Napping success stories please

[mini_b]

horses are like money jars. The more coins you put in and the less you remove the better.

absolutely LOVE this - thank you

 

[LEC]

My final thought is you need to completely let go of the front end - reins on the buckle. I have an amazing video of Jason Webb sorting out a friends nappy horse who was quite extreme. Lots of circles to keep turning them and disengage the hind leg then ask for forwards on a completely loose rein. I find it really interesting as my well behaved eventer is less spooky hacking with no bridle. She can be quite a sharp spooky little thing but is much less so with no bridle.

 

[LEC]

You say that but my horse can nap half the ride only, she will not go forward unless tucked up her friends bottom as if she’s scared , the second half ( a circular route ) she suddenly finds bravery and will waltz off all by herself way off in front past everything brave as a lion. ( Also a youngster rising 5 )

Some of this will be natural endorphins/lower heart rate which promote less anxiety. Some of this might be feeding off you as well as alert to humans and some of this will be getting comfort off the other horse until they make the switch that it’s ok especially if they are not natural leaders.
Interesting my most nappy horses have been bottom of the pecking order. In the field they look very much to the other horses to work out what they should be doing. So this is just a thought, I do wonder if it’s because they don’t think for themselves that much? My alpha mare is highly alert and thinking all the time. The bottom of the pecking order horse I don’t think thinks at all as the others higher up have done it all. It’s also that horse which has been the most nappy. She is very sweet and a lovely person. Homebred and broken by me so I know her complete history.

 

[[59668]]

Watch his earlier videos which are a bit more practical on YouTube. Don’t get me wrong I like a good relationship with my horses as vital for eventing but I still need to be practical about it. I did have one 3yo that I broke in which couldn’t find easy rest so I did actually spend some time on that. They have to learn to relax and I find sport horses not very good at it as after all bred to be active. Sporthorses move fast but think slow so this is what I spend quite a lot of time on - getting them to problem solve better. I actually have changed the way I start them xc schooling with this in mind and now start them on a rope halter so they can figure out their footwork and learn to drop their head and relax about problem solving. Napping is similar it’s about getting them to problem solve quickly but being athletic horses they tend to hit the extreme reaction button quicker than a cob because they find it easy and naturally have more energy. I consider hacking as exercise and properception/problem solving work so spend a lot of time educating and if I only make it 100m down the road but they 100m they have figured stuff out and got better then I take that

Oh gosh I love this!!! You sound like you have the same ideas about balance as I am after.
Today I took him out the spooky way in hand and just let him take all the time he needed. Only rule was face the right way and move forward when ready. We went back and forth for an hour or so, grazing, target practising things for a treat....exactly what you said. He needs to learn he can stop and think for as long as he needs but then the answer has to be forward. Even one step.

 

[[59668]]

My final thought is you need to completely let go of the front end - reins on the buckle. I have an amazing video of Jason Webb sorting out a friends nappy horse who was quite extreme. Lots of circles to keep turning them and disengage the hind leg then ask for forwards on a completely loose rein. I find it really interesting as my well behaved eventer is less spooky hacking with no bridle. She can be quite a sharp spooky little thing but is much less so with no bridle.

I actually used to live next door to Jason! I just sometimes find his methods a little too...busy....for me particularly.

 

[spacefaer]

For those of you suggesting long reining or leading, please make sure you're going to be in control.
A couple of years ago, I got off to lead a young horse past a scary barking dog, he shot forward unexpectedly, caught my right foot with his left hind, felled me and I was dragged up the road for some distance before I let go. Luckily he stopped after about 100 yards and I managed to catch him before he hit the main A road but I'll endure a lot before I get off and lead again.
You're both a lot safer with the rider on board.

