Cloball
Well-Known Member
They're both absolutely gorgeous what a pair!
Mylo & Myka
- Thread starter Ample Prosecco
- Start date
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Well I have had Myka for exactly 5 weeks and am slowly getting to know her better.
* She is clever. Really, REALLY clever. I can't believe how quickly she picks things up.
* She has a huge amount of curiosity. Her reaction to anything new is to go and explore it: she paws, sniffs, chews, knocks over, & plays with pretty much any novel item you care to show her.
* She is very sharp and sensitive. And when she reacts she can be quite explosive. She goes up and leaps around. However she also comes back to earth quite quickly and re-focuses.
* She is affectionate and seeks connection with horses and people. She loves company (equine and human) and also seeks reassurance from me at times, which feels nice.
* She is very athletic.
I really don't know if I should be the one to back her. I'll ask Joe, but I think if she went there for a few weeks, she would have a better experience, would get further along more quickly, she'd have a more solid foundation, and it would be a lot safer as I really would not last 2 seconds if she got spooked while I was up there. Not necessarily because of anything I am doing, as I can prepare her for every step - but just because she reacts to stuff outside the arena.
Today a farmer and some other men on the road below the arena arrived to move sheep from a field and it was quite noisy - sheep baa-ing, dogs barking, horns beeping, men shouting. She was pretty reactive to all of that which was fine on the ground. But she lives on a busy, working farm with lots going on. I can't trigger proof the world for her, and although I can choose quiet times of day, it's never truly quiet or peaceful.
* She is clever. Really, REALLY clever. I can't believe how quickly she picks things up.
* She has a huge amount of curiosity. Her reaction to anything new is to go and explore it: she paws, sniffs, chews, knocks over, & plays with pretty much any novel item you care to show her.
* She is very sharp and sensitive. And when she reacts she can be quite explosive. She goes up and leaps around. However she also comes back to earth quite quickly and re-focuses.
* She is affectionate and seeks connection with horses and people. She loves company (equine and human) and also seeks reassurance from me at times, which feels nice.
* She is very athletic.
I really don't know if I should be the one to back her. I'll ask Joe, but I think if she went there for a few weeks, she would have a better experience, would get further along more quickly, she'd have a more solid foundation, and it would be a lot safer as I really would not last 2 seconds if she got spooked while I was up there. Not necessarily because of anything I am doing, as I can prepare her for every step - but just because she reacts to stuff outside the arena.
Today a farmer and some other men on the road below the arena arrived to move sheep from a field and it was quite noisy - sheep baa-ing, dogs barking, horns beeping, men shouting. She was pretty reactive to all of that which was fine on the ground. But she lives on a busy, working farm with lots going on. I can't trigger proof the world for her, and although I can choose quiet times of day, it's never truly quiet or peaceful.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
She’s lovely, but I think that it would be wise to get her backed by a pro, in this case Joe or someone he recommends. It can really frighten a baby if their rider gets unseated, and you don’t want that to happen.
Does Joe take in horses for backing?
Does Joe take in horses for backing?
millitiger
Well-Known Member
If you aren't 100% confident, definitely get someone else to back her.
It isn't a failure, 9/10 people don't back their own horses and you really need to be able to be secure and give them confidence, whatever happens.
You also need a super person on the floor which is usually underestimated.
It isn't a failure, 9/10 people don't back their own horses and you really need to be able to be secure and give them confidence, whatever happens.
You also need a super person on the floor which is usually underestimated.
TPO
Well-Known Member
He takes in a limited number now that he has a base again. I'm very jealous AE!
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
I definitely would not see it as a failure. It's just I think there is something quite special about doing it all yourself. But I have Mylo waiting in the wings....
I've backed a couple before (a Fell and an RID) and it was fine but they were both very laid back. Myka is a very different prosect to those 2. Really looking forward to my Joe lesson next week.
