Natives vs coloured cobs?

Nudibranch

Nudibranch

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Don't get me wrong - I own a coloured horse so I'm not being colourist. However, when I was a kid, everyone rode Welshies (ok, I did grow up in Wales) or other natives, or native x TB's, particularly for competitions.

These days, natives seem hard to come by, particularly the non-Welsh breeds. I noticed (as MoC pointed it out) on another thread lots of us on here are Fell owners but they, like a lot of the natives, seem to be largely superseded by coloured cobs these days. At a recent county show, the large breed native classes had around 6-7 entries while I counted 22 in one coloured class. I'm looking for a Dales to buy and they seem to be like hen's teeth - at least suitable ones.

I don't really understand it. Natives as a group are so varied and have so much to offer between them. Yet some are now endangered. Why? Many of the coloureds I see have very poor conformation and I can't believe they are more versatile/more comfortable to ride/more trainable than say a Fell or a NF. I'm not looking for a bun fight; I'd just like to understand why things have ended up like this.
 
This perplexes me too! I wonder if the prices put people off? when I was looking the natives seemed more expensive, and less easy to find.

I stated off looking for a Highland, and went to see a Fell (which I bought) as I was struggling find one within 3 hours drive (the one that was local unfortunately failed a vetting).
 
Not in Ireland.

The last big show I went to, there were 17 in large M&M, and 13 in the Connemara class alone..

I agree with you though.

Give me a native any day.

Fiona
 
might it just be a fashion thing?
When I was a kid, no one I knew wanted coloured horses as they were seen as a bit common. My first pony was a right Heinz 57 but even she was less unfashionable than the coloured cobs :D Now they are really popular so it's no surprise that there are more about :)

I think it also depends on the kind of circles you are in.. .in dressage there are def still quite a lot of natives around dotted between the WBs - welsh - lots, connies too, especially :)
 
Natives such as Fells and Exmoors are not expensive. Dales youngstock are also cheap but finding a ridden one for sale is like hen's teeth-people hang onto them. Highlands have held their price which was always a bit higher. ime coloured cobs are not more comfortable than a Fell lol.
I do think though, that as the horsey population as a whole get more numpty-ish, they are less able to deal with a Native mindset. They can be strong (this is why we love them as adults), they have a strong self of worth and with Moor bred ones (I have two), a strong sense of survival and never ending quest for food. I am honestly blown away by my Fell, I had preconceptions that they could be ornery beasts but he loves his job and always has some gas in the tank. Couple that with them being as hard as nails in bad weather he's also cheap to run lol.

When I was a kid noone rode coloured cobs-ever. they werent riding horses. People had natives, real cobs, anglos for sporthorses and IDs ID/TBs as hunters and eventers. So you grew up riding ponies that didnt like to be stabled and so got fresh, that could throw a cheeky buck or run to the gate in without parents having melt-downs, that you could ride all day in the summer and only shod when you had to. (I grew up on a rescued Exmoor and a Section C, follwed by a very posh TB x NF hunting pony).Plus you didnt get a baying mob when you saw an adult riding a pony-my dad rode our Section C for years.
 
I think the main difference is that most natives are bred with thought given to the end job, to pay a stud fee, or keep a decent stallion, to register and keep the foal for a period of time all costs money, if the foal is a good example of the breed then it should command a decent return or at least cover the true expense of producing it, many people will not pay a sensible price for a well produced young pony that is not top show potential so the breeders start to reduce the numbers and try to breed just a few very good ones.

Many coloured cobs are not bred with any purpose other than to give the mare a job to do or to save the bother of castrating the colts, they are not put to something to breed better quality, no thought is given to whether they will be sound, of good temperament or anything spent on them other than the basics if and when they have to, if every foal is costing so little to produce then any money is a profit, there are some being bred with more care but with the majority being of low value to start with it means there will always be a good supply and many surplus to requirements that end up goodness knows where or in the hands of welfare.

