an accident, full stop! I wouldn't trust any of our horses with a small dog.
It sounds as though you have a good horse there. So why would he be happier in a competition home? All horses care about is being safe and looked after, preferably by people they love - they have no idea about ambition.
I'll ask you two questions:
If it had been your dog that was killed by your horse, would you blame yourself or the horse?
If you sell the horse, are you punishing yourself or the horse?

Whatever you do your friend will continue to see what happened in her mind for some time I'm afraid.
 
Oh gosh, it's just so awful for both of you. Hopefully time will help to heal, ever since I first saw this thread I've been extra vigilant taking my dog to the yard.

RIP little doggy xx
 
What an awful thing to happen, I'm so sorry for both of you and the little dog. Accidents do happen, heartbreaking as it is - it was an awful tragic accident :(
 
it is awful what happened, but - her 'baby'??? No, it was her dog. I have a sneaking suspicion you feel you have to get rid of the horse because at the moment your friend has the moral high ground. Sorry.
 
I thought if you and this thread this morning when my friend posted photos of her little terrier puppy 'getting to know' her horse.
My sympathies to you both. Can't be easy for either of you
 
I'm not sure if people are reading the update or not...

I feel so sorry for your friend :( I couldn't imagine losing an animal in such a way...especially since by the way you describe it, it wasn't exactly a clean kill either. It was hard enough watching my Annie go and she was pts quietly in her home at the grand age of 16!
It must be so upsetting for all of you. It sounds like she never really blamed you, but is just understandably upset. I hope in time, you can go back to the way you were before :)
 
How will you feel if you sell the horse then your friend moves yards or decides to give up horses and is no longer around to help you out? Myself and most people I know aren't in near daily contact with any life long friends we have. The friends we see most often seem to be generally only around for a few years before lives go along different tracks and contact becomes less frequent or ceases altogether. You could potentially have your horse around for a lot longer than your best friend. I wouldn't get rid of my horse for anybody. I don't think your horse needs a competition home either, horses have no concept of being "wasted" in a leisure home.
 
I feel so sorry for you both - really horrible.

As you say, your friend will clearly blame herself and will have to come to terms with that but it will be very raw for a while. I always used to let my dogs come and mooch around the field as I trusted my horses and fairly recentlg my ISH ran over my Cocker. Def did it on purpose, made no attempt to avoid him but thankfully my little dog was ok. However, I will NEVER let the dogs loose in the field with the boys again. Completely my own fault and I felt absolutely dreadful having put my little dog (whom I naturally absolutely adore) at risk. I can only imagine how your poor friend must feel

Try not to let this affect how you feel about your horse, he's not to blame. My ISH also actually kicked me recently about 2 weeks after running over the dog! He was a little unpopular for a few days but I accept that he's a horse and will behave as such and complacency around them (which is easily done when you handle them daily) is a dangerous thing

So sorry for the loss of your friends pup in such horrible circumstances, I hope you can help each other to heal xx
 
Horses do not need competition homes, he will not know any different. Please don't sell him for that reason either.
 
why on earth are you thinking of selling your horse???. You said yourself you have a great time on him - horses have no concept of 'competition homes' and are never wasted with someone who loves them.

Hard to believe now, but this will pass. Your friend will get over it and probably get another dog who she will love equally. I'm sure this time she won't allow it loose around horses. But she will get over this. I had a horrific thing happen and never thought i'd sleep again, but it passes and time heals, it really does. Shock is horrible and feels like it will never end, but it does, and pain fades to a memory. Your horse did nothing wrong, so please please don't sell him, it's not fair on him. Or at least wait 6 months or so and see how you feel then.

Your friend made a horrible error letting her dog loose, all blame should be on her. Subconsciously she might be putting vibes across that its others fault to help ease her guilt, so don't let that happen. She mightn't even know she's doing it. But please don't sell your horse. . Its horrible a dog was killed but it was two animals with instincts reacting to each other. Imagine in a years time your friend has a new dog and is happy around the yard, and you have sold your horse and someone else is out enjoying galloping it in fields in the summer. And you haven't found a new horse you've clicked with. It would be awful. Time will make this pass, so please don't sell your horse.
 
paddi22 said:
why on earth are you thinking of selling your horse???. You said yourself you have a great time on him - horses have no concept of 'competition homes' and are never wasted with someone who loves them.

