Naming and shaming...

[BBH]

I haven't read the whole of the thread but I think this whole area should be tightened up to protect the buying public from unscrupulous dealers and likewise offer protection to dealers from buyers who cry foul at the drop of a hat.

I think any reputable dealer should want to belong to some recognised body that acts as a kind of ' kite' mark so each side has some security.


I do think one area that should easily be resolved is when the horse has a definate physical problem and the dealer sells it on knowingly. Or if the horse is sold as a 7yrs and is in fact 3 or a 24yr old sold as 13 etc. In cases like these the dealers are clearly in the wrong and they should make amends by either taking the horse back or returning the money.

Cases where new horses are proving unsuitable under saddle are harder to resolve as its not cut and dry.

 

[Kaylum]

This is a subject I have never understood. After all you can say things about bad builders, plumbers etc there are even tv programs about them. Is it because the evidence is in front of your eyes with buildings, workmanship? As again surely there are two sides to every story even with builders. Even the spoken word is classed as slander?

So I am just wondering why we cannot say stay away from bad dealers, yard owners, horse trainers, instructors, farriers.

Paying money to advertise thats up to them but at the end of the day whether they pay money or not if they arent up to the job then tough.

 

[SarahX]

I haven't read the whole of the thread but I think this whole area should be tightened up to protect the buying public from unscrupulous dealers and likewise offer protection to dealers from buyers who cry foul at the drop of a hat.

I think any reputable dealer should want to belong to some recognised body that acts as a kind of ' kite' mark so each side has some security.

I think this would be a brilliant idea.

 

[Kat]

I can understand why HHO are wary of this cropping up and I think a blanket ban is probably the easiest way for them to deal with it.

At the end of the day we all want to be sure of the dealer we buy from and if we have a problem we want to prevent other people having similar experiences. But HHO isn't the best way to do this. Trading Standards is the appropriate means to deal with rogue traders of any kind. Report anyone you have a bad experience with and feel free to contact them about a business you are considering paying a lot of money to.

The TV programmes that deal with rogue traders have lots of legal advice to make sure that they don't step over the mark and put themselves at risk of being sued for defamation (the line between libel and slander isn't as straight forward as other posters suggest but it makes little difference which it is so I'll just use the blanket term defamation). I'm sure if HHO had the resources to police the site and take legal advice then they would be happy to "out" rogue dealers but they don't and people don't understand where the line should be drawn so it is easier to ban talking about dealers. We need to remember that in defamation anyone who "publishes" the defamatory statement can be sued, not just the original person who makes the statement and defending a defamation case is incredibly expensive.

It is a shame, but understandable.

If you have a bad experience, do make sure that you report it to trading standards.

Contact the likes of Watchdog too, and your local press, they are interested in this sort of thing and are better placed than a free internet forum.

 

[Flicker]

Kaylum, I think it is because bad workmanship can be objectively proved, whereas with horses / living creatures, it is a different story. A horse can be a dream ride with one jockey and satan with another - that is not necessarily the fault of the person selling the horse, but could even be the fault of the person buying it.
I know someone who bought a horse from a dealer who also hires the horses for sale out as hunters. They live in a lot, and are worked very hard, and schooled by experienced riders. The person I know rode the horse at the dealer's yard, handled it, tacked it up etc, and it was a gentleman.
When they got it home, the horse was turned out on fantastic grazing, and the new owners didn't ride it for a week, to let it 'settle in', then wondered why it was a different horse to the one they bought. They kept the horse for about 5 years, until it eventually sent this girl flying, but all the time letting it get away with more and more bad behaviour.
I couldn't believe it when they sold it and I overheard her telling someone that they thought the dealer in question had sold them a 'dud'.
Jeez of all the arrogance!
I agree though, there should be some kind of Best Practice standard that dealers can subscribe to, with regular inspections and 'mystery shoppers'.

