Naked showjumping

elaineh

elaineh

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Looking for some naked showjumpers (your horse, not you!) This picture was taken of international rider in Grand Prix competition 2011 (using draw reins, martingale, grackle & double bridle in warmup):

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www.Nakedshowjumping.com is proving you don't need to tie down a horses head to jump. Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nakedshowjumping/191763614256691
 
No, of course you don't need to tie a horse's head down to jump :rolleyes:

However, I don't think top riders will ever be able to compete every horse in a snaffle with no noseband/martingale whatever. I think it is really arrogant for people to assume they know better than people competing at top level - for them they have to win, it is their business. Someone competing at grand prix will not tend to choose tack on a whim, unlike a lot of novice and amateur riders. Better an experienced rider in a double than a ham fisted amateur in a snaffle!

FWIW I have never ridden in draw reins, and am not a martingale fan, but have successfully ridden a very sensitive mare in a double and grackle combination.

In an ideal world everything would work classically in the minimum of tack, but that is not ever going to happen. Without any context to that photo I don't see how anyone can draw any conclusions about it - no it's not the tack a lot of us would choose but then the bits used in a lot of Western riding make me wince.
 
Thats a bit much :S

I jump mine in either a hackamore or a snaffle... with a comfort bridle, used to have a gag for 'emergency' use lol but didnt need to use it so got rid xD
 
rhino said:
No, of course you don't need to tie a horse's head down to jump :rolleyes:

However, I don't think top riders will ever be able to compete every horse in a snaffle with no noseband/martingale whatever. I think it is really arrogant for people to assume they know better than people competing at top level - for them they have to win, it is their business. Someone competing at grand prix will not tend to choose tack on a whim, unlike a lot of novice and amateur riders. Better an experienced rider in a double than a ham fisted amateur in a snaffle!

FWIW I have never ridden in draw reins, and am not a martingale fan, but have successfully ridden a very sensitive mare in a double and grackle combination.

In an ideal world everything would work classically in the minimum of tack, but that is not ever going to happen. Without any context to that photo I don't see how anyone can draw any conclusions about it - no it's not the tack a lot of us would choose but then the bits used in a lot of Western riding make me wince.
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I agree.

I know we're judging based on one photo, but what horse would warrant that kind of tack? The look in his eye just seems tense and defeated.
 
Puzzles said:
I agree.

I know we're judging based on one photo, but what horse would warrant that kind of tack? The look in his eye just seems tense and defeated.
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If the sun was shining in the other direction you might find that changed - lighting does funny things to eyes in photographs.

I agree with the opinions above. A photograph is a snapshot of a moment that holds no context to the environment the horse is and and no information on its history or its riders decisions. We can't truely evaluate things like this from one photograph.

I do like your message, however OP. But I also know not all horses will be that simple.
 
Puzzles said:
I agree.

I know we're judging based on one photo, but what horse would warrant that kind of tack? The look in his eye just seems tense and defeated.
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I don't think you can tell that much from one pic. As one of HHO's more experienced competitors stated on the last thread we had about this pic, we are talking about a world class showjumper, and at this level a few hundredths of a second can be the difference between winning and losing (and there are huge sums of money resting on this).

It is also taken in the warmup - draw reins are not allowed in the class themselves so is perfectly possible it is a horse who is known to be difficult in the warmup but settles to jump well. I know a huge number of people who use legal calmers on their horses to try and settle them before a comp. It's not tack I would choose, but I am never going to compete at that level. Much as I wouldn't expect every horse to go round badminton in the most basic of tack. :)

And before I get called cruel :rolleyes: this is the tack my horse generally competed in

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No crit please, novice 13 year old jockey up :) Loosering french link, no noseband, no martingale etc. For this horse this was the tack to suit.
 
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Im not one to condone bitting horses up to the eyeballs or using oads of gadgets but at the end of the day if a certain bitting combination works then why not use it?

I think a lot of people forget that these horses at the top of their game showjumping are quite often 'freaks of nature' and if a certain piece of equipment helps them perform to their best then why not?

