My horses last chance, barefoot peeps please

I was just about to say that the copra disguises most flavours so they'll eat the supplements. Criso beat me to it lol! With forage I was told to avoid anything containing rye grass. Ideally you need a mixture of grasses in your hay or haylage, turnout on grass overnight not during the day if you can help it and if necessary soak your hay too.

Nic's book Feet First is great for information explaining what and why if you like to know all the ins and outs as I do. Since you're reasonably local to her I'd suggest giving Nic a call to ask about a Farrier or trimmer in the area too. :)
 
Ester you made me laugh what a funny horse.
Criso no it's not for weight looks like I will use coolstance for that but he's not to keen on mash type feed so thinking a chaff to add a bit off texture for him. But most contain molasses or alfalfa
 
bikerchickone said:
I was just about to say that the copra disguises most flavours so they'll eat the supplements. Criso beat me to it lol! With forage I was told to avoid anything containing rye grass. Ideally you need a mixture of grasses in your hay or haylage, turnout on grass overnight not during the day if you can help it and if necessary soak your hay too.

Nic's book Feet First is great for information explaining what and why if you like to know all the ins and outs as I do. Since you're reasonably local to her I'd suggest giving Nic a call to ask about a Farrier or trimmer in the area too. :)
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Can I just say that even if you can not send your horse to Rockley Nic is still more than happy to give great advice;-) she has really helped me and my horse was rehabbed at home. Call Nic and get that trimmer recomendation who can then very much hold your hand and help and advise you on diet, turnout, excercise, etc etc etc etc etc. Tis a bit of a journey but it can be done.

My guy was written off in Holland i.e. "shoot it and claim the insurance" and that was from my Vet!....One year on in the UK with a fantastic Farrier (who really gets barefoot and happily reads Nics blog!), the right feeding and the correct amount of turnout he is back to being a useful boy again, schooling, hacking out and even being used as a school horse for the BHS Stage III students, has a set of wonderful rock crunching hooves and is 100% sound.

Hang on in there! x
 
I just looked up the copra for potential use as a disguise..

F officially does not need a 15 MJ DE/kg DM feed ;) :p he can put up with fast fibre (8 ish) or speedibeet (10ish!) and like it or lump it :p (I bet Dom's a good boy and eats it all ;) )
 
In that case if you want to avoid both alfalfa and molassed then you can get a straight straw chaff, you can also get a chopped hay based chaff or if your horse has no problems with grass then something like readigrass.
 
If he is sore with shoes on, he will probably be sore without. If you take them off you cannot chicken out part way through the transition just as his feet and brain are starting to get used to the change!!!

I would suggest buying boots so you can get him to the field comfortably and accept it is unlikely you will be able to ride for a while.

You need a UKHNCP trimmer to give you advise and support and not to get twitched or turned by other peoples uneducated opinions on barefoot and concerns that you are causing him pain by removing the shoes. Remember what he looks like now, with the shoes.
 
Our lad is barefoot but his hooves went through quite a transformation when his shoes came off (a couple of years ago now). He went from very footie to rock crunching over the course of months but has never looked back, there's a dash of thoroughbred in HIM too so don't give up!

Currently he's on haylege, almost no grass with hard feed consisting of unmolassed speedybeet, Naf haylege balancer, vitamin E, magnesium oxide and lots of rapeseed oil along with a handful of low sugar pony nuts to encourage him to eat it! Not all of that stuff's for his hooves (mostly the mag-ox is but don't quote me).

You might want to give 'cptrayes' a shout she'll no doubt be able to offer much better advice than a novice like me! :)
 
ester said:
I just looked up the copra for potential use as a disguise..

F officially does not need a 15 MJ DE/kg DM feed ;) :p he can put up with fast fibre (8 ish) or speedibeet (10ish!) and like it or lump it :p (I bet Dom's a good boy and eats it all ;) )
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Yes not one for the good doer. In terms of calories, oil and protein it's on a par with linseed. Having said that it fluffs right up and a little goes a long way so I know people feeding it for disguise in tiny quantities.
 
Lol Ester, yes you're right Dom eats his happily without but I still put a handful in to make it taste nice. A little really does go a long way.

I must admit I find it really hard not being able to give Dom his usual treat of ginger biscuits every day after work! I've had to limit him to one a time since Nic told me not to feed him a whole packet and then complain to her that he's footy so be careful what you use as treats too! ;)
 
Hi, sally bell is a trimmer based in bristol, I don't know how far she travels. I have a space on my yard for a foot rehab on full livery. I'll pm u some info. Xx
 
I've got a TB ex-racer too who I've taken barefoot. It's been a long road for us and it's only now that I'm with trimmer no.4 that there is definite light at the end of the tunnel (and it's not the oncoming train!).