 

[lannerch]

Some of this will be natural endorphins/lower heart rate which promote less anxiety. Some of this might be feeding off you as well as alert to humans and some of this will be getting comfort off the other horse until they make the switch that it’s ok especially if they are not natural leaders.
Interesting my most nappy horses have been bottom of the pecking order. In the field they look very much to the other horses to work out what they should be doing. So this is just a thought, I do wonder if it’s because they don’t think for themselves that much? My alpha mare is highly alert and thinking all the time. The bottom of the pecking order horse I don’t think thinks at all as the others higher up have done it all. It’s also that horse which has been the most nappy. She is very sweet and a lovely person. Homebred and broken by me so I know her complete history.

Interestingly she has always been high up in pecking order in the field the boss or next but.
She is also very brave off road by herself or in company so I think the noise on the road is an issue . Thank you for your insight really interesting. Now you’ve made me think about it, I’ve just purchased a noise reduction hood to see if that helps.

 

[Skib]

Interesting. Thank you. My napper is also the lead mare on the yard. Very brave and observant. Doesnt spook.

 

[McGrools]

[QUOTE="LEC, post: 14856024, member: 40979"
Interesting my most nappy horses have been bottom of the pecking order. In the field they look very much to the other horses to work out what they should be doing. So this is just a thought, I do wonder if it’s because they don’t think for themselves that much? My alpha mare is highly alert and thinking all the time. The bottom of the pecking order horse I don’t think thinks at all as the others higher up have done it all. It’s also that horse which has been the most nappy. She is very sweet and a lovely person. Homebred and broken by me so I know her complete history.[/QUOTE]

thats interesting LEC. The 2 nappy mares i have had both were a bit overhandled as foals and both bottom of the pecking order in the herd.
they both just seem to not understand how to ‘horse’ well. The current mare hides her anxieties well as she comes across as a bolshy madam but i suspect is a bit of a slow thinker.

 

[[59668]]

An update. I don't think he's napping like napping to home. I think it's genuine worry and spook and possibly he's been forced to GO in the past and doesn't know how to stop and think.
I've managed to book Michael Peace for next week! And have a lesson this Friday with my instructor.
In other news he's going wonderfully in the arena!

 

[Tarragon]

I am envious of your session with Michael Peace - I think he is great!

 

[[59668]]

I am envious of your session with Michael Peace - I think he is great!

I'm so excited to work with him.

 

[Birker2020]

Warwick Schiller videos on You Tube are really good, my friend showed them me on her phone the other day.

 

[Muddywellies]

It's taken my horse a long time to stop napping, and a lot of intervention from my trainer. No quick fixes, just consistent work, setting boundaries and building confidence.

 

[[59668]]

It's taken my horse a long time to stop napping, and a lot of intervention from my trainer. No quick fixes, just consistent work, setting boundaries and building confidence.

Yeah as I said I don't think he is napping to somewhere or someone. He is anxious and worried and this is his reaction. I'm hoping Michael can give us some tools to help him stop and think.
Having said that... did the spooky route yesterday and not a hint of a nap!!

 

[SheriffTruman]

Having said that... did the spooky route yesterday and not a hint of a nap!!

That's good news! And, Michael Peace! He'll be certain to help you out, I think. I'm a big fan of his approach (as seen on the interwebs) and not at all jealous.

I have done different things with different horses. One I trotted along the nappy spots, the sooner we were past, the better it went. Another one, I had to spin, because otherwise he would just back up, even if it would land us in a ditch or into the water. So spinning it was, until he went forward again. Also leading on foot, if I felt the horse needed more reassurance for me.

Mark Rashid's idea as described above also does appeal to me. Maybe just giving the horse the time it needs, might do the trick. I may give that a try next time I need it.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Aware this is an older post. Really interesting to read all the comments though

I have a rising 5yo mare, I’ve noticed at home she naps to the horses at the side of the arena. She doesn’t plant, just refuses to go forward properly. Yet is willing to fly back towards them down one of the long sides.. grrrr, hoping she’ll grow out of it. Today there is a new horse next to the arena and she bucked a few times when I asked her to go away from it. She isn’t like it away from home. Horses, eh

 

[exracehorse]