As others have said its far better to see a horse going well in a stronger bit/noseband whatever than see someone hauling its back teeth out.

Yes at your local bsja show you quite often see not so pretty sights with people using whatever seems to be in vogue from equiport but the very top showjumpers at internation shows seem to me (in most part) very quiet, accurate, sensitive riders.
 
Does anyone really think that amount of tack is ever warranted, even if it's in a warm-up ring and even if it's got "top professional" mitts on the reins?

I've seen posts from a lot of people here who could contribute to the Naked Showjumping portfolio.

It always strikes me as wierd that you can find many excellent cowboy/western type people who do amazingly skilled and fast work and never feel that they need to stick this sort of crap on their horses. If they get to the standard of a curb bit, it's regarded as a tool of refinement and a demonstration of high-level attainment in horse and rider. The training stages use simple equipment, not the opposite. The great western riders don't resort to the blunt instruments that seem to be acceptable in the show jumping world.
 
True words ... it still gets my back up though because people do use things like ^that^ not uncommonly. Plus at the higher levels of competition, the horse often has a warm-up that would resemble a leisure rider's schooling session so may well be tacked up that that for a fair period of time. If the horse is well trained and not absolutely insane then I just can't imagine (though my brain is quite limited;)) why that kind of tack would be necessary. Different kind of noseband/bit/martingale? Fine. All together plus draw reins? Hmm. If a horse really does require that kind & amount of tack to do a job then I would question wheter that horse should be doing that job at all. I'm sorry but I'm not one for the 'they're professionals and must know best' line...
It makes one wonder what they use at home.
That's a fair point, Tinypony.
 
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Tinypony said:
Does anyone really think that amount of tack is ever warranted, even if it's in a warm-up ring and even if it's got "top professional" mitts on the reins?
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I don't! How the horse manages to concentrate to jump with all that going on is a miracle to me! Draw reins as well? :confused:
 
Am I missing something but I am assuming a horse would not jump in draw reins- EVER? Is this just for groundwork before warm up jumps are stared? You can't physically jump a horse in draw reins as far as I'm aware- can you? Ridiculous amount of tack on if any horse had to wear that much apparatus it is either seriously unhappy or has physical issues I.e. Knackered hocks which is putting it on the forehand...
 
Here we go again!!

It is possible that the horse is not in pain & just goes best in that tack! Who am I to judge what that rider does with their horse!! It obviously is working if they are competing at that level & I'm sure they're not that dim that they don't know what they're doing!

It winds me up when people judge without knowing the history. Come & try jumping our cob in a snaffle, no martingale & no flash.

I bet you don't try it again.
 
I'm sure you're right about the draw reins Milanesa but why are they needed for warm up? 'Hard' schooling at that late stage is a sign neither horse or rider are ready to me...
 
elaineh said:
nbadge.jpg


Looking for some naked showjumpers (your horse, not you!) This picture was taken of international rider in Grand Prix competition 2011 (using draw reins, martingale, grackle & double bridle in warmup):

poorhorse.jpg


www.Nakedshowjumping.com is proving you don't need to tie down a horses head to jump. Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nakedshowjumping/191763614256691
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Have to agree that no matter what - this is ridiculous. The poor horse. It is simply using mechanical means instead of proper training. This is not horsemanship.
 
Oh for god sake ... This horse is jumping at GRAND PRIX level with a very well known show jumper. Who are WE to judge what tack this horse has on!? It clearly works for this horse as it sucseafully jumps at this level. If this horse was uncomfortable or in some sort of pain I'm sure it would NOT jump fences that are over 1.40!! Get a grip and find something else to moan about where you can actually back up what your saying. Unless you know the horse/rider/owner personally who are you to judge!?
 
Milanesa said:
Am I missing something but I am assuming a horse would not jump in draw reins- EVER? Is this just for groundwork before warm up jumps are stared? You can't physically jump a horse in draw reins as far as I'm aware- can you?
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yes you are missing something. Go watch the warm up for any GP / large class and I can assure you you will see at least 50% of horses jumping in draw reins. They are generally removed only for the last 2 or 3 warmup jumps before going in the ring.
 