My TB was first shod at either 16 or 18mths and has had a pretty hard life from what I've been able to find out of his past (I know most of it now). It's not all barefoot related as we seem to be having a run of very bad luck but he's not been in full ridden work for over a year. As frustrating as it is I know it will benefit him in the long run. I'm as sure as I can be that if I'd carried on with shoes (pulled his 4mths after I got him. If you're bored and look at threads I've posted you'll find one asking how barefoot can cure navicular and the replies on that (and a persistant CPTrayes!) were the catalyst for me buying Pete Ramey books and the rest is history.) he'd have broken down in a very serious way. We were looking good to start full work again but then he punctured his foot on Friday night with a nail picked up in the indoor school.... never rains but it pours!

I'm as far from a BF expert as you can get but I am a horse geek so read everything I can and speak to people who know more than me.

It sounds like you're on the right track having already bought Feet First. I couldn't put it down when I got it either and it's been lent out so many time to others until they realise they can't live without it and have to buy their own copy! I found Feet First lacking in hoof boot info; I know they have their reasons for this and it is discussed on their blog. It did lead me to buy The Barefoot Horse, which is the other side of the coin, and I found this helped balance things out. http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Barefoo...9874/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339313747&sr=8-1 It might be worth a read as it sounds like hoof boots and pads will be required once the shoes come off.

I haven't been able to justify the £150 for Pete Ramey's new book but I've got his first one and read his website. What he has to say really resonated with me and I think very highly of him.

I'm on pretty much the same diet as Bikerchick (I think it was, apologies if wrong) suggested. My TB is generally a good doer and is currently fed:
Speedibeet
Micronized Linseed
Pro Balance +
Yea-Saac
Salt

In the winter he dropped off a bit so I fed Copra/Coolstance. If you don't live near a stockist (I don't) then you can order it online from www.4dobbin.com

As I'm currently on livery I'm restricted on what I can do. I have to feed the haylage provided by the yard and it really varies bale to bale. He can only get turnout during the day. The grazing isn't lush and I have him in a smallish paddock with others but it's pretty far from the barefoot ideal.

It's a difficult balancing act, I think, trying to transition and manage barefoot on livery. You have to really stick to your guns as the amount of times you'll be questioned on your decision and asked why you won't just put shoes back on is unreal. Just don't feel bad if you can't get pea gravel, a field of "old" mixed grazing and have tracks. Most of us don't/can't.

In my limited experience barefoot isn't the easy or cheap option. You have to be pretty dedicated to it when you don't have the ideal set up and there are plenty of ups and downs. Having said all that seeing the huge change it's made to my horse and following the changes and improvements that friends have experienced while transitioning has been a big enough motivation.

Good luck with it and I look forward to following your progress.
 
I currently have had my boy on Fast Fibre plus 15gms of Equimins Laminator and of 15 gms of Feedmark Steady up for five weeks [grass 24/7] and his barefeet are the most rock crunching and concave they have been for 18 months, the Laminator contains Biotin, which he has had before plus Zinc, which may be the missing ingredient, also the Steady up has magnesium and yeast sac which help his spookiness [from grass sugars], I have these in stock as I buy when on special offer, so in the past I have used quite a few things, he still gets some salt and 50gms micronised linseed meal with Laminator and Steady up.
In winter I feed [15.00] per day
Fast fibre a pet scoop when dry
non mollassed sugar beet pulp a pet scoop when dry
non molasssed Dengie chaff, lo alfa, a pet scoop when dry
This makes a nice texture, tasty, and several sources of fibre
100gm micronised linseed meal [more if he is underweight]
To provide minerals
15gm Steady up
15 gms Equimins Advance
10 gms seaweed meal
I will try the Laminator over the winter, I tried it this year as the summer grass is pretty green and plentiful.
In your place I would email Equimins if their Hoof Mender would be the best thing, as you may only need buy one product if feeding Fast Fibre, it lasts six weeks.
I would also feed magnesium.
The best thing is to have horse on a variety of surfaces once unshod, maybe put out in sand pit for a few hours per day. you can use a farriers rasp to take rounds off the hoof wall, which will tend to chip at first, it is not too difficult to do if you do it once a week.
I am sure there is a light at the end of the tunnel, keep your pecker up!
 
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TPO said:
I haven't been able to justify the £150 for Pete Ramey's new book but I've got his first one and read his website. What he has to say really resonated with me and I think very highly of him.
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Me too. I know he states his first book is obsolete but imo it is still a very valuble introduction. I have had sight of his new book and it really is very in depth so aimed more at professionals and of course nerds/geeks. :D

ps. I also cannot imagine the strength you need to be able to cope with the questioning and 'advice' many of you seem to get on liveries. A good professional is invaluable in supporting you here as well I imagine.

Also, I think some hooves are very damaged and immature from shoeing and or poor hoof care and diet it can be a very long road. There is also the trial and error element in finding what suits an individual horse to complicate things further.
 
