googol
Well-Known Member
What's it mean for a horse to break down? Excuse my ignorance
National Day Is Upon Us
- Thread starter Elf On A Shelf
- Start date
teapot
Well-Known Member
Do a leg/tendon irreparably - ie they're unfixable. Doesn't need to be anywhere fences for it to happen either.
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Elf On A Shelf
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Statistically only 0.2% of horses in training will lose their life each year. A very, very low number. That's far far less than the number of horses who die in their fields and could potentially wait for hours to be dealt with.
I am interested - does anyone keep a tally of the number of horses that die on the cross country courses each year? Or out hunting?
No one likes to see a horse lose its life and as a stable lass who has looked after a horse that I had to collect the bridle from I can assure you it is even more devastating for us! We are the ones who have lost a friend, Noble steed and trusted warrior. We take our horses to the track with pride and only ever wish for them to come home safe.
I am interested - does anyone keep a tally of the number of horses that die on the cross country courses each year? Or out hunting?
No one likes to see a horse lose its life and as a stable lass who has looked after a horse that I had to collect the bridle from I can assure you it is even more devastating for us! We are the ones who have lost a friend, Noble steed and trusted warrior. We take our horses to the track with pride and only ever wish for them to come home safe.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
If you want to state percentages, a horse at pony club camp recently had fatal colic and had to wait 3+hrs with its small owner fully aware of what was going on while a vet could get there. That is 1 out of 20 horse so could say a 5% loss risk?? I know which animal suffered most compared to the incredibly high welfare standards racehorses enjoy.
Nicnac
Well-Known Member
Eventing far worse as people are killed... When was the last time a jockey was killed whilst racing? I abhor horse deaths but still put humans above horses.
Although the GN made me squirm a few times with the falls it was an amazing race. Loved watching the riderless horse who kept up with the field and jumped beautifully showing how us as riders hinder our horses a lot of the time.
Although the GN made me squirm a few times with the falls it was an amazing race. Loved watching the riderless horse who kept up with the field and jumped beautifully showing how us as riders hinder our horses a lot of the time.
Alec Swan
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If your figures are correct, and if we assume that the average field is 12 horses, then that's approaching 40.000 individual horse/race days annually. I wonder, if we take 40000 horses in this country which are kept for pleasure riding alone, I also wonder during the course of a year how many sustain fatal field or road accidents and how many die in their stables. An awful lot more than 1400 would be the answer.
To the credit of all those jockeys who pulled up in the National, every one of them did it to save a horse which was tired and had no realistic chance of success. I only wish that amongst the high numbers of idiot pleasure riders that I see, that there was such a commitment to the welfare of their own horses. By and large, the care levels shown to horses in racing and within the UK, are exemplary both on and off the track.
Alec.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
BE and FEI will certainly keep figures as to death on XC courses, I assume BRC and PC would keep logs of this as well (but I assume its not great advertising for PC for example to openly admit how many there's been). There were very few deaths when I last looked at the BE figures. The risk seems to be far far higher for racing. If 4 horses died at one FEI event for example then there would be huge enquiries into it wouldn't there? Hunting, I bet there's loads. I don't support hunting and even if you removed the fox factor I still wouldn't risk my horse hunting. I do XC, but I believe those fences have been made as safe as possible so risk is minimised.
Yes, eventing probably has killed more people however as terrible as any death is, that's the riders choice. All of us who event take that risk, we know what can potentially happen. Horses have no idea.
I'd also argue about the "high welfare standards" of racehorses. Sure, they're well looked after outer wise but mentally? I'd say the life of a racehorse is pretty gruesome if I'm honest, I believe most are stabled 24/7 - pretty dull life especially when they start their careers off so young when they should be learning basic socialising skills in a herd.
Anyway, its really quite pointless argueing about this again simply because nothing will change. The racing industry is worth too much money for anything to damage it.
