My lame boy :-(
- Thread starter pistolpete
- Start date
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Felt it a bit unfair to just show his X-ray. Yes it’s an obvious lameness no he’s not quite ready to give up yet. Yes he’s hugely fat but when it’s the right time I will let him go. Not quite there yet. His field is flat with calm herd mates. He has masses of grass he’s on daily bute as of today. I just want him to have peace.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
I'm not having a go or disagreeing with you, but I'm interesting in your thoughts and it might help things be clearer in your own head. What are you waiting for? What will you consider the right time?
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
I just don’t want to kill him off if he still has some quality of life. According to the vet he’s had this injury for years. Only in the last year he’s become lame. I will support him with pain relief and monitor his progress really carefully. I guess I see an otherwise healthy looking animal. Enjoying many aspects of his life. I am aware of my responsibility to him. Had my old horse pts last July twisted gut so no choice. I will put him down as soon as I feel it’s the right thing. Just not there yet.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I understand your emotions, PP, I really do, but animals which are programed to be a lion's breakfast hide pain. I know you will feel you know when the time is right, but please bear in mind that you only see him when you are there and he is enjoying being with you. I do agree with you with trying bute. I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this, it's a bummer.
.
.
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Interestingly I can spy on him in his field and he is always eating. True highland! When I’m with him he just sees me as a treat dispenser. He’s not a friendly pony. Never has been so nothing to perk him up in that respect. He’s very complicated!
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Hmmmmm I personally don’t know how to feel about that vid. He’s your horse at the end of the day but I watched Kia being lame on and off for three weeks before I called it a day and that was only because the abscess kept bursting then coming back ? I hated it as he was lame then sound then lame then sound and I couldn’t give him bute as we wanted the abscess to burst and drain. After three weeks of this he had had enough. It was time and he was coming into winter and wasn’t ready for it.
Personally I’d call it for your boy, he’s fat, he’s a lami attack waiting to happen and that pain will be excruciating. I’m all for waiting for the spark to be gone but Kia went from galloping about the Scottish Borders to going to sleep in a short space of time, the spark was gone very quickly and he didn’t suffer long. Waiting for lami or whatever it is you are waiting for seems a bit sad.
Just my thoughts no judgement
Personally I’d call it for your boy, he’s fat, he’s a lami attack waiting to happen and that pain will be excruciating. I’m all for waiting for the spark to be gone but Kia went from galloping about the Scottish Borders to going to sleep in a short space of time, the spark was gone very quickly and he didn’t suffer long. Waiting for lami or whatever it is you are waiting for seems a bit sad.
Just my thoughts no judgement
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
I hear you. I guess. Posting in here helps what I already know. It’s hard.
misst
Well-Known Member
It's very hard and given everything else you have posted familywise that will make it harder - so a hug. No advice, no judgement - honestly - but I left a horse longer than I should once because I was so close I couldn't see what was going on. I do think he's a lami attack in waiting but I also think you know him more than anyone on here. Whatever you do whatever happens you obviously care deeply xxxx
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for that. I really do. It’s a big responsibility having an animal. He’s only 14. It’s so sad.
Apizz2019
Well-Known Member
This is such a hard one, my heart aches for you, it really does.
Making 'that' decision, more so when not an immediate life or death situation, i.e broken leg, serious colic where you don't have time to think, can lead us to make desicions based on our own emotions and how we view the world, not how our horses actually feel.
Never a truer word has been said than 'better a day to soon'.
Making 'that' decision, more so when not an immediate life or death situation, i.e broken leg, serious colic where you don't have time to think, can lead us to make desicions based on our own emotions and how we view the world, not how our horses actually feel.
Never a truer word has been said than 'better a day to soon'.
SO1
Well-Known Member
What does your vet say. Do they think he will be field sound in walk on bute?
joelb
Well-Known Member
So sorry OP, quality of life calls are the hardest to make.
I think the excess weight won't be helping one bit so if I was continuing through winter with pain relief I would be discussing Metformin with my vet to shed some kilos.
I think the excess weight won't be helping one bit so if I was continuing through winter with pain relief I would be discussing Metformin with my vet to shed some kilos.
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Vet hasn’t seen him since the summer. I was giving him bute all the time when first diagnosed and vet said save bute for winter. He’s had the odd sachet here and there but I’m going to give him some daily from now on. Maybe I’ll send video to vet tomorrow. He was last checked in May and vet didn’t think he was too bad at all.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Its hideous to have to decide. Its bad enough when you have no choice, but when you arent sure its just awful, so you have my utmost sympathy.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Mine had a slow deterioration and then suddenly got very lame to the point she had an xray and then as a result of that and her hind end starting to 'go' we had her pts.
