My teenager wants to offer horse care service - some questions for you all

[paddy555]

Most owners of private horses kept at home and who are only looking for occasional holiday care will not have their own public liability insurance covering people working for them.

Like many I have BHS Gold membership, and their full third party cover, but that does not cover people who are paid to handle my horses, it is for non paid people handling them with my permission. The freelancer is the one who needs to pro quality cover.

that is a very good point in general and I suspect some would fall short, unknowingly, on that point. I have this (and the working for them bit) on my house ins. but many may not if they are paying teenagers for help. Some may assume the likes of BHS/WHW type insurance covers this and it may not.

 

[[154267]]

this is what you asked in your OP


She's just left school and she has her BHS Stage 1. The ideal would be a few regular customers spread across the week but holiday cover is an option too of course.

Firstly, insurance. What does she need? Public liability of course but I'm also thinking professional indemnity? What if, god forbid, someone's horse injures itself or colics and the owner blames her?

Secondly, do you use this kind of service yourself

that is what was answered. As we went along the story became very different.

Well you did of course miss out the paragraph in the middle where I mentioned specific examples of jobs (poo-picking, making up feeds). But yes I've learned that it is necessary to be extremely specific otherwise people make wild assumptions.

 

[paddy555]

Well you did of course miss out the paragraph in the middle where I mentioned specific examples of jobs (poo-picking, making up feeds). But yes I've learned that it is necessary to be extremely specific otherwise people make wild assumptions.

for completeness I have put the middle bit below. Not sure of it's relevance as it asked for charging rates for various tasks which is why I omitted it. You asked about horse care services in your title. No wild assumptions from me. Horse care is looking after a horse when the owner is away/can't/doesn't wish to especially holiday cover.

I've seen people advertising by the job, ie £5 to feed, £10 to poo pick etc. and I figured it out once that on that basis holiday cover for our horses would be upwards of £50 a day! Would it be better to charge per visit, with a visit including x, y, z? If so, what would you say is reasonable?

 

[Annagain]

I don't dispute your logic at all, but having got some info I'm now interested in some of the general points raised in this thread.

In particular I wonder if placing such emphasis (in England) on kids staying in education until they're at least 18 is altering societal perceptions. As someone mentioned above, by law 16 year olds can drive a tractor on the roads among many other things. They aren't babies and I'm not sure it does them any favours to treat them as such. (And in my experience teenagers who are daft at 16 are still equally daft at 18, probably because no one will let them grow up!)

I'm in Wales, school leaving age is still 16 here.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I'm in Wales, school leaving age is still 16 here.

In England, you can leave school the day of the last Friday in June of the school year you turn 16, but you must then continue in education, training, or employment with training until you're 18. Options for this include full-time education at a college or an apprenticeship.

My friend's son is 16 and has left school and now goes to Agricultural College.

 

[Fred66]

The issues around formally employing an under 18 are not straightforward but especially as a freelance, the duty of care and the times that they are allowed to work are quite restrictive.

Getting insurance could be difficult as an under 18 cannot enter into a legally binding contract in their own right.

Then you look at the level of proof of ability (BHS1) and it would not give me the confidence to allow someone to help unsupervised. Unless I knew them personally or they came recommended by someone I knew.

BHS are progressive tests and a quick google shows that BHS1 is on a par to Pony Club D+. Without meaning to be rude the recommended age for being able to pass D+ is 10. Now whilst I would obviously expect more common sense and ability to apply knowledge learnt from someone of your daughters age than a 10 year old I would not be willing to leave them in charge of my horses.

Her best option would be to look for yards that have multiple horses and look to work for a single employer where there would be people she could learn from.

Try the Yard and Groom website, local hunts, local race yards or riding schools etc. It would also make it easier for yourselves as running her to and from different locations every few hours would be time consuming

 

[Annagain]

In England, you can leave school the day of the last Friday in June of the school year you turn 16, but you must then continue in education, training, or employment with training until you're 18. Options for this include full-time education at a college or an apprenticeship.

My friend's son is 16 and has left school and now goes to Agricultural College.

Yes, the requirement to stay in some sort of education or training doesn't exist here but it's very strongly encouraged and supported. I just wanted to make the point that it wasn't a factor in my opinion like OP suggested

 

[[154267]]

The issues around formally employing an under 18 are not straightforward but especially as a freelance, the duty of care and the times that they are allowed to work are quite restrictive.

Getting insurance could be difficult as an under 18 cannot enter into a legally binding contract in their own right.

Then you look at the level of proof of ability (BHS1) and it would not give me the confidence to allow someone to help unsupervised. Unless I knew them personally or they came recommended by someone I knew.

BHS are progressive tests and a quick google shows that BHS1 is on a par to Pony Club D+. Without meaning to be rude the recommended age for being able to pass D+ is 10. Now whilst I would obviously expect more common sense and ability to apply knowledge learnt from someone of your daughters age than a 10 year old I would not be willing to leave them in charge of my horses.

Her best option would be to look for yards that have multiple horses and look to work for a single employer where there would be people she could learn from.