I've backed a couple before (a Fell and an RID) and it was fine but they were both very laid back. Myka is a very different prosect to those 2. Really looking forward to my Joe lesson next week.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
In all honesty AE, given I know my Balou bred very well and have backed horses before and since, I took myself completely out of the equation for his backing
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
On the other hand I am fairly sure I could just clamber onto Felix today and take him out hacking, and he would not bat an eye-lid! (Not that I will of course. He's only 2 1/2). He is so laid back he's horizontal. Which is not my type of horse tbh. I prefer to have readily availble energy to work with, rather than having to generate it. But he'll be ideal for the hunting/pleasure rides/ all rounder home I hope I can find for him.
Mylo seems a happy medium. He is energetic and smart but a lot less sharp. Maybe Mylo will be mine to ride and Myka will be an 'owned by/ridden by' horse for me to enjoy other people competing
I've always thougt being an owner would be fun. Sipping Pimms while others do the stressful bit.
Mylo seems a happy medium. He is energetic and smart but a lot less sharp. Maybe Mylo will be mine to ride and Myka will be an 'owned by/ridden by' horse for me to enjoy other people competing
I've always thougt being an owner would be fun. Sipping Pimms while others do the stressful bit.
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
She'd definitely make faster progress with a pro. They do, in my experience. Well, I think mine would have made faster progress with a pro, had I used one.
When you start a youngster, I think you need a certain level of blind idiotic belief that you can stay on board that particular horse, no matter what it throws at you. Unless you're someone like Joe, and actually good! Obviously, all the prep work should make it a calm and positive experince, but you never know what can happen outside the arena. Getting a pro seems worth it if you have any questions.
Hermosa was also a ditzy idiot at 3. She acquired more of a brain at 4.
When you start a youngster, I think you need a certain level of blind idiotic belief that you can stay on board that particular horse, no matter what it throws at you. Unless you're someone like Joe, and actually good! Obviously, all the prep work should make it a calm and positive experince, but you never know what can happen outside the arena. Getting a pro seems worth it if you have any questions.
Hermosa was also a ditzy idiot at 3. She acquired more of a brain at 4.
Last edited:
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
It's this really. I trust Joe's ability to read a horse so I'd happily get on for the first time in a lesson with him as I'd assume absolutely nothing untoward would happen! But then what? How do I progress outside of the lessons. I think I will send her to him.
Peglo
Well-Known Member
Is that Felix in the bottom picture with Mylo?
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
This is Felix. He is absolutely bl00dy massive. Anyone want a mahoosive gentle giant?
Peglo
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, I knew he was a big lad. Goodness someone is going to be lucky to own him.
Felix’s “uncle” is stunning as well. Cannot believe he is 30! What a field of beauties
Felix’s “uncle” is stunning as well. Cannot believe he is 30! What a field of beauties
HufflyPuffly
Well-Known Member
My input for what it’s worth!
I have backed a few horses purely in the amateur sense! Beryl was mega, so straightforward, easy, did most of it all by myself. This is not normal in my experience!
Skylla, very sharp, very reactive. I still backed her myself but a couple of things were at play. I wasn’t sure I had someone I trusted to do it, if I did I would have sent her to them, she was the limit of my capabilities and I don’t know if some of her ‘quirks’ are from me. Two I had loads of help from friends who were v experienced.
I maintain the first experiences are so vital to them, it really is the biggest privilege. If you have someone you think will do a mega job go for it! I’ve been lucky to have some lovely lovely horses but it’s not the guarantee
I have backed a few horses purely in the amateur sense! Beryl was mega, so straightforward, easy, did most of it all by myself. This is not normal in my experience!
Skylla, very sharp, very reactive. I still backed her myself but a couple of things were at play. I wasn’t sure I had someone I trusted to do it, if I did I would have sent her to them, she was the limit of my capabilities and I don’t know if some of her ‘quirks’ are from me. Two I had loads of help from friends who were v experienced.
I maintain the first experiences are so vital to them, it really is the biggest privilege. If you have someone you think will do a mega job go for it! I’ve been lucky to have some lovely lovely horses but it’s not the guarantee
Xmasha
Well-Known Member
Its not just the backing, the riding away is an art too. I always send away to back, and i get pros in to help the riding away. I did most of the riding away with Pip my ID mare, but she was just super easy. Anything thats a bit sharp definitely get some good trustworthy help.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I’d say the riding away is often more important than the basic backing! It’s a very skilled job especially on a sharper Sporthorses. I’ve got friends who ride a 5*, some they do themselves, but some even they say are better off going away to a specialist!