 

[Kat]

This is a subject I have never understood. After all you can say things about bad builders, plumbers etc there are even tv programs about them. Is it because the evidence is in front of your eyes with buildings, workmanship? As again surely there are two sides to every story even with builders. Even the spoken word is classed as slander?

So I am just wondering why we cannot say stay away from bad dealers, yard owners, horse trainers, instructors, farriers.

Paying money to advertise thats up to them but at the end of the day whether they pay money or not if they arent up to the job then tough.

Saying untrue things which have a negative affect on the reputation of anyone is defamation. HHO aren't likely to allow any defamatory statements to stay on the site no matter who they are about. The rules say no defamatory statements full stop, it is just that they have had to clarify this in relation to dealers.

If you post a thread that says Fred the Farrier can't shoe a horse to save his life, has lamed six this week and got his certificates of the internet that is going to be taken down too!

Anyone can be defamed, as long as they have a reputation to be detrimentally affected. Jason Donovan sued for defamation after being called gay in the press, the actor and actress who played Madge and Harold in Neighbours sued after suggestions were made about their sex lives in a national newspaper. My lecturer sued for defamation after he got a particularly nasty review on a text book he wrote! Having read it I can see why he lost!

 

[The_snoopster]

Did the dealer above explain to the buyers that the horse was kept in very regular work and lived in, and turning it out on good grass and with a less experienced rider than the riders who usually ride it that it may not be as odedient with them at home than on the day they tried it.

Maybe the buyers should of asked these questions before they purchased so some of the fault lies with them, but in my experience most dealers are happy to sell horses to folk who appear to be able to ride that horse on the day tried.

It is very rarely a dealer asks the buyer questions about how many times a week they will want to ride, or wether the horse will live in or out, things that can affect a horses way of going that will differ than on the day a horse is tried buy a potential buyer.

Apologies if this particular dealer did ask these questions, but they so often do not.

 

[EAST KENT]

Horses are living free minded creatures. My first mare was perfect,from a well known dealer at that time from west sussex,green but quiet,we gelled and she was with me till she was 24 and put down for melanoma. With another horse in between and with navicular in her twilight years,she was approached again.This time it was not such a good result,and I lost £3500. My present horse is again an Irish paragon...."if you can`t ride that get a bloody rocking horse" in the words of the dealer! My point is that THIS lady probably has disatisfied customers too,but my horse is very genuine. Again she was very green but essentially quiet and honest. NEVER over-estimate your ability,understate it if anything .One thing I have always noted..whatever is stressed repeatedly is probably it`s problem area.For instance "oh ,she`s been driven so does`nt know how to nap" napped like Hell!Another one.."would load into the back of your car"...funny how it`s bottom lip hung down when we collected her and she did indeed load perfectly! However on them collecting her it took a brutal two hours for them to load in a very low trailer.And my reason for returning that one was it napped,spun and bolted on the road several times...nothing to do with loading! Buyer Beware!

 

[Kaylum]

Yes I suppose I never thought about the legal advice these trader programs had been given. Knew a girl who worked at a well known dealer at the time importer of dutch warmbloods. They were selling them for £1,500 (for a start any half good dutch imported warmblood wouldnt be sold for that price), that said she was a good rider and she lasted a week, some of the horses they hadnt even brushed and they were up on the website ready for sale and they hadnt even ridden them yet. They had open days and people were fighting over these horses cause they were so cheap. Cheap for a reason of course. She was thrown off everyday that week. Poor animals. But because they were cheap and it said dutch warmblood on the website people bought them. They had loads of complains to ST and eventually moved and opened up again elsewhere and they were actually named and shamed on the BHS website forum as was.

