Napping success stories please

[[59668]]

So my rising 6yo's napping problem seems to be getting worse. Had him 7 weeks now. He is totally fine and happy to walk up to the arena and work in there but the napping hacking was just awful today. We were in company too it just doesn't seem to make any difference.
Seems to be worse going around our 1 hour loop in one direction...the other way round once we are out the gate he seems fine. The way he doesnt like has the "spookier" parts to do first. But he naps even just getting out the gate every time now.
He has never "got away with it". Does it alone and in company. Gets loads of praise when he does go forward. Doesn't get beaten up I don't carry a stick. It's starting to get me down.
Once we got past the first quarter of the hack today he was a joy....relaxed and bold and happy and leading the way. Makes no sense to me.
Does anyone have any success stories or am I now stuck with a very expensive 5yo that naps?! I'm also freaking myself out now with "what if he won't leave the start box" etc.

 

[Auslander]

One good well timed smack might do the trick. It's not "beating a horse up" to tell it once, firmly, that napping isn't acceptable. Sitting out a determined nap isn't really teaching the horse that you won't put up with it - he's going when he feels like it, rather than when you tell him to!
I'll put up with many things, but napping ain't one of them

 

[rextherobber]

I had one which napped/planted. Smacking her made her rear, reversing her made her rear, you had to sit it out. She napped at the drop of a hat, literally entering the yard, within sight of the yard coming back from a hack, entering her stable, leaving her stable. She was a complete pita! She grew out of it, at the time it seemed to go on forever, looking back, was all over with in weeks. Also 5, also new purchase. Good luck!

 

[Skib]

I ride a mare celebrated for napping. I use the Mark Rashid remedy. It is the 13 minute rule that a horse 's brain takes 13 minutes to work somethig out. He says that most humans will wait only 9 minutes. I dont think I had to wait 9 minutes before she decided to walk on. It happened twice out hacking. The next time she stopped, I said to her, You know what we do when . . . and she walked on. I was taken by surprise but I experimented later and discovered that the phrase "You know what we do . . ." was an effective order when we had any difference of opinion. It was the same with a previous share of mine. If she didnt stand still to be groomed I would threaten to fetch a head collar. "You know what we do. . ." worked a charm with her too. After the first few times, I never had to fetch the collar.
This works for me because I tend to be conversational with horses. Other riders will need to change the words. Or use their stick. I am of the old and doddery school.
It also occurs to me that I have never ever praised a horse for overcoming a napping episode.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Do you just walk in the scary bit?? If you do a brisk trot may help.

 

[[59668]]

Do you just walk in the scary bit?? If you do a brisk trot may help.

Hmm it would be hard. He slams on the brakes and spins. Or runs backwards if I manage to catch him and keep him facing forward.

 

[cauda equina]

Would it be feasible to get off and lead him when he naps, and get on again once you're past the sticking place?

 

[Petmurf]

You could try walking him in hand for a while or do what I do and tell him if he wants to spin then we’ll keep spinning so I turn him in small circles, after about the second circle he must think sod this it’s easier to walk forwards. You’ll get there, my boy was a nightmare for napping every where, for a good month or so I spent most the time in the middle of the arena as he napped into the centre so I just calmly said OK you want to do circles let’s do circles, he soon stopped that napping. I can now feel or notice the signs of him thinking about napping so I say out loud in a disappointed tone Nope don’t even think about it and he doesn’t , my YO took him out on Wednesday and apparently he was a napping nightmare, I rode him yesterday and he was an angel, he isn’t dangerous just a cheeky opportunist so you need to make the right way easy and the wrong way harder work for him

 

[[59668]]

Would it be feasible to get off and lead him when he naps, and get on again once you're past the sticking place?

In theory....but he's 16.3! So might be tricky.
I'm thinking I might take him out in hand to investigate the sticky area.
But I'm just not sure because it's his default when something is worrying....so I do need to find something that works from the saddle. He does need to learn that turning or backwards is not the answer.

 

[[59668]]

You could try walking him in hand for a while or do what I do and tell him if he wants to spin then we’ll keep spinning so I turn him in small circles, after about the second circle he must think sod this it’s easier to walk forwards. You’ll get there, my boy was a nightmare for napping every where, for a good month or so I spent most the time in the middle of the arena as he napped into the centre so I just calmly said OK you want to do circles let’s do circles, he soon stopped that napping. I can now feel or notice the signs of him thinking about napping so I say out loud in a disappointed tone Nope don’t even think about it and he doesn’t , my YO took him out on Wednesday and apparently he was a napping nightmare, I rode him yesterday and he was an angel, he isn’t dangerous just a cheeky opportunist so you need to make the right way easy and the wrong way harder work for him

I'm thinking of trying circles. He always spins right, so circles to the left should be the hardest thing for him.
Also maybe just reversing....OK you want to go backwards we go backwards but in the direction I want.