Hard to believe now, but this will pass. Your friend will get over it and probably get another dog who she will love equally. I'm sure this time she won't allow it loose around horses. But she will get over this. I had a horrific thing happen and never thought i'd sleep again, but it passes and time heals, it really does. Shock is horrible and feels like it will never end, but it does, and pain fades to a memory. Your horse did nothing wrong, so please please don't sell him, it's not fair on him. Or at least wait 6 months or so and see how you feel then.

Your friend made a horrible error letting her dog loose, all blame should be on her. Subconsciously she might be putting vibes across that its others fault to help ease her guilt, so don't let that happen. She mightn't even know she's doing it. But please don't sell your horse. . Its horrible a dog was killed but it was two animals with instincts reacting to each other. Imagine in a years time your friend has a new dog and is happy around the yard, and you have sold your horse and someone else is out enjoying galloping it in fields in the summer. And you haven't found a new horse you've clicked with. It would be awful. Time will make this pass, so please don't sell your horse.
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I really do very much agree with paddi22
 
Red Devlin,

You didn't need to justify anything but you have done it well. Whether you choose to sell your horse or not is your call so the opinions of others on the matter are irrelevant. I wouldn't sell, but I can understand why you are considering it. Again, don't do anything in any short time frame. I'd actually wait the year out...the only way your friend will overcome the pictures in her mind of your horse is by replacing them. The only way she will overcome the picture in her mind of her dog on that day is to replace them with good memories.
Your friend is going to have to man up a bit in the sense that she needs to put this all into perspective. The loss of a dog like that is extremely hard to bear, but worse things will happen in her life and so she needs to learn how to grieve and move on. As hard as that sounds, it is true and sometimes it means having some tough conversations. Being the always nice friend doesn't always equate to being the best friend. Sometime we need to put someone's long term mental health ahead of their current feelings.

Of course the dog isn't a baby...neither are mine but I refer to them as that, especially Stig and it in no way reflects on the fact that I know they are dogs and they get treated like dogs. No babying, no treats, no eating my food, no running riot. They are dogs, but I love them as part of my family and I don't think anyone should belittle what this dog meant to your friend.

You, as her friend, need to get her back up that yard with a plan. Not just a visit where she has the freedom to dwell, but with a plan to do something. When she invariably says she can't or it's too much, you need to dose out a little tough love. You need to tell her that ignoring her horse won't bring her dog back and in the long run, will only add to her guilt, so she needs to just get on with it.

It's been long enough...she needs to wake up from it a bit now. Think Iron fist and velvet glove. Treat her gently but don't be afraid ot be hard for her long term benefit.


xxx
 
OP I think you are such a kind and caring friend. I think some people do not realise just how much certain animals can mean to us. I have had many animals in my life and have loved them all. But they are not equal. My mare who I lost last year meant more to me than I could ever start to describe and the pain from her loss is still very raw and cutting. It physically hurts when I think to the day I had her PTS. I have one little dog who also means the world to me. She is a JRT but as small as a Chihuahua. The thought of her being squashed like your friend's dog is an unbearable thought and I think it would take me years to get over it. Even though it was not your horse's fault, I think I would feel the same way as your friend. Your horse was just being a horse, but I really don't think your friend will ever be able to forgive him.
 
WelshD said:
Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better
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Horrible thing to happen but I agree with this.
 
WelshD said:
Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better
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I have to say 100% this. My mum has a mini schnauzer, and my horse at the time was an aged Anglo mare, and despite seeing that dog ever day for a year she went for it one day.

If it was a very small dog then she really shouldn't have had it around LARGE animals. We warn children that horses are unpredictable and dangerous yet let dogs run around them. A dog is a horses predator, whatever its size.

So do not feel bad. It was NOT your fault or your horses. He is an INNOCENT animal.
 