 

[lulu111]

im am the one so many of you want to slag off , where is the help for us when it comes to these jumped up no it alls that cant ride its so easy to blame the dodgy dealer , because that is what makes you all feel better about yoursleves troylimbo being such one , what maybe you should all think about if you spent as much time on here as you do your horses maybe you would have something to talk about , we are always to blame i am more than happy to video every complaining customer, then you would have something to talk about , rather than talk about poor you , its poor horses , its very easy for you to slag off on here about dealers , oh sorry forgot dogey , its not us its really is 90% of the time what you are doing with it when you get it home, and how you treat it , troylimbo said it all for me i asked her why she slated me , i asked why the first horse hands up got wrong it came from johnny and julia martin it the failed the vet took it back she then brought a coloured pony she liked had vetted and passed hands up more money .3500 POUNDS both the vet and farrier, he needs to come in to it where over the moon has emails to prove if you wish , 6 weeks down the line it starts kicking out , we where all baffled vet included at my expense when i picked it up , as i felt maybe she was in foal or coming into season it, so i told them she was not happy , she needed an exchange ,what was i to get next ????? i then had a customer who i had sold a very well bred connie 6 to 9 months earlier, that was a mother daughter share it was not working as the pony was to big for the daughter and wanted a smaller pony , i said ihave the pefect soloution work away between yourselves both have be 5 stage vetted , if you are happy then i will just do the swop over , which they did all i charged was the 50 diesel , they spoke went to each other yards swapped tack so on and on but hello the connie has problems who fault is it FIRST CHOICE we are the lowest of the lowest but all i asked miss troylimbo what did i do wrong she couldnt answer me but its ok to make up lies sorry i forgot you needed to bring my family children the lot into it , and whenever somebody mentions first choice, come on slag me off a bit more , do you think we want to sell unsuitable horses it is not in any dealers interest, what all dealers find these days the horse only needs to swing its the head the wrong way and its our fault , i will take every single and quote me on this horse back video it all over a week and then you make your own minds up so come all you anti first choice back up you claims i will go anywhere any time ALL ON VIDEO WITH ANY JUDGE TO PROVE US RIGHT , put that on any forum you like under any name because i have kept mine and will do so i have nothing to hide at all and will prove it to whoever asks apart from some very nasty nasty vindictive people there is two sides to every story !!!!!!!i i wait your pages of replies under how many different names i am first choice and proud off it !!!!!!!

 

[fumanchu]

im am the one so many of you want to slag off , where is the help for us when it comes to these jumped up no it alls that cant ride its so easy to blame the dodgy dealer , because that is what makes you all feel better about yoursleves troylimbo being such one , what maybe you should all think about if you spent as much time on here as you do your horses maybe you would have something to talk about , we are always to blame i am more than happy to video every complaining customer, then you would have something to talk about , rather than talk about poor you , its poor horses , its very easy for you to slag off on here about dealers , oh sorry forgot dogey , its not us its really is 90% of the time what you are doing with it when you get it home, and how you treat it , troylimbo said it all for me i asked her why she slated me , i asked why the first horse hands up got wrong it came from johnny and julia martin it the failed the vet took it back she then brought a coloured pony she liked had vetted and passed hands up more money .3500 POUNDS both the vet and farrier, he needs to come in to it where over the moon has emails to prove if you wish , 6 weeks down the line it starts kicking out , we where all baffled vet included at my expense when i picked it up , as i felt maybe she was in foal or coming into season it, so i told them she was not happy , she needed an exchange ,what was i to get next ????? i then had a customer who i had sold a very well bred connie 6 to 9 months earlier, that was a mother daughter share it was not working as the pony was to big for the daughter and wanted a smaller pony , i said ihave the pefect soloution work away between yourselves both have be 5 stage vetted , if you are happy then i will just do the swop over , which they did all i charged was the 50 diesel , they spoke went to each other yards swapped tack so on and on but hello the connie has problems who fault is it FIRST CHOICE we are the lowest of the lowest but all i asked miss troylimbo what did i do wrong she couldnt answer me but its ok to make up lies sorry i forgot you needed to bring my family children the lot into it , and whenever somebody mentions first choice, come on slag me off a bit more , do you think we want to sell unsuitable horses it is not in any dealers interest, what all dealers find these days the horse only needs to swing its the head the wrong way and its our fault , i will take every single and quote me on this horse back video it all over a week and then you make your own minds up so come all you anti first choice back up you claims i will go anywhere any time ALL ON VIDEO WITH ANY JUDGE TO PROVE US RIGHT , put that on any forum you like under any name because i have kept mine and will do so i have nothing to hide at all and will prove it to whoever asks apart from some very nasty nasty vindictive people there is two sides to every story !!!!!!!i i wait your pages of replies under how many different names i am first choice and proud off it !!!!!!!