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Yes it's actually that bit that worries me more than the first sit. Being 'out there' in the big wide world on a very green, very sharp horse! I'm seeing Joe tomorrow. I'll talk to him about it. She can be very chilled, but other days she is on her toes. And occasionally starts a session seemingly chilled and then something happens and she reacts more than I would have expected, given her earlier behaviour. So she feels a little unpredictable. Still it's very early days for a horse who had never left home before I picked her up.
HufflyPuffly
Well-Known Member
Definitely get Joes opinion, oddly some horses can be all snort and prance but you feel super secure, others not so much and its hard to guess until you do actually sit on them!
If I had had someone I thought would have suited Skylla, she would have gone away for backing and then again for riding away. She didn't give me a good feel and hated you being off balance (we had to ditch leaning and walking and go for sitting on, as she didn't like the lopsided'ness), I had to do a lot of being the brave one and saying she was mega, even though she felt like an unexploded bomb... She's turned out to be fantastic and I doubt I'll ever have a better hacking horse (physical issues stopping her comp career), she is so brave and gutsy!
I think if you give her time and remind yourself that she has done very little in her life so far, she might start to be less unpredictable, you might feel different, but I haven't seen her so I still think go by what Joe says. There is no one road with young horses
.dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
AP that's my worry with Reggie as he hasn't seen any of the world. With Robin it was easy as he's seen everything I could throw at him.
I'm sitting on and getting the basic stop, go, left and right in walk (trot if I feel brave) and then he's going to a pro up the road to ride on. Plan is to get 3 basic paces and have him hacking out so I can carry on when he comes back. I'm 'chickening out' of the bits I don't feel confident with, but it sits better with me.
I'm sitting on and getting the basic stop, go, left and right in walk (trot if I feel brave) and then he's going to a pro up the road to ride on. Plan is to get 3 basic paces and have him hacking out so I can carry on when he comes back. I'm 'chickening out' of the bits I don't feel confident with, but it sits better with me.
HufflyPuffly
Well-Known Member
It's not chickening out, it's giving a young horse the best start, be kinder to yourself!
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Roxylola
Well-Known Member
Bon (half brother) has a teleport option. He's sweet and kind and although he's snorty and prancy for the most part is brave.
But!
He occasionally just is not underneath you anymore - he's done it a couple of times when he's realised a strangers bottom is closer than he's happy with. I am pretty blooming sticky, (confirmed by Isobel Wessels so i feel I can own that) but I can't stay with those. They're low drama falls - pretty much land on my feet still in position just no longer with a horse under me
But!
He occasionally just is not underneath you anymore - he's done it a couple of times when he's realised a strangers bottom is closer than he's happy with. I am pretty blooming sticky, (confirmed by Isobel Wessels so i feel I can own that) but I can't stay with those. They're low drama falls - pretty much land on my feet still in position just no longer with a horse under me
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
Your both right.
I probably use the wrong terminology. I come from a family that were 'the pro's' so to send one of mine off seems a bit wrong if that makes sense. My biggest worry is he will feed off my lack of confidence/worry and then in turn lack confidence in those situations.
I think sending him somewhere else will be good for him.
HufflyPuffly
Well-Known Member
Oh the pressure to be brave and perfect affects us all I think! But giving young horses confidence is so important and if you'd rather someone else be the person being brave then thats fine in my book! You never get to be the one thinking 'oh crap' with baby horses, you've got to be the calm in the face of danger, we've got this, everything is fine, those sheep/cows/inflatable christmas decorations/ tractor billowing smoke with a huge clanky trailer are all TOTALLY fine
.I think its a real skill to produce a young horse to be a civilised individual! Though I do recommend in-hand showing as a youngster, they see everything and you're right there on the ground with them saying its all cool.
millitiger
Well-Known Member
Yep, mine always go away to school for a bit.
I like to back them at home and get them to walk and trot.
If they're quiet they can stay home for longer and he hacking etc and they go to school as 5yros to learn to jump and go on outings.
If they're sharper, they go away for the riding away part. You need a good nanny, lots of time and stick ability to install confidence, even if things start to go south..
