Mylo & Myka

Another month and finally we are getting there..... After getting back on with Joe's reassuring presence, I made myself carry on riding every day - just in walk, focusing on yields and movement patterns with softness and lighness, and in all directions so she was used to the leg used in various different places on her body - side pass, back up, shoulder yields, hind yields and forwards. She was fine! One time a helicopter spooked her but she re-regulated very rapidly. Another time she stumbled and spooked but came to a smooth one-rein stop and then carried on as normal. The rest of the time she was chilled and relaxed.

Then I went on holiday for 11 days, and she had some downtime in the field. In the past, sheā€™s tended to regress quite a bit whenever sheā€™s had time off, sometimes even just a day, so I was a little apprehensive about the horse Iā€™d find when I got home. But I had another Joe lesson already booked, so there was no choice but to crack on so I could make the most of it.

I got back on Sunday, and ran through our groundwork checks and then tacked her up. Sheā€™d regressed a little but held it together pretty well. Monday, I repeated the process and she felt almost back to normal, so I hopped on. She was fab! Relaxed, soft, willing, calm. Yay!

Tuesday (yesterday) Joe came. We did very little groundwork before saddling, which went well, and then I had what really felt like a proper riding lesson. Not just a ā€œcan I get on and survive?ā€ session, but a lesson where we could actually focus on asking a bit more from her. She was relaxed, soft, light, and willing. We even established a nice relaxed, trot, rode some circles, and changed direction in trot. It felt like real progress. It has made me reflect on what was happening before the June disaster: the trainer was very focused on forward. And I do agree forward matters. But the more pressure Myka was put under, the more she needed. And though we did get forward, it was at the expense of lightness. Also she definitely does not understand leg into hand. So being asked to move forwrad into a firmer contact was confusing her I think. She undertands to soften when I pick up the reins, and she carries that soft feel into her work but there is no pressure on her mouth when she is soft. There IS a contact but it's way more gentle than she was being asked for in the schooling sessions running up to June. Lottie needed a tonne of pressure on her head so stay soft, and to fix that we had to drop the contact completely and teach her to carry herself, before picking it up again.

So I'm trying a different way now - lightness first and build on that gradually. She will float up into trot from the diagphragm with a tiny bit of leg, amd sustain it for 1/2 a lap of so. And in the walk she will shift from slow creeping walk to striding out with diaphragm shifts too, and seems perfectly willing & responsive. I don't think asking her for long and more forward trots - as we were doing before - is necessary just yet. Nor do I think asking for it with a firmer contact is helpful to her yet. We will see how that works out.....

Oh and I fell off. And am weirdly happy about it! Or at least about her response to it.

We were trotting down the long side of the arena, which is the spookiest part. It drops steeply through woods down to a road, with all sorts of mysterious noises coming from below. Myka got spooked by a sudden noise and reacted in a totally normal baby-horse way: she jumped sideways. A better rider might have stayed on, but I am who I am, and the sudden disappearance of the horse from underneath me was more than my balance could cope with, so down I went. The video does show a pretty high speed manouvre from her, but I am still annoyed that I couldn't sit it. But the real positive is that as soon as she had put some space between herself and the Scary Thing, she stopped. No bucking, no broncing, no panic about me falling off. It wasnā€™t about me or the saddle, she just needed to react. And once sheā€™d done that, she dialled herself down quickly.

So I got back on, and we carried on as if nothing had happened. No lingering tension, no loss of confidence: she stayed calm, focused, relaxed, and happy for the rest of the ride and we did some more chilled trot work.

I knew intellectually that a sideways spook from Myka means nothing more than a baby horse with a strong sense of self-preservation reacting in the moment. In the same way that I knew that Juneā€™s rodeo was a reaction to pain from a badly fitting saddle. But knowing and trusting are two very different things!