Try the Yard and Groom website, local hunts, local race yards or riding schools etc. It would also make it easier for yourselves as running her to and from different locations every few hours would be time consuming

Thank you but if you had read the thread you would know we don't have "local hunts" or "local race yards" and the "local riding schools" (which are very far from being local) employ children who aren't even in their teens as yard staff and do not have safe working conditions. She has volunteered at two of them in the past.

Thanks for the opinion on BHS Stage 1, it is noted. Again if you had read the thread you might understand a bit more about the situation. There is a minimum age for Stage 2 Care incidentally, which she does now meet but she has no wish to take it. Regardless, other posters have said exams are useless so...

Insurance is available from the age of 16. I pity teenagers these days with the low opinion most people seem to hold of them.

If and when she decides she wants a career in the equine industry (god forbid) she will seek formal training for which she will need to move away from home. Right now she wants to earn a bit of money, just like generations of teenagers before her.

 

[Fred66]

Thank you but if you had read the thread you would know we don't have "local hunts" or "local race yards" and the local riding schools (which are very far from being local) employ children who aren't even in their teens as yard staff and do not have safe working conditions.

Thanks for the opinion on BHS Stage 1, it is noted. Again if you had read the thread you might understand a bit more about the situation.

I have read the thread, and ultimately I think that whilst your daughters aspirational work ethic is admirable that it is unlikely that she will find work with reputable employers.

That if the area is remote as you imply then subject to her finding work then transporting her between work venues will be difficult. If I am honest I think the whole idea is fraught with risk and that you are looking for opinions that support your concept rather than ones that point out the pitfalls.

Good luck in your search and I wish your daughter well.

 

[[154267]]

I have read the thread, and ultimately I think that whilst your daughters aspirational work ethic is admirable that it is unlikely that she will find work with reputable employers.

That if the area is remote as you imply then subject to her finding work then transporting her between work venues will be difficult. If I am honest I think the whole idea is fraught with risk and that you are looking for opinions that support your concept rather than ones that point out the pitfalls.

Good luck in your search and I wish your daughter well.

Actually I was looking for information. I know my local area so can assess the practicalities myself. But along the way I received a lot of opinions that made me realise I don't want her working for anyone who doesn't think a 16 year old is worthy of some basic respect. It is her concept, not mine, and we will talk about it. Thanks again.

 

[Tiddlypom]

No one on here has suggested that a 16yo is not worthy of basic respect .

However, if she goes out as a 16yo, perhaps without direct supervision by a mentor, and is working on other people’s yards, she might well come across people who will not respect her. It shouldn’t happen, but it does.

FWIW I did employ a local 6th former for basic holiday cover, and then all through her uni days. She was known to me, though. It was a devil of a job get her to send me the two simple text messages a day that I requested to confirm ‘Horses done, all well’. I often had to chase her.

 

[I'm Dun]

I worked as instructor and have trained countless young people up. I cannot think of a single one I would leave alone caring for my horses. Not one. And some were very good competent kids, some were bloody awful! All needed various degrees of supervision and guidance. But as I said previously, you want a nice horse owner who wants someone to do the donkey work while they ride etc. Then your daughter gets a paying job but has the benefit of back up. I'm sure you will find people if your in a horsey area. Everyone has jobs they dont like doing and some people wil happily pay a small amount to have someone else do them. Once she has one client and proves herself then there will be more opportunities. But I am 99% sure that insurance will be a huge issue. We had to jump through hoops to employ under 18s and they came via a training scheme. i imagine its even harder to do it solo.

 

[[154267]]

I kno

I worked as instructor and have trained countless young people up. I cannot think of a single one I would leave alone caring for my horses. Not one. And some were very good competent kids, some were bloody awful! All needed various degrees of supervision and guidance. But as I said previously, you want a nice horse owner who wants someone to do the donkey work while they ride etc. Then your daughter gets a paying job but has the benefit of back up. I'm sure you will find people if your in a horsey area. Everyone has jobs they dont like doing and some people wil happily pay a small amount to have someone else do them. Once she has one client and proves herself then there will be more opportunities. But I am 99% sure that insurance will be a huge issue. We had to jump through hoops to employ under 18s and they came via a training scheme. i imagine its even harder to do it solo.

I know you said that and I agreed, but it was then suggested by others that it would be an imposition. Basically she can't win and certainly there's nothing I can say here to prevent my every word being twisted out of shape by somebody. Until Admin deals with my account issue I feel the need to keep coming back to correct the latest sweeping statement, or repeat what I've already said.

As I said I've pretty much decided now that I'm not going to allow her to do this. There are too many risks (and I don't mean from the horses).

 

[JenJ]

I think the OP is a troll. Don't feed the troll peeps.