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I haven't read all the replies but as far as the equimins Advanced concentrate goes I haven't found it is good enough to grow good feet in your type of situation. However the equimins metabalance has been superb for our horses. It has really improved the growth rate. It is not on their website you just ring them to order. All I add to that is magnesium, salt and linseed. I put it into fast fibre or unmolassed beet and a small quantity of soaked spillers hi fibre nuts. These nuts seem to be safe for a lot of barefoot horses. If you don't add too much water it makes a crumbly feed rather than a mash.
Hopefully you realise that your main problem (if you have one) on diet will be grass. The hard feed quantities are minimal compared to the bulk of the diet of soaked hay and grass.

You need to measure for boots once the shoes come off. When choosing a trimmer make sure you look for one with experience of fitting boots who is able to measure your feet and fit them. Otherwise it is worth paying someone to visit and advise and measure for boots. That is far cheaper than buying several different boots that don't fit.

http://www.bluemoonequine.co.uk/?gclid=CND7ib-uw7ACFUIOfAodenmmXA

these people are near Exeter and may be worth looking at.
If you go onto the Phoenix site there are others on there that cover east Devon.
 
Thank you very much TPO I found that very interesting :)
I had a good look at his hooofs this morning and from when he had been barefoot before I can see the growth line quarter off the way down the hoof. Sort off kicking myself that I didn't stick to it but he was just so un comfy. Even now with shoes on he's pulling to walk on the soft grass, what's that about? Unless his heels are hurting as they are bascally on the ground. Vet tomoz so will go from there. :) and also have my normal farrier out
 
I believe the moving to grass is a sign of soreness under the hoof, so sole and or frog. The grass is not stony and it does offer some support for the sole as it is more giving.
 
Just to add to my above post.The coffin bone is above the sole not walls so shoes do not support the weight of the horse bearing down on the hoof (sole/frog) they only support the wall. So thin soles, inflammation etc. can cause discomfort even with shoes.
 
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Wanting to walk on soft grass as opposed to stone/tarmac shows he is really uncomfortable, so I would have him on tlc for ten days, a deep bed and restricted time on grass, walking out as much as he can take, you have to judge it and see how he goes.
If you have a pen with some soft surface outside, this would be best as he can walk about between haynets and lie down when he is resting his feet. An arena and / or a sand pit would do as well, just to relieve boredom.
Overnight on grass once he is more comfortable. you may need Danilon for four days to relieve the pain.
Re boots, you can usually exchange them if they don't fit, just cover feet with clingfilm and same for boot, keep packing intact and do not remove labels.
Obviously this is no use it they subsequently rub or anything, but if you get eg Cavallos, they will at least do for light hacking as long as they fit [don't swivel] Some people put horses out in Cavallos, I don't know, The gaiters are useless, use Boa ones, tubigrip, or even gents socks for the short term.
 
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You've had loads of great advice already, I'll just add; don't underestimate the importance of sufficient salt in the diet - they need a lot more than you might think. Also, from what you've said, I would wait until the end of the shoeing cycle before removing, and be very, very cautious in what you allow to be trimmed off, ever.
 
Thanks guys iv been over welmed by the support out there I'm really touched x
paddy 555 iv e mailed the place in Exeter and will ring them next week as that looks like a great place to start and somebody to trim/fit boots etc.
He has a salt lick in his stable all the time and does use it.
Waiting a while before his shoes come off sounds sensible else he has no foot to play with so I will do this hopefully.
He's a little better this morning when I walked him out his box and has been off grass. Makes me wonder. It's a mine field out there and yes I agree the judgement I will get from taking him barefoot will be hard, iv already got somebody telling me not to be stupid as there's no way he would cope if I took his shoes off. Well he's not coping with shoes on is he?
Mine are in by day at the moment and out by night but I must cut the field size down.
Thing is I have known this lad since he was a yearling in racing as I worked with him so jumped at the chance off having him when he finished racing last year and I can honestly say in racing for 8 yrs on firm ground he's not had 1 day lame so what am I doing wrong? Is the grass having more off a impact than I relise?
Sorry for spelling I'm not v good at all :)
 
I dont know about all the barefoot stuff, however I have tried to get my 36 year old to go shoeless.

We tried twice in the past and he hobbled so much I had them put back on.

Our new farrier wanted to try it but I was unsure. He basically waited for his normal shoeing date, 6 weeks, and pulled the shoes off.

I asked why he wasn't trimming and he said to leave them, if he was trimmed he would be sore.

6 months on and he is now happily going around barefoot.
 
Don't blame yourself tmg. x I expect things are just catching up with him and grass can be a major problem as I've found out about the grass I have here. :(

I second about salt, a lick just isn't enough I'm afraid, you need to add table salt to his feed. A tablespoon for 15hh a day minimum. All mine are fed salt and I provide loose salt as well which all goes every day atm...
 
This is why I need to use somebody different for my lad, last time the shoes were pulled, soles pared and frogs trimmed right up.
 
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