Today showed me just how far our trust in each other has recovered since June. Myka was able to spook, recover, and get straight back to work without spiralling. And I was able to fall off, dust myself off, and hop back on without carrying any fear with me. Our first fall! But it did not derail anything or set us back, which feels pretty good..... I trusted that there was nothing to worry about, that she wasnā€™t going to escalate, that we were fine.

After we finished riding I did some liberty - this is not something I specifically train, just something I do for fun to check out how well I can communicate with her and how willing she is sto stay with me when she does not have to. A clip for anyone interested. I LOVE her 'coming to the block' bit at the end! She's so lovely.

We are taking the slow road but that's ok.


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You're back! And that's a great update - very happy for you.

BTW I do find as you get to know how each horse spooks the ability to sit them gets better. The hooligan escaped into rich, rested grass last night and hacking around fields with my friend full of sugar showed that I can now 1) sit the spooks and laugh 2) have enough faith in us both to allow his neck out even when he's feeling like an unexploded bomb. And 2 probably helps with 1 but I've needed my brave pants to get to that stage!
 
With my old horse I could sit the spooks even though they were very sharp , I knew it was coming a fraction before she went so always stayed on, fast forward 6 years, the last 4 of which I didnā€™t ride, started riding and horse spooked and I went straight off. I was really annoyed with myself that my balance and stickability had disappeared .. old age I suppose šŸ˜Ÿ
 
I had zero warning. Joe was actually saying 'lovely' at the time of the spook because her trot was floaty and relaxed! Then she teleported. But it was very short lived and she seems none the worse for it.

Oh I forgot to say I also I put up a fence and invited her to jump it. She was game! I am no expert but I think she moves very nicely for a first effort over a fence!!

 
Ambers Echo said:
I had zero warning. Joe was actually saying 'lovely' at the time of the spook because her trot was floaty and relaxed! Then she teleported. But it was very short lived and she seems none the worse for it.

Oh I forgot to say I also I put up a fence and invited her to jump it. She was game! I am no expert but I think she moves very nicely for a first effort over a fence!!

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Oh Myka - you absolutely beautiful girly ā¤ļø She makes such a lovely shape over a fence x
 
Heā€™s proper chunked out hasnā€™t he ! Very handsome chap . Rather jealous of your grass .

Howā€™s Myka doing at school ?
 
Interesting feedback from Myka's trainer. She has been doing very well, appearing calm and relaxed and seeming entirely comfortable with the saddle and being ridden. So she stopped following the meticulous saddling routine. And Myka did not like that at all. She tolerated the saddle going on but then felt tense and 'not connected' in ground work. Softened up so trainer got on but then also felt 'just not really with me' when ridden. Didn't do anthing and I suspect most trainers and riders may have pushed through that, or not thought too much of it, thinkng they could work on connection while working on everything else. But the trainer decided just to walk and do school shapes and get her mind back. Once she felt 'nornal' she was put away. Next day she was back to normal and had a very good session.

She seems to erupt out of 'nowhere' but it probably isn't out of nowhere at all, but is out of those very subtle states where she complies and copes, but is a lot closer to threshold than she appears. So far so good.....

Mylo is a total sweetheart and picking up groundwork very fast. Really tries to figure things out, and once he's stumbled on the right answer once or twice he gets reliable pretty rapidly. Unlike his older brother who is a bit thick (!) , I think he's going to be very attuned and smart.
 
Bluewaves said:
Aw, i find it very endearing that his big brother is a bit thick. I have a soft spot for a numpty horse.
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He is utterly adorable. But I still remember him at about 8 months old stood in the pouring rain staring wistfully at the hay net that was hung in the shelter coz he could not work out how to step into it!
 
I know you havenā€™t asked for an opinion as you have a big team of experts around you, but Iā€™ll be honest if she was mine Iā€™d be sending her for a full vet workup, neck X-rays etc. Iā€™m probably scarred from my own history with horses, but every horse I have known which acts the way she sounds, has had an underlying pain trigger affecting the way their nervous system operates. Iā€™m about to send my own young horse in for the same, despite already having some X-rays etc done. I wondered if you had considered that at all? (Apologies as I will have missed it if you have already talked about this angle).
 