She'd been on bute for many years but only low level until the last couple of weeks. It never caused her any issues. I was happy to retire her as a field ornament so long as her pain could be controlled by bute.
I knew when she played up for the vet that she'd reached the end of the line, just wasn't quite prepared to make the decision that day. I don't believe in this 'let them have one last summer' thing. If they are in pain they are still in pain irrespective of what time of year it is.
OP as long as your horse has quality of life then that is okay, if they struggle to get up/down or they stop eating drinking or its evident they are miserable and not thriving then you have to make the decision. Good luck whatever you decide x
She'd been on bute for many years but only low level until the last couple of weeks. It never caused her any issues. I was happy to retire her as a field ornament so long as her pain could be controlled by bute.
I knew when she played up for the vet that she'd reached the end of the line, just wasn't quite prepared to make the decision that day. I don't believe in this 'let them have one last summer' thing. If they are in pain they are still in pain irrespective of what time of year it is.
OP as long as your horse has quality of life then that is okay, if they struggle to get up/down or they stop eating drinking or its evident they are miserable and not thriving then you have to make the decision. Good luck whatever you decide x
DressageCob
Well-Known Member
I don't wish to be overly negative. I lost my horse to a stifle injury in May. He was not as lame as your boy. I had him investigated under GA because we all expected a fairly straightforward repair but what they found was catastrophic. He had normal x-rays, so no bone involvement.
I don't regret the choice I made to investigate because if I had just left him I could have persuaded myself that he was comfortable enough when in fact he was just masking what must have been significant pain.
He was my first horse and I adored him. It was devastating but absolutely the right thing.
If you have Bute I would definitely feed daily for lameness like that, rather than sporadically (although I know that is also difficult when they are on the porkier side - the last thing you want to do is add to the waistline!). If that makes him pain-free, great. But I'm afraid otherwise I'd be calling time. Sorry.
I don't regret the choice I made to investigate because if I had just left him I could have persuaded myself that he was comfortable enough when in fact he was just masking what must have been significant pain.
He was my first horse and I adored him. It was devastating but absolutely the right thing.
If you have Bute I would definitely feed daily for lameness like that, rather than sporadically (although I know that is also difficult when they are on the porkier side - the last thing you want to do is add to the waistline!). If that makes him pain-free, great. But I'm afraid otherwise I'd be calling time. Sorry.
holeymoley
Well-Known Member
What do his xrays show? Can you change his management? If you can and are willing to(I don't mean that to sound as bad as it is, more so if there are aspects out of your control that you can't change) then I would give him a chance.
Equi
Well-Known Member
I had to go check the X-ray post first not that I’m in anyway medical but I did have a “oooo….” at the xray. It’s not good. I know it’s very hard to decide to end the life of an otherwise healthy looking animal but sometimes the waiting for it to happen is worse than just getting it over with (and I really don’t mean that in an insensitive way)
I’m sorry you’ll have to go through this. Have a big internet hug.
I’m sorry you’ll have to go through this. Have a big internet hug.
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Bone fragments and arthritis. He’s been pretty good up until now. It’s just the beginning of the end I think.
HelenBack
Well-Known Member
I'm so sorry you're struggling with this decision. I think before you decide is it worth asking your vet to come back and have a look and have a lengthy discussion with them about quality of life and when might be the right time? Whatever anybody on here says you have to be sure that it's the right decision for you and him, otherwise you will always doubt yourself.
SEL
Well-Known Member
I was expecting him to look worse from the X ray. Does he roll? Get up and down ok?
MissTyc
Well-Known Member
You can buy some time with the daily bute, and I think that's OK, but do keep an eye out for lami 
. Much sympathy to you. It's never easy and always worse if they're not old "enough" and you thought you were going to have a lot longer together.
My beloved big mare had early onset arthritis - she was on and off bute for a few years but always happy and bouncy. Then one day she wasn't happy working any more so retired to the field. Then not even 9 months after that we had to call it. She was just shy of 18, so a bit older than your boy but also too young and it broke my heart. I never regretted the decision, however. I realised, later, that I'd got used to seeing her being "not quite comfortable". That's on me - it's just so hard when you're right up close to them, physically and emotionally.
. Much sympathy to you. It's never easy and always worse if they're not old "enough" and you thought you were going to have a lot longer together. My beloved big mare had early onset arthritis - she was on and off bute for a few years but always happy and bouncy. Then one day she wasn't happy working any more so retired to the field. Then not even 9 months after that we had to call it. She was just shy of 18, so a bit older than your boy but also too young and it broke my heart. I never regretted the decision, however. I realised, later, that I'd got used to seeing her being "not quite comfortable". That's on me - it's just so hard when you're right up close to them, physically and emotionally.