Wagtail said:
OP I think you are such a kind and caring friend. I think some people do not realise just how much certain animals can mean to us. I have had many animals in my life and have loved them all. But they are not equal. My mare who I lost last year meant more to me than I could ever start to describe and the pain from her loss is still very raw and cutting. It physically hurts when I think to the day I had her PTS. I have one little dog who also means the world to me. She is a JRT but as small as a Chihuahua. The thought of her being squashed like your friend's dog is an unbearable thought and I think it would take me years to get over it. Even though it was not your horse's fault, I think I would feel the same way as your friend. Your horse was just being a horse, but I really don't think your friend will ever be able to forgive him.
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Absolutely agree with this. I want to clarify that my post was aimed at the OP's friend not allowing her grief to overrun her life. Loss is a part of life and it's a part we have to learn to deal with. I can't even begin to imagine how horrific the memory of what happened is for her and I also agree that it could take years to get over it...if we ever actually do. Stig is my dog, the others are ours. I love them all so so much, but Stig is my boy and extra special to me and I know that when his time comes, I will be absolutely floored. We know Hollie doesn't have too long left, well, being a 15yr old collie, you'd think that, not that she's got the memo.

I think I'm trying (and mostly failing) to say that as hard as it is and as much as it hurts, as an adult with another animal to care for, the OPs friend doesn't have the luxury of limitless time and it would most likely help her more to get her back out and about and being horsey.

No, I don't think I could ever feel the same about that horse again, but that is association. Anyone saying that she shouldn't feel that way about a horse is being a little unrealistic. It's not blame, it's association and it's entirely understandable.
 
ooooo we do like a drama.

Whilst this is a sorry tale, and i feel for both of you in this position, i do also think we need to calm down a little bit.

My horse died, because of another horse, it happens a lot .. kicks etc. Yes tragically my horse was like my child and i saw the aftermath, and yes i have to see that other horse every day... but i also have another horse to look after, so whilst i have to drive up the same drive and see them out in the same field I am not expecting the other person to sell their horse, i am not expecting anyone else to look after mine... **** happens with animals sometimes, its no ones fault, and you have to take the rough with the smooth. I totally get why you feel guilty and why your friend is upset, but she needs to get back to the yard and look after her horse and try and move on. And you cannot be held responsible - and you definitely shouldn't sell your horse because of this.

Accidents happen, whether its dogs, horses or humans. We can try out best to avoid them but they will still happen. No one is responsible, everyone needs to try and move on

Good luck.
 
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I do find this quite odd to be completely honest; so I'm going to break it down.

1 - Even the most gentle, quiet, 'used to dogs' horses can fatally injure any animal; even when it's not provoked. How often have you see horses spook and act like theres a monster behind a bunch of flowers, when there's clearly nothing there. They see and sense things we don't.

2 - No one is at fault 100%. Your friend let her dog mingle with loose horses. This is purely an unfortunate accident, just as horses kicking another horse and breaking its leg.

3 - There is no reason to sell/loan your horse. Again, the horse was doing this out of herd/self defence, even if the dog wasn't acting aggressive the horse has sensed him as a danger.

4 - Horses can NOT betray you. They are not capable of betrayal. Your horse did not do this maliciously.

5 - Yes, the dogs owner will be heartbroken and it will take time to heal, but getting rid of your horse because of this will not solve anything.

6 - In the nicest way possible, you both need to calm down, talk it out and get on with your lives.
 
I am another who would say don't sell your horse as I could see both of you selling them. You say this will be what yur friend sees everytime she will look at him, but it might be what sue sees looking at any horse on that yard. What good will selling your horse do if sue decides to leave horses altogether.

Its a not like falling off either she needs to get back to the yard and take care of her other animals or she will go away while she grieves and then possibly come back when she is ready or stay away. i would go and see her, take her out and be a friend forget the horses for a night and help her, then be there for her when she feels ready to come back.
 
_GG_ said:
Red Devlin,

You didn't need to justify anything but you have done it well. Whether you choose to sell your horse or not is your call so the opinions of others on the matter are irrelevant. I wouldn't sell, but I can understand why you are considering it. Again, don't do anything in any short time frame. I'd actually wait the year out...the only way your friend will overcome the pictures in her mind of your horse is by replacing them. The only way she will overcome the picture in her mind of her dog on that day is to replace them with good memories.
Your friend is going to have to man up a bit in the sense that she needs to put this all into perspective. The loss of a dog like that is extremely hard to bear, but worse things will happen in her life and so she needs to learn how to grieve and move on. As hard as that sounds, it is true and sometimes it means having some tough conversations. Being the always nice friend doesn't always equate to being the best friend. Sometime we need to put someone's long term mental health ahead of their current feelings.