BBP2 said:
I know you havenā€™t asked for an opinion as you have a big team of experts around you, but Iā€™ll be honest if she was mine Iā€™d be sending her for a full vet workup, neck X-rays etc. Iā€™m probably scarred from my own history with horses, but every horse I have known which acts the way she sounds, has had an underlying pain trigger affecting the way their nervous system operates. Iā€™m about to send my own young horse in for the same, despite already having some X-rays etc done. I wondered if you had considered that at all? (Apologies as I will have missed it if you have already talked about this angle).
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Iā€™m also a walking equine hyperchondriac, but I too would have had a full set of X-rays by now and vet review.

In fact, when you are paying pros, itā€™s a months training fees to know where you stand. TBH I think moving forwards all mine will get the equivalent of a 5 stage and head to to X-rays. Forewarned is forearmed!

But I appreciate thatā€™s just me. And I donā€™t excessively panic on X-ray findings
 
BBP2 said:
I know you havenā€™t asked for an opinion as you have a big team of experts around you, but Iā€™ll be honest if she was mine Iā€™d be sending her for a full vet workup, neck X-rays etc. Iā€™m probably scarred from my own history with horses, but every horse I have known which acts the way she sounds, has had an underlying pain trigger affecting the way their nervous system operates. Iā€™m about to send my own young horse in for the same, despite already having some X-rays etc done. I wondered if you had considered that at all? (Apologies as I will have missed it if you have already talked about this angle).
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I've not said anything either, but this isnt just normal sharp horse behaviour. Shes had an awful lot of input from very talented and switched on people, and she is still incredibly reactive sometimes but not always. People are still having to pussy foot around her or theres explosions. At some point you should have been able to move past that. I always remember helping back racehorses back when I was a teenager and getting bollocked for being super quiet and careful. The first time or two yes, but then you have to move along to "normal". Something isnt right and I think you have thrown everything at it behaviour wise.

But its just my opinion and I havent ever seen her to have a right to an opinion so feel free to disregard all of that :)
 
I agree. Iā€™m not convinced this is normal sharp/sensitive horse behaviour. She has had super enlightened early training. She seems a very kind human orientated horse. While their default personality is not completely changed, kind intelligent ones can be moulded pretty quickly into fairly predictable types.
 
I'm afraid I suggested some xrays etc a while ago, as I thought her reactions seemed extreme, but I totally accept that I've never seen the horse, and many very skilled professionals have seen the horse, so it may well not be a physical problem. Its just that personally if she were my horse I'd have that niggle, and so I'd get vet intervention just to put my mind at rest if nothing else, I know I couldnt feel fully confident with the horse unless I knew I'd investigated, but thats only my opinion.
 
Gut is the other thing that can make a horse super reactive. I got a clear physical work-up from the vet after being decked 3 times in quick succession (& i have a decent seat) but it was deciding to treat the gut that calmed the behaviour.
 
Hi thanks for input. Cue a couple of sleepless nights wondering what I am missing but I am re-reading all the posts and my own post wondering if I have expressed things in a misleading way. I think I may have implied she is still 'erupting out of nowhere'. She isn't. She has not put a foot wrong since June when the saddle hurt her with the local trainer.

My post was really an 'I'm so pleased to have such a sensitive skilled trainer' post because that trainer is picking up tiny signals that most people wouldn't, paying attention to them, and working through them. So in the end nothing happens. On the basis that 'it's all about what happens before what happens happens', nothing happening is very good!

'Nothing happened' with Joe either during backing, but he kept feeling that it might in the early stages. Hence going slow and also hence my whole yard telling me to stop fannying about and get on with it! Then another trainer took her for a week in June and the wheels came off - linked to a failed tree that bruised her back. But also to missed signals about that.