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Yes he does. Always has mud everywhere! Does get brushed too so know it’s recent. His X-ray is horrific but he canters about!
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I also thought the same as this I don't think he looks awful tbh, I would see how he goes on the bute for a bit and the field looks pretty flat and dry at the moment so that is ideal.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
This just goes to show how different people are, doesn't it? Personally, I find it incredibly painful and difficult to continue to care for an animal which I know is on borrowed time. I also believe that between the two of us, the only one who really cares about having more days/weeks/months is me, not the horse (or cat).
If it makes you happy to keep him ticking over on bute PP, you should do it. If others make the decision earlier because the only thing that's in doubt is the date, not the outcome, then that's fair too.
I hope you and Pete have some happy time together.
.
If it makes you happy to keep him ticking over on bute PP, you should do it. If others make the decision earlier because the only thing that's in doubt is the date, not the outcome, then that's fair too.
I hope you and Pete have some happy time together.
.
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
He’s called Quin. Darling Pete went to heaven last July. Thank you though. I just don’t want to rob him. Equally it’s an uncomfortable journey.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Thanks no worries. He’s hard to love! Not a friendly cuddly pony at all but my responsibility and I care for him deeply. He knows I’m his provider and I never want to let him down.
Boulty
Well-Known Member
Big hugs mate xxx
Will be honest & say that I have had a horse PTS due to a similar level of chronic lameness due to (hock) arthritis BUT that horse was that lame having had joint injections a few months prior (as a last thing to try) plus being on 2 bute daily (for an approx 430kg pony) & a joint supplement. Said horse also struggled lifting his back feet to have them picked out (nvm for trimming etc), looked even lamer in trot & seemed no longer able to canter more than a few strides / wasn't able to join in playing with his fieldmates. This was also during a period of really bad snow & he was also dropping weight. (& of course you know about the Welsh one & why I let him go when he didn't look "that" bad on a good day)
If he's still charging around the field, able to socialise & play with his mates & generally do horse things with little difficulty & you feel he's still got a decent QOL then it may not be time quite yet but unfortunately that decision may be getting closer.
Would definitely see if you can have the vet back out if they haven't seen him for a while, esp if you feel that he's gotten worse since the wetter / colder weather. If you're literally just trying to keep him comfy in retirement then would discuss whether he can just have daily bute from here on in (I used to start at a high dose & taper down initially with the arthritic one I used to have & then towards the end he just stayed on the high dose all the time... he was on daily bute for about 4 or 5 years with no ill effects) / any other options such as acupuncture that might help & see if he improves. (Sadly you may end up with some sad decisions to make if he doesn't improve at all though). Would also talk to vet about what can / can't be given alongside bute as I think that some herbal things are too similar in how their active compound works to be totally safe to give alongside & some are fine. (I think boswelia is ok but don't think devils claw is)
Will be honest & say that I have had a horse PTS due to a similar level of chronic lameness due to (hock) arthritis BUT that horse was that lame having had joint injections a few months prior (as a last thing to try) plus being on 2 bute daily (for an approx 430kg pony) & a joint supplement. Said horse also struggled lifting his back feet to have them picked out (nvm for trimming etc), looked even lamer in trot & seemed no longer able to canter more than a few strides / wasn't able to join in playing with his fieldmates. This was also during a period of really bad snow & he was also dropping weight. (& of course you know about the Welsh one & why I let him go when he didn't look "that" bad on a good day)
If he's still charging around the field, able to socialise & play with his mates & generally do horse things with little difficulty & you feel he's still got a decent QOL then it may not be time quite yet but unfortunately that decision may be getting closer.
Would definitely see if you can have the vet back out if they haven't seen him for a while, esp if you feel that he's gotten worse since the wetter / colder weather. If you're literally just trying to keep him comfy in retirement then would discuss whether he can just have daily bute from here on in (I used to start at a high dose & taper down initially with the arthritic one I used to have & then towards the end he just stayed on the high dose all the time... he was on daily bute for about 4 or 5 years with no ill effects) / any other options such as acupuncture that might help & see if he improves. (Sadly you may end up with some sad decisions to make if he doesn't improve at all though). Would also talk to vet about what can / can't be given alongside bute as I think that some herbal things are too similar in how their active compound works to be totally safe to give alongside & some are fine. (I think boswelia is ok but don't think devils claw is)