 

[GinaGeo]

My now six year old went through a nappy phase.

It was really a lack of confidence, and has taken a long time to truly overcome it.

If you added pressure he would really escalate it. The nap was really his flight reaction screaming “get out of here” and became a fight reaction if leaving wasn’t allowed.

The easiest way of dealing with it was to get off and lead him past whatever scary thing he had identified and then remount. Never had to do this with any other horse. But once he’d said no, he would convince himself going onwards meant a grizzly death and no level of coercing would convince him otherwise. Getting off proved I wasn’t concerned and built confidence that the scary things weren’t as much a threat as he believed.

Once he’d gained confidence that I would support him and get off and hold his hand if necessary, we worked hard on stopping and thinking. Draw reins were used to stop the spin response as he had to lift his neck to do it. And he learned to stop, look and then one step at a time walk on past, without me needing to dismount. However, if I needed to, I would have. Knowing that option was there meant he never got pushed past his limitation.

He now marches onwards on a loose rein and a click and a nonchalant “come on, show me how brave you are”, usually works. I haven’t had to get off in ages.

I ignore scary things, but will support him if I need to.

Waiting him out didn’t work, because the longer he stood there the more upset he got. And forceful riding just escalated him further. He needed me to step up as a team leader and lead from the front, just whilst he figured out it wasn’t actually dangerous.

It wasn’t ever really an issue at the long reining stage, but we did go back to long reining for a few weeks too. He was backed during Covid lockdowns and our in hand and long lining adventures were somewhat curtailed as a result of limited options from home. In the past we’ve boxed horses up to new hacking places at that stage, but he missed out on that. It came back to bite me a little!

 

[rextherobber]

Groundwork is also really helpful, I did a lot with mine, I also struggled to get back on, so establishing that I could be trusted on the ground first was invaluable

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Probably get shot down for this, but if its only this bit that's spoiling your otherwise lovely ride, could you walk in hand to just past the scary bit a few times to a waiting feed bowl.not sure how far scary bit is. Do it a few times in hand then hopefully once your mounted he will look forward to the feed rather than the scary stuff. Then once confident take feed away and let him have a bit if grass or some as a reward. We had a wild pony once to break in. Got him going lovely at home but Leadhills out we found he hated black bin bags. OH walked fair way in front and popped a bit of apple on top of bags. By the time we had gone round the block he was black bin bag proof!!

 

[[59668]]

My now six year old went through a nappy phase.

It was really a lack of confidence, and has taken a long time to truly overcome it.

If you added pressure he would really escalate it. The nap was really his flight reaction screaming “get out of here” and became a fight reaction if leaving wasn’t allowed.

The easiest way of dealing with it was to get off and lead him past whatever scary thing he had identified and then remount. Never had to do this with any other horse. But once he’d said no, he would convince himself going onwards meant a grizzly death and no level of coercing would convince him otherwise. Getting off proved I wasn’t concerned and built confidence that the scary things weren’t as much a threat as he believed.

Once he’d gained confidence that I would support him and get off and hold his hand if necessary, we worked hard on stopping and thinking. Draw reins were used to stop the spin response as he had to lift his neck to do it. And he learned to stop, look and then one step at a time walk on past, without me needing to dismount. However, if I needed to, I would have. Knowing that option was there meant he never got pushed past his limitation.

He now marches onwards on a loose rein and a click and a nonchalant “come on, show me how brave you are”, usually works. I haven’t had to get off in ages.

I ignore scary things, but will support him if I need to.

Waiting him out didn’t work, because the longer he stood there the more upset he got. And forceful riding just escalated him further. He needed me to step up as a team leader and lead from the front, just whilst he figured out it wasn’t actually dangerous.

It wasn’t ever really an issue at the long reining stage, but we did go back to long reining for a few weeks too. He was backed during Covid lockdowns and our in hand and long lining adventures were somewhat curtailed as a result of limited options from home. In the past we’ve boxed horses up to new hacking places at that stage, but he missed out on that. It came back to bite me a little!

Thank you! This sounds so much like my Lad. I think I will walk him to it in hand tomorrow with pocket full of sweets.