oooer...

 

[bexwarren24]

Um, I have nothing really to say to that post, lol! I have never slagged off a dealer even though every horse I have bought has been from one (or a market) but I normally go into it with my eyes wide open. I tend to agree there are two sides of a story. Behaviour issues are difficult to prove who has caused what. The only thing I really have problems with is dealers changing ages/doping/delibrately hiding illness.

 

[Tinypony]

Lulu111, your post is almost impossible to read. This is a thread about warning others about bad dealers. Unless you're a bad dealer then it probably doesn't apply to you.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

Lulu111, your post is almost impossible to read. This is a thread about warning others about bad dealers. Unless you're a bad dealer then it probably doesn't apply to you.

I have to admit to giving up!!

 

[bexwarren24]

Lulu111, your post is almost impossible to read. This is a thread about warning others about bad dealers. Unless you're a bad dealer then it probably doesn't apply to you.

I admit its not easy to understand but I think lulu111 is first choice horses/ponies and she has been bad mouthed a few times in this paticular thread (even though names werent directly mentioned).

 

[eoe]

There are good dealers and there are the bad dealers, some buyers go into dealers yards and totally over horse themselves and blame the dealers, some people go into dealers yards fall in love with a horse, buy it and can't ride it. In my opinion in this scenario it is the buyers fault.

For those dodgy dealers out there that buy up horses that are not fit for purpose so long as buyers are going to their yards and buying these horses they will stay in business.

I have to say that I know people who I have told not too buy from private sellars as some of them make the bad dealers look like saints.

I run a medium sized livery yard and have 3 horses that were brought from the dealer in East Sussex, all 3 horses passed 5 stage vettings with bloods taken, all three horses are exactly fit for purpose, they were brought as all rounders and this is what they are, they hack, they jump etc etc they do everything that was in their advert.

My advice to people is when buying go with your eyes wide open and DO NOT let your heart rule your head.

 

[lulu111]