I like all of mine to go away though, it is great for them to get away from 'mum' and learn at a new yard and environment.
They always come back home with a bit more swagger and more grown up- the pros push faster than me but within the horse's comfort zone so it's accelerated learning.
I like to back them at home and get them to walk and trot.
If they're quiet they can stay home for longer and he hacking etc and they go to school as 5yros to learn to jump and go on outings.
If they're sharper, they go away for the riding away part. You need a good nanny, lots of time and stick ability to install confidence, even if things start to go south..
I like all of mine to go away though, it is great for them to get away from 'mum' and learn at a new yard and environment.
They always come back home with a bit more swagger and more grown up- the pros push faster than me but within the horse's comfort zone so it's accelerated learning.
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
Totally that.Oh the pressure to be brave and perfect affects us all I think! But giving young horses confidence is so important and if you'd rather someone else be the person being brave then thats fine in my book! You never get to be the one thinking 'oh crap' with baby horses, you've got to be the calm in the face of danger, we've got this, everything is fine, those sheep/cows/inflatable christmas decorations/ tractor billowing smoke with a huge clanky trailer are all TOTALLY fine
I think its a real skill to produce a young horse to be a civilised individual! Though I do recommend in-hand showing as a youngster, they see everything and you're right there on the ground with them saying its all cool.
I've done all of the 'stuff' with the other youngster and he's a different kettle of fish. Reggie is the pity purchase and because he was so behind development wise he has been left to 'grow up' in the field rather than see the world. He's really grown up in the last couple of months so starting to do a bit more with him now. I'll update his thread soon rather than derailing AE's thread.
I do think Reggie will benefit from going away, but I don't think Robin would as he's so confident and forward and has picked up everything so quickly. I'll have lessons at home with him next spring to help bring him on a bit more. There all very different aren't they.
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Yeah, in hindsight sending Hermosa to a pro to be ridden away would not have been stupid. Though it would have had to be Joe for the hackamore stuff, and he is very far away.
She'd probably be further along, but but she's never been explosive or sharp, even as a two-year old (not counting some baby-related hormones, but you can't hold that against her), so I kind of figured we'd always muddle through. Had she been a lot hotter, I probably would have been more serious about finding a pro.
She'd probably be further along, but but she's never been explosive or sharp, even as a two-year old (not counting some baby-related hormones, but you can't hold that against her), so I kind of figured we'd always muddle through. Had she been a lot hotter, I probably would have been more serious about finding a pro.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Update following Joe lesson.
Myka showed off her funky moves occasionally, but most of the time was focused and tried hard. I’ve said it before, but Joe is a genius! He was able to see tension in Myka, that I was completely oblivious to, because she was responsive and obedient. He took over and identified what she was worried about very quickly then, for a while, it all got a bit more lively as he worked through her worries. But by the end she was much calmer with more clarity. She was far more worried about the flag than I had realised because she stood still to it and did not overreact when I used it, but things like flared ribs, breathing, diaphragm movement etc showed him the areas where she was still wary. And though her eruptions are often triggered by stuff outside the arena, even in the arena she is too close to threshold too much of the time. So we are not going from calm to spooky but from just about coping to not coping. He took her and did the same movement patterns I had done, and he said that while what she did looked almost identical, how she felt while doing it was very different. So that was really useful to know.
And I learned something new about flag work: I already knew that the flag is a tool not a weapon - never used to hit or scare, just to direct and correct. So before you can use it horses need to get comfortable with it, which you achieve by rubbing them with it when they are stood still, till they stop bracing or twitching or moving away. Also flap it and wave it around near them but with no intent - it's just noise that they need to ignore, as they come to understand from the rest of your energy/intent that it's not for them. So you either use it alongside intent/body language to communicate. Or you use it 'in neutral' and they should ignore it completely.
But for sensitive horses you also need to get it on them 'in neutral' while they are moving because sensitive horses react very differently to potential threats when stationary versus when moving. Horses perceive a flag approaching them when they are moving as chasing them. Whereas that same flag approaching them when they are stood till is seen as much less threatening. He says this has HUGE implications for backing a sensitive horse, because while most sensitive horses let you get on when stationary, as soon as they start to move, suddenly the sight of you moving above them, the noise of a coat etc can be a trigger and they buck you off.
