Naming and shaming...

[Lotty]

I don't think any dealer would allow a trial... As a private seller I'd never allow a trial either. Don't want an injured/ruined pony back!

If it was doped surely it would have come up on the bloods you had taken at the vetting?

We were only half an hour away. When a child is involved then you have to be extra careful and my daughter broke her back!

We did take said woman to court and we won. The full amount for the pony and the livery costs as it took her so long to reply to our letters. I paid for the pony in full.....she ended up paying me in installments over 2years - This is a dealer who sells ponies every day!!

 

[tabithakat64]

I agree that these people should be named and shamed.


There is an easy way around this issue without posting anything defamatory which I know sometimes happens anyway.

When people are asking for information on a dealer, they just need to ask for a PM if the response could be termed defamatory and those who PM could respond on the thread saying I've PM'd you with my experience.

I also think that some buyers need to be more honest about their ability.

 

[Clannad48]

Having trawled my way through this thread there is an option which HHO could not possibly complain about (I hope)

Obviously anyone buying any pony horse should bear the old saying CAVEAT EMPTOR in mind and make as many checks as possible.

But how about rather than trying to name and shame which seems to be the major issue, what if everyone put a thread together of all the good, reliable dealers that have personal recommendations. After all there are enough of us on this site to enable a fairly robust combination of recommendations.

Quite often when my daughter is competing we are asked where we got our horse from. I am more than happy to recommend the person we bought from, however I ALWAYS tell people to be honest and open about what they want and how competent they are.

Mind you our previous pony which we bought from a family friend was an absolute angel for my daughter but alwas totally took the p1ss with me and was a total nightmare if I was on her.

 

[Tinypony]

I think the lady from First Choice (she named herself remember) isn't doing herself any favours. Sometimes if a dealer is good, one person comes and says something negative about them, and then a lot more weigh in and say that is rubbish and they are great. Is that what happens with First Choice? I can't be bothered to search. Wild rants on an internet forum wouldn't impress me about any professional I have to say.

 

[lulu111]

I , have read your comments and i do agree with a lot of you in principal.What the problem is that two match a horse and rider is so hard we as dealers have the same snapshot of time as the buyer and to be fair 30mins to and hour is such a short time in comparrison to when the horse leaves , one very very true saying "WHAT DOESNT SUIT ONE WILL ALWAYS SUIT ANOTHER " , this has been proven to me time and time again, i have made mistakes and too many i agree but i am working to improve and change that . To be fair i have had far more happy customers in the last year but i do still have some unhappy one!!!but that is the same in every busisness!! WHAT upsets me with this forum is that some people use it as a weapon which is very unfair , and do lie a lot.I am very strong that i enjoy my horses and take great pleasure in seeing some of them to go on and and transform and do well , i have learnt a lot from my mistakes and am constanley trying to improve which is one of the main reason i have stayed at my yard where i have been for 5 years and hope to continue , i have been lied to many times from dealers myself one of the main reasons that i am now a lot more careful on what i buy and take in also i now have the courage when i see bad riding or a combaination that i can see will not work to ask them in the nicest way i can that its not the horse for them or another quote i have had to use is my horses are not used to that syle of riding and you would not believe how many people take offence and walk away unhappy because i have said this, then come on here and fine a post or start one in revenge its was done only a couple of weeks ago and said i was being bitchy about their riding but it was fair to the horse to ask them to get off as we could see the horse getting stressed as he didnt understand what they were asking so they join the anti first choice !!!! which i dont think is fair i know that this is a problem for every dealer , these days so many people are buying horses because it is cheaper than paying for reqular riding lesson and for that reason alone i have very much so gone into having much quiter types of horses who are maybe greener but are so much better as first horses and road test them for longer and with novices on them as i have found that horses that have been out competing and with more expereniced riders tend to learn there riders weakness and take adavantage because what an irish man and a lot of proffessals says thats is anyones ride is a lot diffrent than the wveryday pleasure rider and that is something i have learned the hard way, like probably a lot of other people too, and what i thought 2 years ago was suitable for a novice maybe wasnt becauseas i have said above horses can be like children very much if they find a weakness in its rider than they try to take advantage and then it can grow into a problem , unless told not to , and it and it really isnt the rider or the dealers fault which is now very much something i have learnt and with horses you can not ever stop learning and i am very much working on improving on the mistakes i have made and to continue selling and for the day to come that you and other people can say with confidence that you have heard good and bad but on the whole go there because they have learnt from their mistakes which is one of the reason im proud to be first choice and hope to be trading for a long time . i hope my writing has improved as well . thankyou

