My horses last chance, barefoot peeps please

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thatsmygirl

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Well could be!!
Following my last thread which didn't get a lot off interest I'm seeking help and advise.
Shoes are crippling my horse to put it blint, vet is coming on mon and I want x rays carried out. Everytime he is shod he is so sore he can't walk, currently on box rest and bute after shoeing wed.
His feet are flat, under run and horrid in every way but what's above them is sweet, loving and so kind so iv promised to give him new feet. He's a ex racer 9 yr old firm ground runner.
I tried to go barefoot before which just didn't work for some reason and went so so sore but for his sake I have to try again so I'm after good advise and answers to my questions below. Rockley is out the question due to price but if this don't work it could well be the end.
Current diet
baileys topline cubes ( need to swap as cereal based,) what can I replace them with that will do the same job? He does need weight gaining feed.
Hi fi molasses free ( just noticed it has alfa ain it ) anything else I could use?
Equimins advancecomplete
micro linseed
mag oz
yea sacc ( dobson and horrell) are they all cereal based?
Cani still feed yea sacc with the equmins?
Any advise please please post I really need to grow a new pair off feet for my lad and really don't want to go down the bar route as I don't feel it will work.
I don't care if I can't ride for a year or whatever, I get just as much joy just being with him so please any input will be great. Thanks
 
Just to add the farrier which wasn't my normal one shod him on wed and took far to much toe off in one go i feel ( feet look a far better shape) but he's so pottery he can't turn etc almost looks laminitic.
 
Hi thatsmygirl, we were posting on the same foot thread last night so sorry to hear about your horse.

I can't offer any advise re feet/barefoot etc but re your current diet have you looked at TopSpec cool condition cubes? They are cereal free and less than 10% combined sugar & starch. I've no idea what barefoot experts will make of them ( possibly not much! ) but if you need a conditioning type cube they may be of interest.

Also do you need the yea saac with the Equimins Advance Complete? From memory it contains both pro & pre biotics I think.

I hope you get some answers on here that will help you.
 
Can I recommned the Phoenix Horse Forum who specialise and have so much experience in keeping horses barefoot, and the ideal feeding and supplement regime.

http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org

Nic Barker from Rockley is a member and gives great advice as do most of the highly experienced barefoot owners, they are a very welcoming group.

Take some photos of your horses feet, front, back, side and soles and post them along with a commentary of what is going on.
 
Hey, I dont know much, but wanted to post to give you some reassurance :)
Give Allen&Page a call, their Fast Fibre is brilliant, and I 'think' their Calm&Condition is cereal free, another brilliant feed.
Apart from that and sending you good luck wishes and a hug, Im useless!! xx
 
Moggyinmanolos yes I will be getting hoof hoofs and pads for sure. So also what boots best suit a tb with long toes and no heel at all. His heel bulbs what's left off them are on the floor
 
It is all a bit complex, can you find a good barefoot trimmer [UKNCPH] to come and sort you out? You will need to wait 2 to four weeks after the last shoeing.
If on grass, you need to be wary of laminitis related problems.
I suggest you feed 0.5 kg of Fast Fibre and ask Equimins for advice on which mineral supplement to use. The problem is that you need a balanced and palatable mineral supplement.
There are two non molassed chaffs by Dengie, you want the low alfa, not the high alfa mix.
Do you have photos and what is current regime.... diet and work?
In my opinion no horse should be lame after shoeing, do not use this farrier again. If he continues to be lame ask farrier to remove shoes and put on thick bedding.
In the long term, you may need to have a forage analysis and a special mineral mix made up, but the majority of horses manage without.
Photos are very useful.
 
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Rosehip thanks your not useless :) I needed a hug. X
chavhorse thanks I did take a quick look last night on that site after it was posted on another thread so will follow that up.
Sonjafoers I did think about topspecs cubes and calm and condition as rosehip said so waiting for any feed back on theses. I feel I must cut out all cereal and do the best I can, he's on low sugar anyway
 
I've just got my lad back from Rockley and the diet I was advised to give him was unmolassed sugar beet, micronised linseed, mag ox, Progressive Earth's Pro Balance supplement and salt. My boy doesn't need any additional hard feed but if you need it for conditioning then Nic recommends Coolstance Copra meal, and/or rolled oats. All of her rehab horses and her own are kept on this diet with no issues. My lad looked amazing when he came home on Wednesday, nice shiny coat and very healthy all round. I've had to struggle a bit to get everything but I think it's worth it.