 

[[59668]]

Probably get shot down for this, but if its only this bit that's spoiling your otherwise lovely ride, could you walk in hand to just past the scary bit a few times to a waiting feed bowl.not sure how far scary bit is. Do it a few times in hand then hopefully once your mounted he will look forward to the feed rather than the scary stuff. Then once confident take feed away and let him have a bit if grass or some as a reward. We had a wild pony once to break in. Got him going lovely at home but Leadhills out we found he hated black bin bags. OH walked fair way in front and popped a bit of apple on top of bags. By the time we had gone round the block he was black bin bag proof!!

It genuinely is only this bit and I think he naps when we turn left cos he knows this bit comes next.
I love the apple idea.
I think I will take him out in hand with a pocket full of sweets.

 

[scats]

I’ve got a nappy planter who will rear if any form of force is put on via leg or whip. She did this alone or in company and it didn’t matter if she was on her way out hacking or on the way home. She would suddenly plant and then stand up if I put any leg on.
I now have got her hacking happily alone and in company. I’ve done it via initially hopping off, leading her a few yards and popping back on. Seemed to just appease her and she’d continue on no fuss. Now I have got it to the point that if she stops, I take all pressure off and let her have a few moments, then I wiggle in my saddle. If she doesn’t go, I stop and leave her alone again, then wiggle some more. It works. I have no idea why.

 

[[59668]]

I’ve got a nappy planter who will rear if any form of force is put on via leg or whip. She did this alone or in company and it didn’t matter if she was on her way out hacking or on the way home. She would suddenly plant and then stand up if I put any leg on.
I now have got her hacking happily alone and in company. I’ve done it via initially hopping off, leading her a few yards and popping back on. Seemed to just appease her and she’d continue on no fuss. Now I have got it to the point that if she stops, I take all pressure off and let her have a few moments, then I wiggle in my saddle. If she doesn’t go, I stop and leave her alone again, then wiggle some more. It works. I have no idea why.

I guess it's literally trial and error. He turns and sometimes runs backwards.

 

[Horses_Rule]

Try long reining him? If the napping is due to a confidence issue that will potentially help. I do tonnes and tonnes of it with my young ones and it can make even the wimpy ones braver

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It sounds like new young horse napping and a lack of confidence, I would take a step back and hand walk him on the same short route for a week then try the same ridden.

I did this with my nappy one his a bit different as in he was never hacked as a young horse I got him at 9 and he just wouldn't go anywhere to start with, he will spin run backwards as fast as he can go forward and will rear if pushed, so I just try and make it easy and nice for him so it's always positive as he gets very upset easily so I just get off if he starts.

His 17 now and has got better over the years and I can get him out alone for a short hack on a route he knows, his generally fine in company so I'm happy with that I think its about as good as his gonna get.

 

[skint1]

My ID mare can be nappy, I am old and doddery and a lot better on the ground, I do think she'd probably buck if I pushed her under saddle and I probably wouldn't sit it too well. Anyway, for various reasons I haven't been able to ride her for a long while so I had time to do this, but I did a combination of waiting her out and just keep turning her round to the way I wanted, or, as I got better, anticipating and kind of keeping her going forward and praising and kind of slowly extending our comfort zone. We did pretty well last year, but I didn't test this under saddle. I am hoping (probably wrongly) that if I can iron that all out in-hand/long lining, I will have established it before trying to ride her again. So, you could try in-hand/long lining to build confidence and establish the rules a bit between you. I really like Skib's idea too, I could see that working for my horse, she responds well to verbal cues.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

Loads of brilliant ideas - different things work for different horses / situations / riders. Also depends on facilities, traffic, daylight etc etc.
As for success stories I had a nappy, rearer who turned into a fantastic show jumper competing all over the country and then became a totally honest schoolmaster.
Keep trying until you find what works for you. Good luck.

 

[LEC]

One good well timed smack might do the trick. It's not "beating a horse up" to tell it once, firmly, that napping isn't acceptable. Sitting out a determined nap isn't really teaching the horse that you won't put up with it - he's going when he feels like it, rather than when you tell him to!
I'll put up with many things, but napping ain't one of them

Worst thing possible to do on a horse which is yelling at you that it’s really anxious and worried which is what napping is.

 

[[59668]]

Worst thing possible to do on a horse which is yelling at you that it’s really anxious and worried which is what napping is.