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Elf On A Shelf
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Yup ... Locked up in solitary confinement, totally stressed out of their brains not learning how to be horses ...
Different trainer. Another who keeps them locked away ... I mean those outdoor boxes really do screw with horses heads ...
http://www.brianellisonracing.co.uk/
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Madam Min
Well-Known Member
I try not to get drawn into these threads but cant sit on my hands! Yes, its sad when horses die racing but tragedies occur in all equestrian disciplines. Horses can have freak accidents in the field and at home. No one in racing sends their horses out to die!!! These antis seem to revel in deaths on a race track! Racing is an easy target as its in the public eye.What they should concentrate on is the overbreeding in the UK usually from half baked mares. Idiots who think its cute to have a foal but fail to think of long term costs. So many horses are then abandoned and dumped! Thats cruelty!!!!
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
well said EKW. I think rather than focus on racing everyone should be focusing of horses and ponies who have YEARS of neglect and die horribly. look at the number of poor animals who have been found by the welfare organisations this year, many of the poor things were too far gone to save and had suffered for a long time. racehorses are looked after well and their end is almost immediate. I am very soft and since the death of dark ivy many years ago I don't watch the national live but once I know what has happened I watch the replay. I hate the fact that some lose their lives but feel there are other more important horse issues, including recent endurance abuses and the horses being made to travel for hours and then killed..
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
EKW - is the horse on Brian Ellison's page called 'Scary' ? I saw him as a foal at Kirklington Stud a few years ago if it is.
Alec Swan
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So why did you start a derail process on a thread which was celebrating a wonderful day's racing and was rejoicing in the safe return of every horse?
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We watched the programme through to the end and what a delight it was to see two of the lads who work for Mouse Maurice with RtW, and both sharing in the pleasure, the responsibility the work and the glory too. Emma asked them when they were going home to Ireland, and they said that they were supposed to be going tomorrow, but that they'd probably stay here and 'party' for a while!
Then there was the winning jockey's younger brother, in floods of tears at his big bro's success. The sense of passion isn't limited by age, it seems.
An excellent day allround.
Alec.
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Ditchjumper2
Well-Known Member
At my local point to point last Sat at least three horses died. One had a heart attack and the other two broke down between fences, one in front of us. The % rate far higher than the National meeting but obviously as not high profile nothing said. There will always be risk, all we can do is to minimise it where possible and provide efficient services when the worst does happen.
Certainly last week the vet and hunt could not have been speedier.
If there was no racing there would be no racehorses. You can never, ever remove risk from any part of life, it is part and parcel of it. It does not make tragedies any less sad, but you have to have realism. There is life and there is death.
Certainly last week the vet and hunt could not have been speedier.
If there was no racing there would be no racehorses. You can never, ever remove risk from any part of life, it is part and parcel of it. It does not make tragedies any less sad, but you have to have realism. There is life and there is death.
asterope
Well-Known Member
It's Top Notch Tonto - his markings are gorgeous!
Elf On A Shelf
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Rule The World has been retired. What a way to end your career - your first and last chase win being in the National! A very sensible and considerate decision from his owners. The horse owes no one anything.
Enjoy your retirement Rule The World!
Enjoy your retirement Rule The World!
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
He could join the HHo team chase group - Denman, B King, Somersby and Rule the World. Unbeatable and what a sight that imaginary team that would be.
Hexx
Well-Known Member
I have heard that Mouse is very careful when it comes to his retired horses and he makes sure they go to good homes. The last thing we would want is another Kauto Star incident.
With regard to fatalities - last year, we lost London to a fractured leg in the field and then the following day my Gus was pts due to toxic laminitis. The month before, we lost Larry to an infected joint that was untreatable. That's three horses off a yard of 30 - 10% by my reckoning.
With regard to fatalities - last year, we lost London to a fractured leg in the field and then the following day my Gus was pts due to toxic laminitis. The month before, we lost Larry to an infected joint that was untreatable. That's three horses off a yard of 30 - 10% by my reckoning.