Since then she has been slowly but surely improving, and before she went to the current trainer she felt as good as she had since June with saddling, and way better with everything else - ie re-regulating faster, tolerating more pressure, feeling more connected. Even coping with a helicopter that hovered above us on one 'oh shit' moment where again nothing happened beyond a small baby horse spook.

So back to my post - Myka was so good with the saddle that the current trainer took short cuts and Myka tolerated that, but was then subtly worried. Nothing happened but the trainer felt that the new saddling routine had got into her head and she was still processing that, not the work they were doing. But she corrected that and since then no issues. She can be saddled up rapidly - but she likes it to be done in a systematic order as she seems to have decided that doing it that way is fine. I will mix that up over time, as I don't want her to be too cognitively rigid about that, but it's not a priority, and I'll do it away from riding her. (Before Saddle-Gate number 2 in June she was fine with it going on any old how. But twice bitten, ten times shy it seems).

Unless I am missing something, the view is she she should by now be more relaxed and predictable and not need kid gloves anymore. And I think she is. We are not pussy footing around her. After all I am the only one who was riding her between June and October and I got her back trotting school figures again. And before Saddle Gate number 2 I was confident enough of her to take her to a Somerford camp where she was as good as gold over poles and in open spaces. I think it was all going in the right direction till a significant pain related set back and now we are back on track. If another set back happens then yes, next step would be full vet work up but actually I am feeling very positive and optimistic that she has put that behind her. Joe went to see her today and is delighted with her progress. Her trot is forward and flowing, she is relaxed, soft and supple, she feels connected and free. No tension evident in her work today.

That all said, I never rule out pain and have asked many pros about it since I have had her. No-one who has met her in real life (vets, physios, osteos, trainers) think she is in pain. I asked Joe again today and he said that the pattern and time-line do not fit with pain, and she does not look or behave like a horse in pain or anticipating pain. He does not think she'd tolerate it either. As she didn't when the saddle was hurting her back in June.

So for now I am just happy to have such positive feedback from Joe and co., and can't wait to have her home in a few weeks.

On a related side-note: I have just run a camp and several 4 years olds came. They were jumping all sorts including into water, the house in the water etc. These are sharp competition 4 years olds. I felt a bit deflated thinking how far off we are from anything remotely like that. I was delighted that she sniffed the water, never mind jumping into it! But then these horses would not stand for mounting, could be nappy etc. No criticism implied - people train in different ways. But the only way an ammy like me will be able to event a horse like Myka is if she is 100% solid. So building a really good foundation is key for me. Perhaps that has led people to think she is worse that she is?








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Well post #285 certainly didnā€™t give the same impression and tone of post #295.

And fwiw I wouldnā€™t take any 4yo to a camp. I appreciate many people do and feel itā€™s good for them, but in my opinion itā€™s too much for their brains and bodies.
 
I must admit, I have wondered a couple of times whether mentally she wasn't ready to be broken, and whether she might have benefited from another year in the field.

But I say that as someone who has never met the horse, and I'm not an expert by any means. In recent years ive come sort of come round to the thinking that *some* aren't mentally ready for a rider until 4 or 5.

Not a criticism of AE, just pondering.
 
Yes the reference to ā€˜erupting out of nowhereā€™ was historical. I see how itā€™s misleading. I was musing on past behaviour and feeling pleased that this new trainer is keeping her under threshold and is so attuned.

I run the camps and she has just come along for the experience and isnā€™t in any group sessions. She has been to 2. The first she wasnā€™t ridden at all, just taken about in hand. The 2nd I rode her for 10 minutes then hacked her back to the stable block on day 1. Had a 30 minute private poles session on day 2. And hacked her on the 80 acres with a nanny horse on day 3. She took it all in her stride.
 
I would guess that the reason for the general concern is that comfortable horses who have had good training donā€™t still need meticulous routines to getting the saddle on and getting on, months after backing. Even the crazy ones.