Thank you I agree. I won't get after him don't worry

 

[SEL]

If you're out with others can any of them pop you on a lead rein? We did this with mine when she was napping as a youngster (& she would run backwards into anything). Lead was kept loose until she went backwards and just gentle pressure applied. Only needed to do it a few times to get past the sticky bit then she was fine.

 

[Auslander]

Worst thing possible to do on a horse which is yelling at you that it’s really anxious and worried which is what napping is.

I think we'll have to beg to differ there. Horses don't always follow the same script. Ride the horse you're on...I was responding to what the OP said about her specific situation/horse.
Obviously I'm not a monster who batters every horse I ride. I will sit quietly and let a young horse work something out til the cows come home - but actual napping, ie; saying No, is not something I want a big strong youngster learning is an option

 

[LEC]

So my rising 6yo's napping problem seems to be getting worse. Had him 7 weeks now. He is totally fine and happy to walk up to the arena and work in there but the napping hacking was just awful today. We were in company too it just doesn't seem to make any difference.
Seems to be worse going around our 1 hour loop in one direction...the other way round once we are out the gate he seems fine. The way he doesnt like has the "spookier" parts to do first. But he naps even just getting out the gate every time now.
He has never "got away with it". Does it alone and in company. Gets loads of praise when he does go forward. Doesn't get beaten up I don't carry a stick. It's starting to get me down.
Once we got past the first quarter of the hack today he was a joy....relaxed and bold and happy and leading the way. Makes no sense to me.
Does anyone have any success stories or am I now stuck with a very expensive 5yo that naps?! I'm also freaking myself out now with "what if he won't leave the start box" etc.

I have had a lot of nappy eventers and all have left the start box fine. So don’t worry about that.
I don’t normally answer queries like this as I am lazy and it takes to much effort and doesn’t often cover nuances.
I have had homebreds I have backed who will only go on certain rides, horses who won’t leave the yard etc. I have ended up in ditches on nappy horses and now I am pretty good at solving the issue.
I always carry a schooling whip as it’s a useful tool to direct the hind legs, or get a reaction with out smacking. It’s more of a flick.
Napping pretty much occurs in the first 15 mins. It’s rare for it to happen further on. Usually something triggers their anxiety.
1) reversing is a really useful tool - I use reversing a lot to get past objects, move closer to objects etc. I also find it hard work for them and it switches their brain into thinking again rather than just being mentally blocked. If they are being really bad I have reversed for a fair way. I reverse, turn round and ask for forwards and if no forwards reverse again. What I find is they almost get comfort frkm
2) if it’s not safe to reverse and they are being horrendous going past something then I now get off. Horses get comfort following you and you are only 7 weeks into your relationship with each other so give them trust by being their leader. A lot of people think getting off is giving in but I have discovered it actually works the opposite way. It gives them confidence.
3) if they are planting move the feet. I tend to ask for small circles either way as they will always try and block on one rein over the other. If really blocking and you don’t like rearing horses just keep asking on the good rein. Circle then ask for forwards even a step is forwards praise and ask for forwards again. If nothing circle.
4) teach them to touch and sniff scary objects. This is time consuming but if they are worried about something I will quite happily teach them to touch and sniff. You might inch forwards very slowly but when close teach them to touch and sniff and praise them. It teaches them to be braver. They also get better at problem solving.
5) it doesn’t matter how slow it is as long as they are moving forwards. I will ask for a step forwards if they give it to me then I tend to sit quiet, let them absorb it and then ask again. This is where the schooling whip often comes in as useful to give them a flick to move one hind leg forwards. Gradually this will get better and better. Mine will now creep towards something they are not sure of but they get better at problem solving and being more confident.
6) rearing is a reaction because you are not listening to them. Horses tend to send out clear messages but humans often ignore them so they send louder messages. I tend to ask a different question to diffuse them.
7) they are often better being boxed up and hacked out than leaving home. My two have taken months to leave the new yard alone but it was a dangerous situation with big ditches either side and busy with traffic so not great for sorting out the issue. Everytime a car would come and it’s not a very wide road or they would be arguing and edging towards the ditch. So instead I just didn’t do anything that made them uncomfortable and avoided the issue. Horses aren’t like humans. They don’t think oh I got away with that and will forever more. Instead horses are like money jars. The more coins you put in and the less you remove the better.
Anyway hope this helps and gives you some tools. I personally love Warwick Schiller and he can be found on YouTube.

 

[Goldenstar]

Does he nap if you lead him from another horse ?

 

[lannerch]

Worst thing possible to do on a horse which is yelling at you that it’s really anxious and worried which is what napping is.