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Elf On A Shelf
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Kauto went to a very highly respected event rider to do some dressage. Sadly he had a field accident. The way the whole thing was handled was what was wrong but not his second career.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
In my opinion three words should have been ommitted in that statement. Plainly it was the wrong second career in that instance.
More thought should be put into whats right for the horse rather than the people involved.
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teapot
Well-Known Member
I'd rather be a racehorse than a pony in your lower than average run of the mill riding school...
EKW - awful photo, I mean reallly, two on the left look a bit lifeless
Equi
Well-Known Member
If racing died, the thorouhbred dies. It was bred to race. Without it, there will be no real need. They are not the ideal competition/sport horse, they are good at putting good blood onto other horses for that purpose, and yes some go on to have nice careers after, but by and by they are only useful for racing.
Same with hounds - hunting dies they die. No use as anything other than a hound.
Same with hounds - hunting dies they die. No use as anything other than a hound.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Yes, but hunting to kill with hounds IS banned and yet hunting is more popular than ever?
The racing industry has a lot of waste, horses that are not fast enough or sound enough what happens to them?
Times change and I honestly think that racing will have to change or it will go.
The racing industry has a lot of waste, horses that are not fast enough or sound enough what happens to them?
Times change and I honestly think that racing will have to change or it will go.
Elf On A Shelf
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I take them home... I currently have 2 from the yard I work at, a 3Rd from.another yard out on loan and the first one I took home sadly got pts 8 years later from a freak field injury.
And the horse that is currently banging it's door wanting it's feed doesn't shut up in the next 3 seconds I may have to do the unmentionable!
Equi
Well-Known Member
It's not illegal to scent tho it's only illegal to set out with the intention of getting an animal
And racing HAS changed. A lot.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
It's not illegal to scent tho it's only illegal to set out with the intention of getting an animal
And racing HAS changed. A lot.
Not enough to stop a lot of horses dying though sadly.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
More horses die of neglect in this country every day than those that die on a racecourse just its not on the telly so you can shut your eyes to it! At least the BHB publish the figures and dont shy away from it. Its not the huge numbers you would like people to think they are.
Dont you just love the Antis now that all the runners came back safe the big headline they are spouting is 4 dead at Grand national and the meeting bit is chucked in as an after thought if its questioned.
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Elf On A Shelf
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Yup a lot of.people are now focusing on the 2 that died - on the flat - in the Foxhunters over the big fences. Not mentioning that it wasn't the National itself.
They seem that peeved that no horses died in the National that they missed the one that died in the hurdle at the start of the day. Again broke down on the flat between fences.
So do we then question the soundness of racehorses and what effect in-breeding has on them? Does it affect soundness? Is it because the horses are started too young or.not young enough (and before the anti racers start a lot of jumpers don't start work.til they are 4 as they are too big and weak. They are called store horses.)
At the end of the day you will.never please everyone no matter what walk of life you come from.
They seem that peeved that no horses died in the National that they missed the one that died in the hurdle at the start of the day. Again broke down on the flat between fences.
So do we then question the soundness of racehorses and what effect in-breeding has on them? Does it affect soundness? Is it because the horses are started too young or.not young enough (and before the anti racers start a lot of jumpers don't start work.til they are 4 as they are too big and weak. They are called store horses.)
At the end of the day you will.never please everyone no matter what walk of life you come from.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Please don't presume to put words in my mouth!
I don't like people to think it's huge numbers, I'm sorry when it's one horse, unfortunately it's a lot more than that.
I've said I watch and have enjoyed racing but just wonder how long it will go on with the number of horses that are killed, which, like it or not is a considerable number.
Times change and I just don't think it will continue in years to come as it is now.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
Spend a day around the bin end sales, have a drive across the moors, along the motorways, onto a few commons. You will see plenty of equines who would love to be a racehorse.
Madam Min
Well-Known Member
Agreed!!!!!