BTW, your supplement I think is on Nic's approved list, just the pro balance is cheaper. It's a new form of Pro Hoof which many people use but it doesn't contain the bits you don't really need which put the price up.

It's all worked really well for my lad. If you think of anything else I might be able to help with let me know, I'm not an expert but I'm doing my best to learn at the moment!

Good luck :) x
 
Also if you can get your vet to do a referral to Rockley (if he does not know enough about it to do so nik can supply you with lots of back up info) most insurers will either fully cover or cover a large percentage of the rehab costs.

May be worth looking into.

Good luck with everything, the only suggestion I can make is arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible and find a good farrier take recommendations from people in your area for someone who is good with barefoot and does not over trim (my horse has not been trimmed for over 6 months as he is self trimming all he gets is a monthly check and file of any rough edges, his frogs have not been touched for over a year)

As for hoof boots there are many but for simplicity and cost I have gone for cavello Simple boots which you can get gel pads for.

Simple systems do great non cereal forage based range and will happily speak you through what you need for your horses needs.
 
I have a barefoot ex-racer who had big problems with his feet. He is now fed on Pure Horse Feeds Working mix and wears Easyboot Gloves on his front feet. I also really rate A&P Fast Fibre. Having his shoes off and making these changes has really given him a new of lease of life. Best of luck finding something that works for your horse :)

(I seem to have promoted Pure Feed and Easyboots a lot in the last week, but I promise I'm not working for said companies!) :p
 
I don't know if it will help but there are several websites devoted to the wellbeing of barefoot horses including lots of advice on the transition. I have also heard that zinc and magnesium can be beneficial, I give it to mine and don't know if it's a coincidence but their feet have all improved since getting it, my 3 are all barefoot but being differant breeds they have differant needs depending on the weather. I hope you find a solution as it must be hard when a horse is uncomfortable, good luck.
 
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I won't be useing that farrier again as I'm quite aware he's taken off to much toe at once but even my normal farrier finds it hard and it's a fine line keeping him sound but everytime we try and bring the toe back or more shoe under his heels he can't take it and goes pottery. His current diet is as above and work load at present is nothing but was starting to come back into work.
I can't post pics as iv only got a phone but they are awful and need serious help
 
I suggest you speak to Rockley Farm, even if you end up not being able to send him there.
Second, gently change his diet to what Bikerchick suggests, it would be a good starting point, and if it's what Rockley use then it's really worth considering.
Third - where are you? Maybe someone can recommend a good professional who makes a good job of barefoot (farrier or trimmer before someone jumps on me).
You might have to take a bit of a step back in order to move forward, but it can't get much worse by the sound of things, so what have you got to lose?
 
Thank you SO much, bikerchickone that diet info is great just what I'm after.
Stupid I know but he isn't insured for vet bills hence why rockley is
out but I have my vet fund at the ready.
Thanks again guys keep it coming :)
my farrier is good but one thing I have learnt from trying barefoot before is he's not the one to help me with my lad ( Will still use him for the others) but he don't/wont understand barefoot. And it's my lads life at stake so iv also got to find a good trimmer in eastdevon if anybody knows off one ?
 
I really think a good, experienced Trimmer to hold your hand and advise is a great idea especially as you are feeling it's getting to the last chance stage. I'm so sorry btw. ((hug)) A good trimmer will have a good idea of the causes of the soreness and give you the low down on what it will take to get him comfy initially and grow good hooves in the longer term. Having someone on the spot is important I believe and you could arrange a consultation initially and take it from there.

Bickerchickone's diet is great and you could substitute the speedibeet for fast fibre. The main part of the diet is the forage though so you may need to look at grazing times and possibly soaking hay if sugars are an issue.
It does sound like his hooves are very compromised (soreness you report) so boots and pads will probably be needed for anywhere but soft supportive surfaces. Pads can be duck taped on for a more temporary support.

I think I wrote similar on your other thread but hopefully the ' BT big guns' (lol) will reply for you. x

ps. http://www.barefoot-south.com/barefoot-trimming-coverage.php
http://www.barefoothorseblog.blogspot.ie/
 
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Can't help you with the transition as mine went to Rockley (Frankie the ex racer) but I can with what works for mine feedwise

I use a base of unmolassed sugar beet
Coolstance Copra (he was fed it at Rockley and looks fab on it)
Bran but only because my forage is very low in phosperous.