 

[JanetGeorge]

There are good dealers and there are the bad dealers, some buyers go into dealers yards and totally over horse themselves and blame the dealers, some people go into dealers yards fall in love with a horse, buy it and can't ride it. In my opinion in this scenario it is the buyers fault.

I disagree!! When the buyer is inexperienced, then the dealer - as a 'professional' - has a 'duty of care' NOT to sell them a horse they can't ride!

I'm a breeder, not a dealer, but I do sell many of my own youngsters either just backed, or backed and schooled on. I also have a training yard and occasionally have horses in to school onand sell for their owners.

There IS a problem with buyers who think they are more capable than they are, and several occasions I have asked a potential buyer to dismount within a few minutes, and told them the horse wasn't suitable for them and advised them on the type of horse they should be looking for. To have allowed them to continue riding that horse would have menat a certain accident - and no doubt a hit on my insurance. On a couple of occasions, potential buyers have been hell-bent on buying a certain horse - and 1 got very stroppy with me when I declined! But what the hell is the point of selling a horse to an unsuitable buyer?? You have - at least - an unhppy customer and an unhappy horse. At worst, you my find yourself called to a Coroner's Court - as the seller of a horse who killed its owner 4 days after they got it home!!

It's irresponsible - and it's bad business!! And it's sure as hell bad for the horse!

 

[Luci07]

I agree we can't name and shame because of a: dragging this forum into court for slander (or is it defimation - can never remember which is written and which is spoken!) b: there are people who have not had a great experience for all matter of reasons and could greatly damage the reputation of someone who was really trying to be honest. I have also greatly pissed off someone trying to buy my old horse as I felt she was massively overhorsed. She was ranting at me for not selling him (little git didn't put a foot wrong) but I could clearly see that he only had to be a little cocky and she would have been in trouble. However, we do, to a degree, name and shame on this board when we ask people for experiences with named dealers. I personally have been warned off a certain eventing specialist after being privately advised.

 

[Pebbles]

I disagree!! When the buyer is inexperienced, then the dealer - as a 'professional' - has a 'duty of care' NOT to sell them a horse they can't ride!

I'm a breeder, not a dealer, but I do sell many of my own youngsters either just backed, or backed and schooled on. I also have a training yard and occasionally have horses in to school onand sell for their owners.

There IS a problem with buyers who think they are more capable than they are, and several occasions I have asked a potential buyer to dismount within a few minutes, and told them the horse wasn't suitable for them and advised them on the type of horse they should be looking for. To have allowed them to continue riding that horse would have menat a certain accident - and no doubt a hit on my insurance. On a couple of occasions, potential buyers have been hell-bent on buying a certain horse - and 1 got very stroppy with me when I declined! But what the hell is the point of selling a horse to an unsuitable buyer?? You have - at least - an unhppy customer and an unhappy horse. At worst, you my find yourself called to a Coroner's Court - as the seller of a horse who killed its owner 4 days after they got it home!!

It's irresponsible - and it's bad business!! And it's sure as hell bad for the horse!