Iim am the one so many of you want to slag off. Where is the help for us when it comes to these jumped up no it alls that cant ride.???? Its all so easy to blame the dodgy dealer , because that is what makes you all feel better about yoursleves. Troylimbo being such one ,and is why i am you her as examplewhich is why maybe you should all think about it. if these people spent as much time on here as you do your horses maybe you would have something to talk about . We are always to blame i am more than happy to video every complaining customer,the ones on here as lots of the people then you would have something to talk about , rather than talk about poor you , its poor horses , its very easy for you to slag off on here about dealers , oh sorry forgot dogey , its not us its really is 90% of the time what you are doing with itand what happens when you get it home, and how you treat it , troylimbo said it all for me i asked her why she slated me , The first horse hands up got wrong it came from johnny and julia martin it the failed the vetand i took it back , she then brought a coloured pony she liked had vetted and passed hands up more money .3500 POUNDS was the price 700 extra on what she paid for the first both the vet and farrier, he needs to come in to it and troylimbo mother and father as well child where over the moon with this coloured pony has emails to prove if you wish , 6 weeks down the line it starts kicking out , we where all baffled vet included .At my expense i picked it up , had it investigated as i felt maybe she was in foal or coming into season it,she was niether so i told them she was not happy , she needed an exchange ,what was i to get next ????? I then had a customer who i had sold a very well bred connie 6 to 9 months earlier,for 3500 that was a mother daughter share it was not working as the pony was to big for the daughter and wanted a smaller pony , i said ihave the pefect soloution work away between yourselves both have be 5 stage vetted , if you are happy then i will just do the swop over , which they did. All i charged was the 50 diesel , they spoke went to each other yards swapped tack so on and on but hello the connie has problems who fault is it FIRST CHOICE but why???? we are the lowest of the lowest but all i asked miss troylimbo what did i do wrong she couldnt answer me but its ok to make up lies sorry i forgot you needed to bring my family children the lot into it . And whenever somebody mentions first choice, come on slag me off a bit more , as that is all she does . Do you think we want to sell unsuitable horses???It is not in any dealers interest, what all dealers find these days the horse only needs to swing its the head the wrong way and its our fault , I would take every single and quote me on this horse back video it all over a week and then you make your own minds up so come all you anti first choice back up you claims i will go anywhere any time ALL ON VIDEO WITH ANY JUDGE TO PROVE US RIGHT , put that on any forum you like under any name because i have kept mine and will do so i have nothing to hide at all and will prove it to whoever asks apart from some very nasty nasty vindictive people there is two sides to every story !!!!!!!i i wait your pages of replies under how many different names i am first choice and proud off it !!!!!!

 

[anadain]

Iim am the one so many of you want to slag off. Where is the help for us when it comes to these jumped up no it alls that cant ride.???? Its all so easy to blame the dodgy dealer , because that is what makes you all feel better about yoursleves. Troylimbo being such one ,and is why i am you her as examplewhich is why maybe you should all think about it. if these people spent as much time on here as you do your horses maybe you would have something to talk about . We are always to blame i am more than happy to video every complaining customer,the ones on here as lots of the people then you would have something to talk about , rather than talk about poor you , its poor horses , its very easy for you to slag off on here about dealers , oh sorry forgot dogey , its not us its really is 90% of the time what you are doing with itand what happens when you get it home, and how you treat it , troylimbo said it all for me i asked her why she slated me , The first horse hands up got wrong it came from johnny and julia martin it the failed the vetand i took it back , she then brought a coloured pony she liked had vetted and passed hands up more money .3500 POUNDS was the price 700 extra on what she paid for the first both the vet and farrier, he needs to come in to it and troylimbo mother and father as well child where over the moon with this coloured pony has emails to prove if you wish , 6 weeks down the line it starts kicking out , we where all baffled vet included .At my expense i picked it up , had it investigated as i felt maybe she was in foal or coming into season it,she was niether so i told them she was not happy , she needed an exchange ,what was i to get next ????? I then had a customer who i had sold a very well bred connie 6 to 9 months earlier,for 3500 that was a mother daughter share it was not working as the pony was to big for the daughter and wanted a smaller pony , i said ihave the pefect soloution work away between yourselves both have be 5 stage vetted , if you are happy then i will just do the swop over , which they did. All i charged was the 50 diesel , they spoke went to each other yards swapped tack so on and on but hello the connie has problems who fault is it FIRST CHOICE but why???? we are the lowest of the lowest but all i asked miss troylimbo what did i do wrong she couldnt answer me but its ok to make up lies sorry i forgot you needed to bring my family children the lot into it . And whenever somebody mentions first choice, come on slag me off a bit more , as that is all she does . Do you think we want to sell unsuitable horses???It is not in any dealers interest, what all dealers find these days the horse only needs to swing its the head the wrong way and its our fault , I would take every single and quote me on this horse back video it all over a week and then you make your own minds up so come all you anti first choice back up you claims i will go anywhere any time ALL ON VIDEO WITH ANY JUDGE TO PROVE US RIGHT , put that on any forum you like under any name because i have kept mine and will do so i have nothing to hide at all and will prove it to whoever asks apart from some very nasty nasty vindictive people there is two sides to every story !!!!!!!i i wait your pages of replies under how many different names i am first choice and proud off it !!!!!!