Add to that a multivit I balance to the forage but good off the peg ones are the Progressive horse pro hoof, Forageplus summer/winter balance or the meta advance from equimins which isn't on the website but you can phone and ask about.)

Linseed - also good for weight gain.
Salt
Brewer's Yeast, both for the b vits and gut calming properties. I could feed yeasacc or similar instead but Brewer's yeast is cheap and he seems better on the grass with it than without.

I haven't had problems with alfalfa but I fed the pellets so no mould inhibitors or preservatives like the chaffs, I just dropped it to keep things simpler not because there was a problem.

Then as much forage as I can get him to eat (he is fine with both hay and haylage) and in the summer he goes out at night so he's not on the grass during the day.

I haven't used hoof boots recently but the ones I had for when he lost a shoe and was crippled (Boas) don't fit now as his feet are a totally different shape so be prepared that works now may not work later down the line but for very positive reason.
 
Lol, I suggested the wrong side of the country. :D Contact Nic Barker, she will be able to recommend someone in Devon. :)
 
Thanks criso iv just looked up suppliers off coolstance near me so will get some off that and slowly swap from the baileys topline. I will prob keep him on the equimins advance complete as it's taken long enough to get him to eat that. I don't feel he will eat a mash as much ( he's so fussy) so could do with sometime to get it some bulk, I'm using hi fi un molassed at the mo, is that ok? See it has got some alfa a in it?
 
moorman is down your way I think?

I asked Nic if she knew anyone near me (she did ;) ) but also got a recommendation off here/in RL. In the end I went with Nic's suggestion as she was closer to me.

I think most things have been covered, we're 10 weeks in and going pretty well although still a bit variable, lots of running around on hard ground just cos its raining = poorly feet! Although my lovely trimmer did msg me back on the sunday this occurred to advise :).

Frank won't touch brewers yeast.. at all :p and finding the best food/supplement mix is taking a while (I think trying to get the brewers yeast in didn't help and put him off) currently working on fast fibre with added pony nuts (not ideal but if he eats it :p )

I won't know if it has 'worked' or not for some time as I am not upping his work much until we have a whole new hoof to play with really.

As a newbie we got to grips with easyboot gloves pretty quickly.. to the point that I frequently take them off and on again during a hack (only once per hack ;) ).
 
Ester thanks it's nice to hear off others who are or have done through it and what issues you hit along the way. I'm the same where as I'm not bothered about riding until iv got a new hoof to play with but will take for walks etc if it will help simulate the feet. Iv got a giant sand pit for horses which they love. Is that ok to put him in or will the sand get in his White line are give me trouble?
Also as he's been cut back so short, is it best to let some foot grow back before I take his fronts off or just take them off now to release his feet :)
Oberon where are you????
She has posted posts off my horses feet for me before.
 
The great thing about the Copra is most horses find it so yummy that you can hide virtually any supplement in it! Frankie actually quite liked the brewers yeast but I have high levels of things like phosphorous to hide. For an ex racer though I would look either that or yea sacc or protexin as so many come out of racing with gut problems.

With the hi fi unmolassed, some horses have problems with alfalfa some don't, mine never did have a problem but check the bag for what else is in there.
 
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Criso iv found a supplier off copra about 6 miles away from me so ideal. I think topspec topchop lite has no alfalfa in it? So could try that just to give the feed some substance.
 
I think the issue with sand is more if you have deep clefts in the frogs it can work its way in, but otherwise think fine :) we put some pea gravel down as we needed to sort the gateway anyway but it isn't cheap .. and is mostly used for rolling ;)

With Frank we had 6 weeks growth prior to taking shoes off, partly because that's how it just worked out and it was bar shoes on again or not at that point. It certainly did make him more comfortable to start with.. he has little/no concavity in front and once he wore down the walls he did get footy. We have been doing all road work in front boots for the last 6 weeks because his growth has not caught up with the work yet, again he is noticeably more comfortable now than was and I suspect thats because he is loading a bit more periphally again and artificially suspending his front soles a bit.

He does however need to learn that when you stand on a nasty gritty bit with your back foot that hurts standing and waving your leg inthe air is not the solution.. you need to try putting it down in a different spot ;) :rolleyes:
 
Top chop lite is a straw alfalfa mix as well.
You could look at a straight straw chaff if you just want to add bulk and texture but it won't add much if you are aiming for weight gain.
 
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