Aware this is an older post. Really interesting to read all the comments though

I have a rising 5yo mare, I’ve noticed at home she naps to the horses at the side of the arena. She doesn’t plant, just refuses to go forward properly. Yet is willing to fly back towards them down one of the long sides.. grrrr, hoping she’ll grow out of it. Today there is a new horse next to the arena and she bucked a few times when I asked her to go away from it. She isn’t like it away from home. Horses, eh

If I have a nappy horse. I get on and literally trot them out of the yard. With a crop as back up. And kept going until I feel them wanting to slow. Them I will let them walk. It’s usually the first ten min that they will throw the toys out of the pram.

 

[Caol Ila]

After reading this thread, I want LEC to come to my yard and help find a way through Fin’s issues.

 

[Miss_Millie]

This video is the best advice I have ever seen about how to help a horse who lacks confidence trail riding:

 

[Caol Ila]

Great video, but I would love to see Warwick have a video showing what he does when things go sideways. Most of his videos show him working fairly finished horses and explaining what he does, which is great, but have you found any videos of him working through stuff with a rank horse?

Fin goes from fine to threshold so fast.... that's how we get into trouble. He can bimble along, nice and relaxed, then see something and go into freeze-flight mode before you can do anything other than manage that situation.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

If I have a nappy horse. I get on and literally trot them out of the yard. With a crop as back up. And kept going until I feel them wanting to slow. Them I will let them walk. It’s usually the first ten min that they will throw the toys out of the pram.

It’s not really to bad hacking, and I can’t trot because it’s very steep (muddy, slippy) slopes. It’s mostly in the arena, napping to one side because of the ponies next door. I did do that today, just got her moving forward. After about 10 minutes she did relax and work nicer.

 

[stangs]

Great video, but I would love to see Warwick have a video showing what he does when things go sideways. Most of his videos show him working fairly finished horses and explaining what he does, which is great, but have you found any videos of him working through stuff with a rank horse?

Fin goes from fine to threshold so fast.... that's how we get into trouble. He can bimble along, nice and relaxed, then see something and go into freeze-flight mode before you can do anything other than manage that situation.

Can’t imagine him, or most of the alternative folks, showing a video of what to do when things go wrong because their whole ethos is trying not to let things get to that point. Lots about not getting to threshold, not much on getting back down. And it’s a huge faux pas to show videos of training horses at threshold too.

In your case, I reckon he’d say that Fin’s thoughts are leaving you, so back to groundwork you go to establish that trust / connection / mirroring / etc. Or something along those lines.

He did do a video with a Brumby the other day though which was less polished than the usual stuff. Not relevant to napping but you might see some similarities with Fin?

 

[DabDab]

Great video, but I would love to see Warwick have a video showing what he does when things go sideways. Most of his videos show him working fairly finished horses and explaining what he does, which is great, but have you found any videos of him working through stuff with a rank horse?

Fin goes from fine to threshold so fast.... that's how we get into trouble. He can bimble along, nice and relaxed, then see something and go into freeze-flight mode before you can do anything other than manage that situation.

That's all you can do though, just manage the situation when it happens. Help him through it enough times and he will gradually get less reactive and better able to deal with it himself. Doing stuff to continually strengthen your working relationship with him will usually help too in the general sense of him working out how and when to trust you and how you communicate with each other. But there's no magic technique for dealing with napping, lots of things work for different people and different horses and different situations. The best trainers I've ever met have a very broad toolkit for when things go wrong, so it would be hard to make a video on it I imagine.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Agree with DabDab I can't push mine and force him he will get into a state and fling himself around half rear buck, and his agile so it wouldn't take much for him to un seat me, plus it's not enjoyable for either of us and I think a nice experience is much better or they associate going out with it being horrible.

You have to just find what works with you and your horse they are all different, if I gave mine a sharp smack I would be launched into orbit his a sharp opinionated Arab it just won't work?

Put him in an arena and school him he will happily go all day and is fairly easy.