I have reactive, and dangerous, and overbred for colour with resultant crazy brain (all of which are sound and therefore improving steadily as they gain trust and confidence). I have had highly bred for sport and watched others. I have backed at all ages from 3 to 17 and I can tell you that itā€™s not all about perfect groundwork - current 3yo wouldnā€™t know groundwork if it hit her and sheā€™s solid as they come. With decent input, trauma fades and is gone in a few months unless they were in a serious accident (the vet and box rest kind) or watched something die. Pre programmed highly bred horses react well to a fine tuned rider and a consistent routine. But pain persists, maybe masked better, but it persists.

Pain I have know where trainers and vets could not see that there was an issue:
-kissing spine and things like neck arthritis that no one thinks to look for;
- a fractured pedal bone;
- metabolic issues causing low grade pain in all four hooves;
- dental issues causing low grade general anxiety due to constant pain;
- gut issues (incl worms despite worming programme/poo testing);
- anything with bilateral lameness incl forms of juvenile (or adult) arthritis and early stages of psd;
- subtle fractures from falls/playing that donā€™t cause acute pain but wonā€™t heal either;
- sacroiliac issues in the earlier stages.

I watched a local horse decline over months, with endless input from well known trainers costing serious money per lesson, vet assessment for lameness etc. I even watched one of those lessons as I was visiting. Trainer focused on the rider making the horse engage more behind - horse was struggling but the approach was that the rider needed to make her. Everyone said the horse was sound. Owner was unsure but trusted the professionals. Eventually, the horse had time off on box rest for a flesh injury. Came out crippled - arthritis diagnosed.

I have watched young horses fail to progress and seen the eventual diagnosis.

If you look back through the 3/4yo thread there are many cases where a horse was not progressing as expected, trainers and initial vet said fine, just temperament, and in fact it was then discovered there was a physical issue.

Why not check? If you are spending all this money anyway, why not see if there was something you could fix? The horse with the fractured pedal bone went from borderline dangerous to taking her owner to HOYSā€¦
 
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Myka has had a busy few weeks. She has been in training with Joe's protegee, Alisha, and has made fantastic progress. Joe has been overseeing her training - going over to teach Alisha on her every 2 weeks. I went down for a couple of days. Rode twice then took her to Somerford where she is going to spend a month hacking in a more contained environment than I can provide at home.

Her trot feels mega. So much lift and power! Glimpses of the horse she will one day be. She is soft and responsive and feels so nice to ride. Canter is coming slowly but she is pretty unbalanced. So while at Somerford I can work on that on hacks which will be easier for her.

Walked round the top loop of the farm ride today and she was as good as gold. A bit looky and snorty at times. All very normal baby horse stuff. But mostly just chilled and happily striding out on a long rein. I got ones of the pros to ride her for her first time in case of issues, but I feel fine about taking her myself now. We took her solo as I want to avoid her getting reliant on other horses. But soon I'll take her out with another horse.

To reiterate post 295 I am confident her issues have all been fear not pain related. Along with trigger stacking in a horse who was quite deceptive until we learned to read her better. In June a broken saddle dug into her back exactly where a predator sits and hurt her. Her behaviour was totally consistent with a horse in a blind panic. And it's taken her a long time to get over that and trust saddles again. But it feels like we are there again now. The more we work with her the more relaxed and happy she is becoming so that she has now not had any issues tacking up for weeks. I am still using predictable steps because she seems to feel secure and comfortable with our tacking up routine, and just munches hay or nibbles my hair while I am doing it. Which is again consistent with fear - she EXPECTED a problem but has learned that it really is ok. And so the routine keeps her in that 'it's ok, we're good' frame of mind. And as various trainers including Joe have said, 'it's working - why change it'. I will start skipping steps when she is home but while she is still being expected to cope with new experiences regularly at Somerford, I am setting her up to succeed any way I can, including in ways that are probably no longer necessary. But it takes all of 5 minutes extra to follow the routine, so why not take that time?

Feeling super proud of her. She's a star. And I can't wait till she comes home to meet her baby brother!

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