How can anyone tell anything from one picture. The horse is in a double bridle- so what! With regards to the draw reins , I would imagine that the horse is waiting for a prize giving or just working in on the flat. He is prob a stallion, that is highly schooled and jumping to a decent level. To jump the height of fences they do you have to have a horse that wants to go.
I for one would rather see a horse jumped in a double with a soft contact than a snaffle, running through the hand and having to be held with a firm contact to control it.
Of course the horse is not competing in the draw reins- this is against the rules! The chances are they have been put on to keep the horse in control in either the prize giving or a exciting enviroment.
I don't actually think the horse looks 'pulled in' in them.
The noseband is a grackle- again, pretty common
Also, do take into account the skill of the rider using them- its hardly likley to be some one that can;t balance or doesn't understand how to use them correctly.
If any of you have ever been to a top level international SJ competition you would understand how many people are expected to warm up in a tiny area, when you are sat on a fit stallion you need to be able to control it otherwise there would be carnage!
Oh and if people think a double bridle is too much then we better stop grand prix dressage as well!
 
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Without commenting on that picture which is only a snapshot in time, I don't think that the fact someone rides at a high level should automatically mean that they are above question or criticism. I don't think anyone should be above question or criticism, for any reason.

It's by questioning the status quo that change happens. If no one had ever questioned why horse had to be exported from the UK for slaughter, for example, we would still be exporting large numbers as we were during the early part of the last century. Because Ada Cole and others questioned this, we are now in a very different situation. It's a very different example obviously, but until someone stood up and asked the question nobody had thought much about what was happening to old workhorses or thought to question the trade. It was asking that question that began the process of change.
 
I think the skill of the rider does have to come into it. As does the animal that they are sat on. To ride a stallion jumping at that level will be like driving a formula one car.
As I have said, and will say once again. The horse WOULD NOT have competed in the draw reins.
There are two senerios for having them on:
1) He is tricky in the warm up, therefore, the draw reins are on to keep the lid on the horse to protect himself/ the rider/ others in the warm up/general public
2) He is waiting for the prize giving- mounted prize giving. Again a highly charged atmosphere. In this case he would prob only been ridden in walk and for about 5 minutes like it.
I have no problem whatsover with the noesband and double bridle.I still don't understand the commenty 'all that tack'? It is just a double bridle and a grackle- that is all.
 
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Spudlet said:
Without commenting on that picture which is only a snapshot in time, I don't think that the fact someone rides at a high level should automatically mean that they are above question or criticism. I don't think anyone should be above question or criticism, for any reason.
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Hear, hear!

What is the measure here? Is winning and being well known the standard for horse centred horsemanship then? Yes, I include GP dressage too btw.

If it is, I'm out then...
 
Contradictory posts re the draw reins . I didn't think you could jump a horse in them at all at any level blimey!! I am by no means a showjumper but am shocked if this is normal practise to be honest! Way over the top to have to use all this kit IMO.
 
you CANNOT jump in the ring at any level with draw reins- the horse would have been photographed either in the warm up where they are allowed or in the prize giving where they are allowed.
And you can jump a horse in draw reins, you just need to allow with the hands- look at old pics of David Broom and the likes- in draw reins

What I don't understand is the baulk at some one jumping in a double but no one would question some one jumping in a pelham and a grackle!
 
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jeeve said:
Have to agree that no matter what - this is ridiculous. The poor horse. It is simply using mechanical means instead of proper training. This is not horsemanship.
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Why don't you offer to go and school it for them then, since you are obviously a better rider :rolleyes:

Spudlet said:
Without commenting on that picture which is only a snapshot in time, I don't think that the fact someone rides at a high level should automatically mean that they are above question or criticism. I don't think anyone should be above question or criticism, for any reason.
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No, but there is a huge difference between saying 'Pro's do it so it's always right' and 'Pro's will have put careful consideration into what tack is most suitable for them'. Looking at one photo cannot tell you that.
 
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