Of course the dog isn't a baby...neither are mine but I refer to them as that, especially Stig and it in no way reflects on the fact that I know they are dogs and they get treated like dogs. No babying, no treats, no eating my food, no running riot. They are dogs, but I love them as part of my family and I don't think anyone should belittle what this dog meant to your friend.

You, as her friend, need to get her back up that yard with a plan. Not just a visit where she has the freedom to dwell, but with a plan to do something. When she invariably says she can't or it's too much, you need to dose out a little tough love. You need to tell her that ignoring her horse won't bring her dog back and in the long run, will only add to her guilt, so she needs to just get on with it.

It's been long enough...she needs to wake up from it a bit now. Think Iron fist and velvet glove. Treat her gently but don't be afraid ot be hard for her long term benefit.


xxx
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Think this sums things up exactly. It's a horrible thing to have happened, but it's time to start moving on. Having said that, I don't think you should make any decisions about your horse's future while it's still fresh in everyone's mind - those sorts of decisions need a clear, unemotional and slightly detached mind and I don't think you're there yet. I wish you and your friend all the best. x
 
RedDevlin said:
Thankyou all so much for you kind words and advise, I really appreciate that you've taken time out of your day to reassure and console me. I agree with pretty much all the comments and I know my horse isn't at fault. I don't blame him for being a horse.
The decision to sell/ loan was based on the fact that much as I adore him, I do feel a more competitive home would suit him anyway, whilst he's happy with me and we do lots of things together, I can't compete which I think he would thrive on.
I'm still undecided on what to do, it doesn't help when I have a really good schooling session then go for a blast in the newly cut field and he doesnt put a hoof wrong! He was a doll.
I was unsure about what to do with him because we share duties with the horses, doing them together gives me a day off here and there and means we can hack out together, give each other lessons and generally be there for support. Unfortunately now obviously, anytime she looks at my horse , all she sees is him stomping on her baby. Which haunts her now and will for a time. I think she knows deep down he's not to blame but it's hard to disassociate when he was the one that ended her life.

As _GG_ has pointed out, she really blames herself, and it's heartbreaking for me to see her with so much regret and guilt for the whole situation. The dog, though a small breed, was a true outdoorsy pooch and loved nothing more than galloping about. In this instance there were two people, my friend and another. The other was asked to hold the dog as my horse can sometimes be a handful if he gets the wind up him, he is just five so can sometimes be cheeky. At some point the dog was put down and went to my friend, which is when the horrific incident happened. So not only does she blame herself but also the other person.
I have not received any blame from her, at all. And has said she wouldn't want me to sell him in a rush and would never ask me/expect me to. I would never sell him to just any home and it would have to be someone special, as he's special to me. But it wasn't a decision out of hate/dislike of my horse, but more support for my friend.

She is my foremost in my mind. She has been up the yard once since, but found it difficult. The drive runs along the same field where it happened and she feels betrayed not only by the horse she helped me break, but also equines in general. The dog meant the world to her, she was her baby, and she slept with her everynight of her 7 or so years. She has also been in my life for that amount of time so it's heartbreaking to know something I own took something that meant so much to my best friend, regardless of who was ultimately to blame.

So please don't think I made the decision lightly or on a whim, though it may have been somewhat of a knee jerk reaction! I just feel like I want to explain my thinking as opposed to being seen as a 'oh I'll just sell him and get another less dog agressive one' kind of person.

Again, thankyou all so much for your words, and it has helped me tremendously in not blaming myself, or Dev <3 You've all been great!
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I'm sorry your friend lost her dog, but it was nothing to do with you or your horse. The responsibility lies with your friend and with the person who was supposed to be holding the dog at the time. Your horse is young and you say can sometimes be a handful. The dog should have been kept well away from him, and sadly wasn't :( A horrible incident, but mistakes happen.

Honestly, I would not sell because of this. Instead I would consider moving yards and/or perhaps looking into Full Livery to have the support needed. Although it may be moot, as your friend may well decide to get out of horses herself after this. And that would also not be your fault, OP. Please try not to burden yourself with unnecessary guilt.
 
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