You say that but my horse can nap half the ride only, she will not go forward unless tucked up her friends bottom as if she’s scared , the second half ( a circular route ) she suddenly finds bravery and will waltz off all by herself way off in front past everything brave as a lion. ( Also a youngster rising 5 )

 

[[59668]]

I have had a lot of nappy eventers and all have left the start box fine. So don’t worry about that.
I don’t normally answer queries like this as I am lazy and it takes to much effort and doesn’t often cover nuances.
I have had homebreds I have backed who will only go on certain rides, horses who won’t leave the yard etc. I have ended up in ditches on nappy horses and now I am pretty good at solving the issue.
I always carry a schooling whip as it’s a useful tool to direct the hind legs, or get a reaction with out smacking. It’s more of a flick.
Napping pretty much occurs in the first 15 mins. It’s rare for it to happen further on. Usually something triggers their anxiety.
1) reversing is a really useful tool - I use reversing a lot to get past objects, move closer to objects etc. I also find it hard work for them and it switches their brain into thinking again rather than just being mentally blocked. If they are being really bad I have reversed for a fair way. I reverse, turn round and ask for forwards and if no forwards reverse again. What I find is they almost get comfort frkm
2) if it’s not safe to reverse and they are being horrendous going past something then I now get off. Horses get comfort following you and you are only 7 weeks into your relationship with each other so give them trust by being their leader. A lot of people think getting off is giving in but I have discovered it actually works the opposite way. It gives them confidence.
3) if they are planting move the feet. I tend to ask for small circles either way as they will always try and block on one rein over the other. If really blocking and you don’t like rearing horses just keep asking on the good rein. Circle then ask for forwards even a step is forwards praise and ask for forwards again. If nothing circle.
4) teach them to touch and sniff scary objects. This is time consuming but if they are worried about something I will quite happily teach them to touch and sniff. You might inch forwards very slowly but when close teach them to touch and sniff and praise them. It teaches them to be braver. They also get better at problem solving.
5) it doesn’t matter how slow it is as long as they are moving forwards. I will ask for a step forwards if they give it to me then I tend to sit quiet, let them absorb it and then ask again. This is where the schooling whip often comes in as useful to give them a flick to move one hind leg forwards. Gradually this will get better and better. Mine will now creep towards something they are not sure of but they get better at problem solving and being more confident.
6) rearing is a reaction because you are not listening to them. Horses tend to send out clear messages but humans often ignore them so they send louder messages. I tend to ask a different question to diffuse them.
7) they are often better being boxed up and hacked out than leaving home. My two have taken months to leave the new yard alone but it was a dangerous situation with big ditches either side and busy with traffic so not great for sorting out the issue. Everytime a car would come and it’s not a very wide road or they would be arguing and edging towards the ditch. So instead I just didn’t do anything that made them uncomfortable and avoided the issue. Horses aren’t like humans. They don’t think oh I got away with that and will forever more. Instead horses are like money jars. The more coins you put in and the less you remove the better.
Anyway hope this helps and gives you some tools. I personally love Warwick Schiller and he can be found on YouTube.

Thanks so much for this reply. I'm actually working on the touching objects part with him...he touches, he gets a treat and scratches.
I do really like Warwick Schiller too but I don't find him so useful for this sort of thing tbh. His answer would be "if your relationship is right the horse wont nap" but I just honestly don't think that's always the case!

 

[LEC]

Thanks so much for this reply. I'm actually working on the touching objects part with him...he touches, he gets a treat and scratches.
I do really like Warwick Schiller too but I don't find him so useful for this sort of thing tbh. His answer would be "if your relationship is right the horse wont nap" but I just honestly don't think that's always the case!

Watch his earlier videos which are a bit more practical on YouTube. Don’t get me wrong I like a good relationship with my horses as vital for eventing but I still need to be practical about it. I did have one 3yo that I broke in which couldn’t find easy rest so I did actually spend some time on that. They have to learn to relax and I find sport horses not very good at it as after all bred to be active. Sporthorses move fast but think slow so this is what I spend quite a lot of time on - getting them to problem solve better. I actually have changed the way I start them xc schooling with this in mind and now start them on a rope halter so they can figure out their footwork and learn to drop their head and relax about problem solving. Napping is similar it’s about getting them to problem solve quickly but being athletic horses they tend to hit the extreme reaction button quicker than a cob because they find it easy and naturally have more energy. I consider hacking as exercise and properception/problem solving work so spend a lot of time educating and if I only make it 100m down the road but they 100m they have figured stuff out and got better then I take that