My teenager wants to offer horse care service - some questions for you all

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She's just left school and she has her BHS Stage 1. The ideal would be a few regular customers spread across the week but holiday cover is an option too of course.

Firstly, insurance. What does she need? Public liability of course but I'm also thinking professional indemnity? What if, god forbid, someone's horse injures itself or colics and the owner blames her?

Secondly, do you use this kind of service yourself and if so what do you pay? I've seen people advertising by the job, ie £5 to feed, £10 to poo pick etc. and I figured it out once that on that basis holiday cover for our horses would be upwards of £50 a day! Would it be better to charge per visit, with a visit including x, y, z? If so, what would you say is reasonable?

Thanks in advance for any insight!
 
In the politest way possible, I'm not sure how many people would pay for a freelance service provided by an under 18 with only their stage 1 tbh. Would she have the experience to deal with various injuries/serious health conditions, can she get to remote places at random times under her own steam, and most importantly - assuming she's way under 21, minimum wage is a lot lower. Also with my super cynical hat on, would you be happy with her being alone on a remote yard from a safeguarding and/or safety point of view? I'd be surprised if you'd get insurance for an under 18 too.

Is there anywhere she could work locally to gain her experience and earn a wage before going out freelance?
 
I use freelancers to help care for my three mares. In my experience grooms insurance for handling other people’s horses doesn’t kick in until 18 years old. The minimum I pay is for an hour, even if the task takes only 35 minutes. Anytime after the hour is charged in 15 minutes blocks. Depending on who I use it can be £12, £15 or £20/ per hour.
 
teapot said:
In the politest way possible, I'm not sure how many people would pay for a freelance service provided by an under 18 with only their stage 1 tbh. Would she have the experience to deal with various injuries/serious health conditions, can she get to remote places at random times under her own steam, and most importantly - assuming she's way under 21, minimum wage is a lot lower. Also with my super cynical hat on, would you be happy with her being alone on a remote yard from a safeguarding and/or safety point of view? I'd be surprised if you'd get insurance for an under 18 too.

Is there anywhere she could work locally to gain her experience and earn a wage before going out freelance?
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** I have, when I could find one.

I think it depends what else there is and the culture in the area. Here there is next to nothing and I know there are people who need it. Also around here they are working in stables from around 13, something she has done too. She would not be on her own.
 
bonnysmum said:
I think it depends what else there is and the culture in the area. Here there is next to nothing and I know there are people who need it. Also around here they are working in stables from around 13, something she has done too. She would not be on her own.
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Working in stables aged 13 is very different to offering a fully fledged freelance groom service for privately owned horses though...
 
teapot said:
Working in stables aged 13 is very different to offering a fully fledged freelance groom service for privately owned horses though...
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Poo picking, making up feeds, mucking out, basic welfare checks. Hardly a fully fledged groom service! But fine I get it, you have access to highly qualified staff when you need them. Lots of people up here don't and have to be totally self reliant.

Also the nearest large place that employs staff (but freelance) is a 70 mile round trip away.
 
bonnysmum said:
Poo picking, making up feeds, mucking out, basic welfare checks. Hardly a fully fledged groom service! But fine I get it, you have access to highly qualified staff when you need them. Lots of people up here don't and have to be totally self reliant.

Also the nearest large place that employs staff is a 70 mile round trip away.
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It's actually not about access to well qualified staff, instead the reality of employing someone under 18 on a freelancer basis. If people jump at the that service then great, but I wouldn't be surrpised if they didn't.
 
teapot said:
It's actually not about access to well qualified staff, instead the reality of employing someone under 18 on a freelancer basis. If people jump at the that service then great, but I wouldn't be surrpised if they didn't.
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I think beggars can't always be choosers, and she can provide great references. I am going to find out about insurance. But thanks for your input 😊
 
bonnysmum said:
I think beggars can't always be choosers, and she can provide great references. I am going to find out about insurance. But thanks for your input 😊
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PS she has come up with this on her own and I'm trying to encourage and support her by helping her research. If she has to wait til she's 18 then fine, it's not that long, but I applaud her for wanting to take the initiative.
 
ihatework said:
I’m afraid I wouldn’t use an U18 with only a BHS stage 1 in charge of my horses in a freelance capacity.

Which isn’t to say she won’t get freelance work, but it’s more likely to be a paid ph type situation, grooming under supervision
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I feel that some people are coming at this from the point of view of owning stabled competition horses, whereas we have a lot of horses around here who are retired field ornaments. I think maybe we're talking/thinking at cross purposes. Probably wasn't the right place to ask.
 
bonnysmum said:
I feel that some people are coming at this from the point of view of owning stabled competition horses, whereas we have a lot of horses around here who are retired field ornaments. I think maybe we're talking/thinking at cross purposes. Probably wasn't the right place to ask.
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I came at it from using a freelancer to cover the odd day I need my field babies checked, fed and shelter skipped.

I need someone that knows what to do and can deal with stuff if there was an issue. The basics of what they actually do is a doddle. Until it isn’t.
 
ihatework said:
I came at it from using a freelancer to cover the odd day I need my field babies checked, fed and shelter skipped.

I need someone that knows what to do and can deal with stuff if there was an issue. The basics of what they actually do is a doddle. Until it isn’t.
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OK fair enough, I don't think her age is the main issue then (insurance aside). She clearly needs to get her next BHS stage which is useful feedback.
 