Very eloquently put and I couldn't agree more

 

[EAST KENT]

Let`s face it,if a horse or pony is a paragon of virtue it would not be for sale through a dealer or market because the present owner would think too much of it and care greatly about it`s future.Paragons can be found,mostly as green but honest youngsters.Some horses have wise and sensible heads on them at four years,but if it is spooky then it will never become an armchair non spooky ride.Sensible horses are born that way in my opinion,and usually you can sense it the minute you sit on them..provided of course they are`nt sedated!
Dealers should try and match up to the buyers needs,and buyers need to be honest about their capabilities too.By the same token I have known some real death trap ponies and horses sold to novices and children..and that is pure evil .One dealer near me,the one that sold me a bad napper "has been driven ,so does`nt know how to nap" also sold a local child a traffic shy pony,the child nearly died. Not funny ,not funny at all!

 

[natalia]

Tricky one, as I know from selling that people often bite off more than they can chew. As a dealer, best thing you can do is offer a weeks money back, we do this, but if the horse is returned retain 10% restocking fee. Only because it makes people think a bit more clearly about what they want and discourages them just "taking on trial". You will ALWAYS get people who try it on after sales, but by offering after sales care (I'll come to you if within reasonable distance) or happy to take horses back for week or two's schooling livery, most of them are shut right up. I'm happy to say I think my horses are also advertised with nothing to hide and warts and all exposed, if you don't like it don't buy. The worst client i have ever had was a customer who bought a very smart 16.1hh skewbald for her daughter, horse was talented, but quirky and sold as a "project" not ready made and client is understanding horse needs careful work and producing, for not much money. After purchase, about 3 months later, they decided he was a bit too much for them and tried to send him back, saying he had been good but not coming on as they hoped. i said I wouldn't buy him back, but happy to take him to either school for a couple of weeks, assess and re sell, or come out to them. they refused. 1 YEAR LATER they played the horse is "unfit for purpose" route as daughter had taken horse to pony club and it had got over excited, reared, bucked and she fell off, because we had a strong receipt, stating the horse was a project, they hadn't got a leg to stand on, however, I'm pretty sure they did enough damage in the mean time slagging us off to all and sundry. Now I try and steer clear of these types altogether, but have one for sale at the moment, lovely horse but has been really mentally messed with, again, being sold cheaply as a project, not ready made ready to compete horse, and his receipt will state so, with all buyers being told in black and white how to ride him on a care sheet to cover my back.

 

[anadain]

Tricky one, as I know from selling that people often bite off more than they can chew. As a dealer, best thing you can do is offer a weeks money back, we do this, but if the horse is returned retain 10% restocking fee. Only because it makes people think a bit more clearly about what they want and discourages them just "taking on trial". You will ALWAYS get people who try it on after sales, but by offering after sales care (I'll come to you if within reasonable distance) or happy to take horses back for week or two's schooling livery, most of them are shut right up. I'm happy to say I think my horses are also advertised with nothing to hide and warts and all exposed, if you don't like it don't buy. The worst client i have ever had was a customer who bought a very smart 16.1hh skewbald for her daughter, horse was talented, but quirky and sold as a "project" not ready made and client is understanding horse needs careful work and producing, for not much money. After purchase, about 3 months later, they decided he was a bit too much for them and tried to send him back, saying he had been good but not coming on as they hoped. i said I wouldn't buy him back, but happy to take him to either school for a couple of weeks, assess and re sell, or come out to them. they refused. 1 YEAR LATER they played the horse is "unfit for purpose" route as daughter had taken horse to pony club and it had got over excited, reared, bucked and she fell off, because we had a strong receipt, stating the horse was a project, they hadn't got a leg to stand on, however, I'm pretty sure they did enough damage in the mean time slagging us off to all and sundry. Now I try and steer clear of these types altogether, but have one for sale at the moment, lovely horse but has been really mentally messed with, again, being sold cheaply as a project, not ready made ready to compete horse, and his receipt will state so, with all buyers being told in black and white how to ride him on a care sheet to cover my back.