His overall verdict is that a significant proportion of her dramatics would disappear with more of the work we were doing today, particularly with the flag. He felt that at the beginning of the lesson any attempt to get on her would end badly and quickly, whereas by the end, she was a lot closer to being ready. He also thinks I can back her which is reassuring considering he did see quite a lot of spice!
I am booking her in with him anyway though because he will just do a much better job. However, he doesn’t have space till April, so we will see where we’re up to by then. I’ve got lessons booked in in January and February, so I may have sat on her and done a bit by then with his help, but he can develop her much further once she goes there.
He also said I 'unintentionally cheat' by cueing through the head collar when the exercise is for her to match my movements. So I took it off to see how she did without it. I was quite pleased! See clip if interested. I do have to use the flag every so often but the difference is I move, and if she does not respond, I reinforce. The flag is not the first cue. Whereas when I am holding the lead rope, I have a habit of cueing with it while stepping. So she is getting 2 cues at the same time, and often responding to the wrong one.
Pics of the lesson.
Worried!
Just checking it out
Ok it's ok after all
Obedient AND relaxed
Myka showed off her funky moves occasionally, but most of the time was focused and tried hard. I’ve said it before, but Joe is a genius! He was able to see tension in Myka, that I was completely oblivious to, because she was responsive and obedient. He took over and identified what she was worried about very quickly then, for a while, it all got a bit more lively as he worked through her worries. But by the end she was much calmer with more clarity. She was far more worried about the flag than I had realised because she stood still to it and did not overreact when I used it, but things like flared ribs, breathing, diaphragm movement etc showed him the areas where she was still wary. And though her eruptions are often triggered by stuff outside the arena, even in the arena she is too close to threshold too much of the time. So we are not going from calm to spooky but from just about coping to not coping. He took her and did the same movement patterns I had done, and he said that while what she did looked almost identical, how she felt while doing it was very different. So that was really useful to know.
And I learned something new about flag work: I already knew that the flag is a tool not a weapon - never used to hit or scare, just to direct and correct. So before you can use it horses need to get comfortable with it, which you achieve by rubbing them with it when they are stood still, till they stop bracing or twitching or moving away. Also flap it and wave it around near them but with no intent - it's just noise that they need to ignore, as they come to understand from the rest of your energy/intent that it's not for them. So you either use it alongside intent/body language to communicate. Or you use it 'in neutral' and they should ignore it completely.
But for sensitive horses you also need to get it on them 'in neutral' while they are moving because sensitive horses react very differently to potential threats when stationary versus when moving. Horses perceive a flag approaching them when they are moving as chasing them. Whereas that same flag approaching them when they are stood till is seen as much less threatening. He says this has HUGE implications for backing a sensitive horse, because while most sensitive horses let you get on when stationary, as soon as they start to move, suddenly the sight of you moving above them, the noise of a coat etc can be a trigger and they buck you off.
His overall verdict is that a significant proportion of her dramatics would disappear with more of the work we were doing today, particularly with the flag. He felt that at the beginning of the lesson any attempt to get on her would end badly and quickly, whereas by the end, she was a lot closer to being ready. He also thinks I can back her which is reassuring considering he did see quite a lot of spice!
I am booking her in with him anyway though because he will just do a much better job. However, he doesn’t have space till April, so we will see where we’re up to by then. I’ve got lessons booked in in January and February, so I may have sat on her and done a bit by then with his help, but he can develop her much further once she goes there.
He also said I 'unintentionally cheat' by cueing through the head collar when the exercise is for her to match my movements. So I took it off to see how she did without it. I was quite pleased! See clip if interested. I do have to use the flag every so often but the difference is I move, and if she does not respond, I reinforce. The flag is not the first cue. Whereas when I am holding the lead rope, I have a habit of cueing with it while stepping. So she is getting 2 cues at the same time, and often responding to the wrong one.
Pics of the lesson.
Worried!
Just checking it out
Ok it's ok after all
Obedient AND relaxed
Peglo
Well-Known Member
Really interesting reading. Thank you for sharing. I wish we had someone like Joe here to help with these things.