Sorry don't know who you are - no one has been named on here - I appriciate there are good and bad dealers but I don't know of any personal cases involving you. This thread is about bad experiences in general and anyone has a right to state if they have a bad experience - I think you may have taken it a bit too personally!

 

[bexwarren24]

Sorry don't know who you are - no one has been named on here - I appriciate there are good and bad dealers but I don't know of any personal cases involving you. This thread is about bad experiences in general and anyone has a right to state if they have a bad experience - I think you may have taken it a bit too personally!

I think it was the bit about the horse dealer who had the same name as a holiday company (I remember reading it twice). Could argue though that it may not be that holiday company. Lol!

 

[hessy12]

I would like to name one based in East Anglia, but obviously will NOT! I think for people's safety and equine welfare, it should be allowed on here, with a disclaimer perhaps that is just that person's experience and is not slander.

 

[anadain]

I think it was the bit about the horse dealer who had the same name as a holiday company (I remember reading it twice). Could argue though that it may not be that holiday company. Lol!

I see - thanks for clearing that up! Never heard of them!

 

[Weezy]

lulu111 - you are right, First Choice have absolutely taken a bashing on this forum more than once. You are obviously royally peed off about that and I can understand why you would be if you are running a legit business. Remember tho, people choose horses, but you can choose the buyer too.

Dealers get a very hard rap in this country (most countries only have dealers, private sales are very rare). Fact is those that buy MUST take a certain amount of responsibility in their choices. Horses can and do change subject to their environment, they are not machines, they are flight animals.

Dealers must be sure that the horses they are selling are fit for purpose - I have no time for dealers who I read have sold a horse on and the horse is a) not the age it has been given by said dealer, b) has history of bad behaviour which has not been disclosed by the dealer, c) is kept on a strict routine that has not been disclosed by the dealer, d) has injuries/hang ups/vices that are not disclosed by the dealer.

 

[Lotty]

I've had a bad experience and we visited the said pony on 6 occasions - pony was doped. I asked evry question mmmmmm maybe when she said she wouldn't loan out for 2weeks I should have refused.

 

[mtj]

Have to say I do not expect to be allowed to have a horse on trial.

But I will ensure i have hacked any horse i buy, the horse will have a 5 stage vetting with bloods (by my vet) and i will ride the horse on the day of vetting. Riding the horse at time of vetting is important as you can check the horse feels the same as when you visited.

If you are too nervous to hack at a buying visit, take someone with you who can hack on your behalf.

No respectable dealer will object to the above.

 

[galaxy]

I've had a bad experience and we visited the said pony on 6 occasions - pony was doped. I asked evry question mmmmmm maybe when she said she wouldn't loan out for 2weeks I should have refused.

I don't think any dealer would allow a trial... As a private seller I'd never allow a trial either. Don't want an injured/ruined pony back!

If it was doped surely it would have come up on the bloods you had taken at the vetting?

 

[Cedars]

Im sure they only take drugs, store them and then check after a problem arises? So you wouldnt know until the problem had arisen.

I agree wholeheartedly, HOWEVER. Its very very easy for one customer with a bad experience to go around and ruin someones business, when actually the man might have had a valid reason for that one experience. Different situation but same thing, our farrier (who is superb, btw, and if anyone wants a farrier in glos let me know) is being badmouthed by an old client (who used to treat him like **** - leave the uncatchable horses in their fields, covered in mud, then go mad if he didnt do them, leave him with her colt unattended who used to rip chunks out of you, no joke) because he didnt sweep down the shed fully, nail left on driveway (nowhere near horses i may add), YO found it and her yard owner complained. Now is that really a reason to ruin someones livelihood? All the rest of us are having to go round bigging him up to counteract it!!!