This is the right way to do business! Know the horses before you sell them -tell the truth - match the rider and horse as best you can - give a good receipt - then there is no come back at all!

 

[thinlizzy]

i got my current horse on trial from a small dealer -he knew someone i knew very well , let me take horse away for trial for at least two weeks - didnt agree price in all the rush bought him two weeks later and wasnt ripped off wouldve paid more actually we had spent months searching time money and letdowns i think there are two arguments/sides dealers save you time and money you have to know what you want take someone clever with you and get it all in writting you can get bad buys from private sellers too !I have bought ponies years ago from a dealer three at seperate times in my life not a recommended one neither and they were all gems !So it works all ways , they did need feeding up though !

 

[Rach 2010]

I'm new to this but I've had a bad experience with a dealer so I thought I would share my views.

I was looking for a horse last year and saw some lovely horses advertised on horsemart from a dealer. I was very reluctant to go to a dealer but thought well i've never gone to a dealer before so I thought I would give it a go. Having viewed/tried many horses privately which were either not suitable or found in a few cases the owners refused to ride their horses so there was obviously something not quite right there!

Anyway I went to this dealer (naming no names!!) and I was absolutely shocked with what I saw I was told on the phone that they were imported from Holland 2 weeks before being advertised (and were vaccinated and passported) when I actually got there was told they had been imported 2 days prior to me viewing them and they weren't passported or vaccinated! They weren't travelled well as they were battered with various cuts and grazes, they had awful feet, underweight and one had loads of gunk coming out of his eyes which could have been anything from stress through travelling or carrying a virus, etc which could spread should someone buy one and move it to a yard with others horses. The dealer was happy to sell these horses in these conditions. Once I had seen the state of them I knew I wasn't interested in them but I can imagine many people would have bought them as they would have felt sorry for them. Anyway the dealer asked me if I would get on one of them and I refused as I won't ever get on a horse unless I see the owner ride it first (if the owner won't ride it theres good reason!!) so the dealer got on it and immediately the horse was spinning and rearing with no riding hat on the concrete! (May I add that the saddle that was used was the saddle used for ALL of the dealers horses from a 13.2HH pony to a 16.3TB!! (Can't say i'm surprised the horse wasn't happy!)

Dealers like this should be stopped and the only way it seems is for people to name and shame. Most people will be able to work out whether a dealer is good or bad and its the buyers experience which counts. The key is if you have any doubts about a dealer then do some research to confirm either way if your just not sure or as in my case I could see this was a bad dealer then its best to leave it! The dealer didn't care about the horses welfare or safety for members of the public trying their horses with tack that didn't fit. As with anything in the horse world you get good/bad saddlers, vets, dentists, etc. It is unfortunate that one bad dealer can ruin it for the good dealers out there but it's not a perfect world. Even if you have concerns about a dealer I mean who actually cares about the horses welfare apart from genuine potential buyers?!!

I think dealers should have a licence which enables them to buy and sell horses then they should have their licence reviewed on an annual basis with random spot checks done to ensure horses are well kept. Spot checks should be done from checking the horses general health, how its kept, passports checked even their tack checked. Buyers should be allowed trials with the horse staying with the dealer to confirm suitability and if the dealer or buyer has any doubts then the sale should not go through. Again in an ideal world!! When buying a horse from a dealer or a private seller you should always get a written receipt stating what the horse has done e.g. XC, SJ, Dressage, etc as well as the dealer detailing any vices known as well as a vetting to prove it's not been doped, and is physically fit for the purpose intended.

When I bought my boy it was SO stressful it is a complete nightmare trying to work out which sellers are telling the truth you can't really be 100% sure until you've brought the horse home at which point its too late. The best thing is to try the horse as much as you can I tried my boy 3 times before I had him vetted! If the seller has nothing to hide then they will be more than willing for you to come up and try the horse on different days in different situations.

Sorry for my essay! Kind of went on a tangent! Buy hey ho it my first post!