She's not a troll.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

A bit surprised reading this thread
When I was 14-17 I did "petsitting" locally but ended up being asked to do everything from strapping 16.2 Irish hunters to garden chickens, gerbils, koi ponds, a little herd of zwartble sheep, obviously the usual cats, just through word of mouth basically. But this was in tiny villages where everyone knows everyone - and the field we rent for ours is parallel to a public bridle way so people had seen me with them. I didn't dog walk, because I thought that needed insurance, but I did do everything for the horses bar exercising and did have (which people knew) experience. It wasn't that long ago, but now I'm surprised it was allowed to happen at all. Not everyone was honest about their animals and I walked everywhere, excepting the odd occasion my parents were driving very close by at the same time. The money made would have been very, very quickly swallowed by petrol costs, insurance etc if I'd been doing things 'properly' in the way a professional/someone touting themself as a business would need to. I did always make sure I had at least one, but preferably two, contact numbers for the owners though, and the details of their preferred vet. If I'm honest I enjoyed it because it made me feel independent and accomplished, and animals are always good company. Some of the situations with horses maybe were a bit risky thinking back, though, the main issue for me was I'd look after a new animal and be really sad when the owners came home and I couldn't see them anymore (it's the whole reason I want pet sheep and led to me keeping fish!) I've never done pony club or BHS tests of any level and don't hold any practical animal related qualifications, but do have GCSEs and A levels. (Istopped when the second year of A levels began, then that was curtailed by the first lockdowns/COVID).

Sorry, OP, this doesn't help your daughter much, it's more thinking aloud. She'd probably do well to look at apprenticeships at local colleges, where she can get hands on experience with guidance, or even some online certificates (they're often styled as cpd but often surprisingly simplistic) to do to see if animal care really is a sector age wants to go into. They can be done part time, and will have established safety nets should she, or any of the probably numerous, other neurodivergent students they will have enrolled, struggle.
And fwiw, don't think op is a troll. Just concerned about the future of their child that's struggled in 'traditional' routes which is totally valid. But the good news is it's still totally possible for an individual to build a happy and productive life for themselves without going the usual school exams, university etc routes, it's just a matter of figuring out the path there that will work best for them which can take a bit of trial and error.

Aware my opinion is probably totally irrelevant but there is is anyway

 

[IrishMilo]

Hats off to your daughter. Some of the things people expect of freelancers on here are bonkers. Sounds like some people want a handyman, a security guard, a groom and a communications officer all for £12 an hour!

I would happily pay someone like your daughter to feed, poo pick, bring in, etc. Some of the most useless and awful owners I know are adults with decades of “experience”…

 

[paddy555]

Hats off to your daughter. Some of the things people expect of freelancers on here are bonkers. Sounds like some people want a handyman, a security guard, a groom and a communications officer all for £12 an hour!

I would happily pay someone like your daughter to feed, poo pick, bring in, etc. Some of the most useless and awful owners I know are adults with decades of “experience”…

I think if you were having a freelancer to cover whilst you were on holiday you would be expecting someone who could cope with a broken rail either a temporary fix or get the owner to send someone who could if it was important and you would expect to update the owner of problems or that all was well. i would obviously expect to be paying more that £12 an hour. There was nothing at the beginning of this to tell us this was a 15yo who wanted to earn money poo picking etc rather than someone providing horse care ie cover for and taking responsibility when the owner was away. .

 

[spookypony]

I think there are three separate types of consideration here, that would affect if I'd think about paying a 16yo to do any type of looking after horses/horsey chores.

First, entirely separate from the teen and her competence/my level of trust, is the question of legal liability and insurance. No matter my personal opinions of the teen, I'd want to be sure that was covered, and I think rules in the UK are probably quite strict about this (never having employed a teen, I don't really know).

Second would be my assessment of the fairness of the proposed tasks. Mixing some feeds, poo picking, etc. should be fine for a reasonable teen to do, but is there a safety network in case something goes wrong? I'd be more inclined to do this at a yard where there is a YM or other trusted adults, than a place with potential difficulties contacting someone. Even if the teen were very level-headed and potentially capable of dealing with a crisis, I don't think it would be fair to put her such in a situation. At 13, my instructor put me "in charge" of the yard (which included large, private WBs) for an afternoon, and I was monstrously chuffed and ran around unnecessarily topping up water buckets, but I had strict instructions to phone if anything looked unusual, and the horses really didn't need that much supervision just eating their hay nets for a few hours...

Third would be my knowledge of the teen herself. I've known teens that I think would be absolutely fine to cope with my horses, that would follow instructions, and that would recognise a problem and know when to ask for help. But I know them personally.

So, at a livery yard with other adults on-site, would I pay a known, sensible teen a tenner to feed my horses or change rugs for a few days? Yes, probably, if local laws allowed it/it was defensible from an insurance point of view. I might also do that at the small private yard I used to rent, where the owners lived on-site and would also keep an eye out. I wouldn't do that, if it were a property where the teen would be alone.

 

[Tiddlypom]

OP has been granted her wish to have her account deactivated.

Holiday livery, if the person is left in sole charge of the premises when working, IS a much more responsible job than working a few jobs on a yard with company. It should be rewarded accordingly and only suits a few individuals who can be trusted to get on with it and when to know that something is wrong, and what to do about it.

My teen was told to always phone in if in doubt, I was never more than a few hours drive away and would have driven straight back to sort out a major issue. Less easy if owners abroad…