Having had a variety of freelance grooms before, the main issue for me was reliability - quite a few didn’t turn up or had regular car trouble, etc. For a very easy yard of horses kept at grass I would consider an U18 if they would be reliable and mature enough to cope if, for example, horses had broken a fence and were in the wrong place. I wouldn’t expect them to fix the fencing or whatever, but would expect that they make sure everything is safe and let me know. If she can do this and as you say a lot of the horses around you are older and easy to look after then it’s worth a go. Good luck to her.
 
Abacus said:
Having had a variety of freelance grooms before, the main issue for me was reliability - quite a few didn’t turn up or had regular car trouble, etc. For a very easy yard of horses kept at grass I would consider an U18 if they would be reliable and mature enough to cope if, for example, horses had broken a fence and were in the wrong place. I wouldn’t expect them to fix the fencing or whatever, but would expect that they make sure everything is safe and let me know. If she can do this and as you say a lot of the horses around you are older and easy to look after then it’s worth a go. Good luck to her.
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Thank you 🙏
 
bonnysmum said:
** I have, when I could find one.

I think it depends what else there is and the culture in the area. Here there is next to nothing and I know there are people who need it. Also around here they are working in stables from around 13, something she has done too. She would not be on her own.
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Hi there , which area are you in ? Is it in the UK ?
 
It can be a very simple job and a 16 year old being quite capable of doing it. I am sure that some people would be very willing to employ her to help with various tasks. But if she is thinking about holiday cover, she will need more experience as from an owner's point of view it is knowing enough if things turn out to be not so straightforward. Horses not eating, no droppings to be picked up, etc. All this would come from experience. I agree with those who would be worried about a teenager going out to a remote place by herself, especially if she didn't have her own transport.

But, in the meantime encourage her to help out as much as possible.
 
bonnysmum said:
OK fair enough, I don't think her age is the main issue then (insurance aside). She clearly needs to get her next BHS stage which is useful feedback.
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Actually, I’m not that bothered about BHS stages, or even age to some extent. It’s about real world experience outside of a riding school setting.

I would honestly suggest she finds a bigger commercial, non-RS yard and work on an hourly rate. Prob NMW. She will probably just be poo-picking, mucking out, tack cleaning. But if she is keen and reliable the opportunity for more will come. She needs to watch and learn how to deal with the weird and wonderful things horses throw our way.
 
ihatework said:
Actually, I’m not that bothered about BHS stages, or even age to some extent. It’s about real world experience outside of a riding school setting.

I would honestly suggest she finds a bigger commercial, non-RS yard and work on an hourly rate. Prob NMW. She will probably just be poo-picking, mucking out, tack cleaning. But if she is keen and reliable the opportunity for more will come. She needs to watch and learn how to deal with the weird and wonderful things horses throw our way.
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She does have pretty much sole care of her own two horses. Didn't think to say that, I assumed it would obvious she does have experience. And the problem is those bigger commercial yards do not exist here within commutable distance.
 
ihatework said:
I would honestly suggest she finds a bigger commercial, non-RS yard and work on an hourly rate. Prob NMW. She will probably just be poo-picking, mucking out, tack cleaning. But if she is keen and reliable the opportunity for more will come. She needs to watch and learn how to deal with the weird and wonderful things horses throw our way.
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This 1000%. If she’s as hardworking as she sounds she’ll have no trouble and will have her pick of yards, also cuts down her Dad’s travel time if she has set hours.

I’ve known plenty of 16 year olds who are incredibly reliable and knowledgeable in their horse care, and I commend your daughter’s work ethic for coming up with this herself. My worry for employing any 16 year old I would be that they have just finished school, have they got the “real life skills” to work unsupervised, in a potentially dangerous environment (she may well do, but for me it wouldn’t be worth the risk or guilt for me if something happened).
 
We alternate our horses between home and livery, depending on who is doing what and what facilities they need. Horses at home would be young horses, old horses, or horses who need a break. So it's not a competition set up or even a terribly formally run yard.

When we have had under 18 helpers here before, I have asked that their parents take responsibility for them. I suggest that the parents stay and supervise their child. If they decide not to stay because they feel their child is capable, then that is entirety their own choice. I make it very clear that I am not going to be there, I will not be supervising and cannot be responsible for them. One mum used to use the time to walk her dog on the farm which was a nice balance of freedom for her daughter and me feeling that the 16yo had someone on hand nearby if there was any issue.

I wouldn't allow under 18s to handle the horses at all, regardless of whether they own their own. If something awful happens and I've asked a minor to handle one of my horses unsupervised, the liability is going to be very complex.

The chores I have offered previously have been things like cleaning buckets, organising the tack and feed rooms, cleaning tack, sweeping the yard, pulling ragwort or poo picking in fields that horses are not in.

If anyone is handling the horses, I feel I have to be to be sure that if something went badly wrong, I could have reasonably expected the handler to have sufficient experience, confidence and insurance to handle a complex situation.

For example, I think it would be difficult to defend expecting an unsupervised 16yo to be able to handle a panicking horse who has got its back legs stuck in a gate. So, by that logic, I wouldn't personally ask an unsupervised 16yo to lead a horse through a gate at all. Accidents happen and I have to know the people who handle my horses are equipped for a worst case scenario.

Perhaps if a YO was physically present all the time so could supervise or has a lot of other staff so could provide a supervisor, it might be easier. But insurance is still complex. I'd probably want to do that out of a properly insured company rather than as an individual who was hiring freelance self-insured workers.

Like ihw, real world experience is more important to me than exams. I have interviewed and trialed a few freelancers who had qualifications up to degrees in equine management but very little practical experience or on the ground skills.
 
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