 

[Pebbles]

I have had a bad experience with a dealer often mentioned on here who several others have suffered at the hands of and the vet who works hand in hand with both him and his associates and had to return my boy after months of wrangling with vet/dealer. I came out of if better off than most people who have a tale to tell but still lost circa £2k which now severely restricts my next buy. Now the long awaited re-advertisment of my horse appears on line, he now has a completely different name and no mention of the surgery he has undergone to rectify his 'problems' which are likely to recur at least, at worst become cancerous! Who signed off the new bogus passport and what about the next poor unsuspecting innocent buyer? It is no wonder most of us want to name and shame, how else can we protect others and ourselves??

 

[Storminateacup]

In total agreement - they should be named and shamed, or praised if good.
See no harm in that HHO.
But its all about political correctness isn't it. Its perfectly ok to stitch someone up financially by selling a very dodgy animal, but it not ok to protest and name the buggers that get away with it. I think this is what a forum is there for, informed discussion and advice , still suppose we can still do it via pms, to some extent. But Yes, I do think we should put up a united front to HHO along with the other nonsense about stopping the the "How much" posts.

 

[brighteyes]

lulu111 - you are right, First Choice have absolutely taken a bashing on this forum more than once. You are obviously royally peed off about that and I can understand why you would be if you are running a legit business. Remember tho, people choose horses, but you can choose the buyer too.

Dealers get a very hard rap in this country (most countries only have dealers, private sales are very rare). Fact is those that buy MUST take a certain amount of responsibility in their choices. Horses can and do change subject to their environment, they are not machines, they are flight animals.

Dealers must be sure that the horses they are selling are fit for purpose - I have no time for dealers who I read have sold a horse on and the horse is a) not the age it has been given by said dealer, b) has history of bad behaviour which has not been disclosed by the dealer, c) is kept on a strict routine that has not been disclosed by the dealer, d) has injuries/hang ups/vices that are not disclosed by the dealer.

Patsy at Stubley Hollow goes to great lengths on her website to emphasise how horses are by nature unpredictable creatures and can't be guaranteed to be completely and utterly safe in all circumstances. She also pleads with people to be honest about their ability and realistic about their ambition. I get the impression she thinks enough about her horses not to sell if she had any doubts about the compatibilty of either.

I have bought off dealers with my eyes wide open. All ponies were sound, and were one still in business (Linda Bryan - anyone know where she is?) I would go back in a flash.

It's really hard to listen to one-sided stories - from dissatisfied buyers or equally-brassed off dealers. I think a half-way house might be the answer. Horses and prospective buyers stay at a mutually strange yard for a week or two, under proper supervision. The horse is fully tried (again under supervision) in all areas and looked after by new 'owner' who would see it at its unsettled worst (new environment) and discover its foibles in the stable, field and under saddle. This would cost, of course, but it might save heartache and one person's word against the others. I really don't think every horse which goes wrong is the dealer's fault nor every buyer as fantastic and capable as they reckon. Therein lies the problem. Many people have unrealistic ideas and sadly there are horse sellers who really ought to be dealing in something else.

 

[martlin]

Patsy at Stubley Hollow goes to great lengths on her website to emphasise how horses are by nature unpredictable creatures and can't be guaranteed to be completely and utterly safe in all circumstances. She also pleads with people to be honest about their ability and realistic about their ambition. I get the impression she thinks enough about her horses not to sell if she had any doubts about the compatibilty of either.

You can only do so much to find out if the prospective buyer is the right match though...
I've been in a position before where somebody rings up (bound for Olympia) about a youngster, comes to try it, doesn't do that well IMO although loves the horse; I get an inkling that it's a partnership bound for disaster rather than Olympia, so suggest that I have something that possibly would suit a bit better... and promptly get accused of trying to sell a dud

Admittedly, I have never had a horse returned to me, but sometimes wonder how people don't even try...