I have 4 native ponies here all have fully known histories, all would have been fairly expensive when sold at some point, 1 may well have been a 5 figure pony after being placed at HOYS although now he is older he could probably still fetch decent money, they are tough, sound and straightforward, rarely need a vet, are barefoot most of the time and compete in a wide range of activities with success.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I think there are plenty showing but for general happy hacker/family horses there seem to be less.
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I don't see that in the New Forest world - they are seen everywhere, the cheapest large breed native available and they turn their hoof to everything. Just look at Willoway Free Spirit, multiple HOYS finalist in WHP & on the flat, won the 90cm Mitsubishi Cup at Badminton last year and qualified for HOYS again this year. Big ambassador for the breed and still a much loved family pony. I know loads of people whos New Forests never enter a show ring but do all the normal family pony stuff at home. Although admittedly i see less Dales/Fells live that life i guess.
 
NF are the bargain of the horse world. They've had a controlled breeding programme for decades, so the quality for money is unequalled.
I'm currently riding a lovely 14hh grey, who is as flashy as anything, and went through Beaulieu Road for the princely sum of 10 guineas (£10.50!). Much easier generally than cobs (bargy) or welshies (bonkers). I'm surprised they get overlooked.
 
Round here there's welshies galore but not much else. There was one ridden fell but he's gone out of the area, there's 3 highlands but 2 only see a show ring and a school. Theres a few connies outside the show ring but not really in it, no newfie's that I've noticed and no dales, exmoors or dartmoors.
There's a few coloured cobs about but not as many as there used to be. I wanted an exmoor a few years ago but never managed to find one
 
Crackerz said:
I don't see that in the New Forest world - they are seen everywhere, the cheapest large breed native available and they turn their hoof to everything. Just look at Willoway Free Spirit, multiple HOYS finalist in WHP & on the flat, won the 90cm Mitsubishi Cup at Badminton last year and qualified for HOYS again this year. Big ambassador for the breed and still a much loved family pony. I know loads of people whos New Forests never enter a show ring but do all the normal family pony stuff at home. Although admittedly i see less Dales/Fells live that life i guess.
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Fells & Dales are not as numerous full stop. Both classed as rare breeds.
 
Cobs have a reputation for being quiet & brave, weight carriers suitable for novices & good value for money. Coloured ones more popular perhaps due to Chaps classes?

Native ponies can have a reputation of being tricky due to their intelligence. The large breeds probably cost more than the cobs, Connies & Highlands can be pricey. Most of the non Welsh large breeds are rare so you won't see them around as much as cobs

Showing natives has become dominated by producers & breeders breeding for the show ring where as I expect this is less so with the coloured classes where there is no breed standard, so perhaps more people feel they can give it a go.

We have 4 Welshes & my NF on our yard but none of us compete regularly.
 
I counted 5 fells and one dales at my local show last week, for a rare breed there seems to be a lot of them on the show circuits.
 
Because they're common, and therefore familiar so when people go out looking for a quiet allrounder that's often the sort that springs to mind. Saying that there are an awful lot of welshies around where I am too, but very few other native breeds.

I think that by and large, people buy what they know, and there is not enough marketing of other breeds for any use outside the show ring.
 
There can be a lot of snobbery attached to natives, and in certain cases the breeding for what they look like in the show ring and forgotten the end user, which is often a home produced rider.
You can buy a failed show pony, usually a Welsh A or B, for very little money, something who's siblings are winning in the show ring. Its also the same with some of the bigger natives. Common sense is you breed for temperament first, there are a lot of cobs which will never win in the show ring, but they are cheap to keep and a lot have a predictable temperament so they will always have a value.
 
It's the number of breeding mares that has reduced which puts the NF on the at risk register.

For the anoracks (of which I am one!) this maybe on interest. Info taken from last years annual report.

In 2009 a total of 1463 foals were registered, 1313 forest bred. The number of stallions turned out the previous year was 41 and they ran out for 56 days. In 2017 531 foals were registered, 388 forest bred, 15 stallions were out for 30 days. The impact of the scheme clear to see.

The quality of the breed has risen and the saleyard vastly improved giving rise to better prices.
 
Peregrine Falcon said:
It's the number of breeding mares that has reduced which puts the NF on the at risk register.

For the anoracks (of which I am one!) this maybe on interest. Info taken from last years annual report.

In 2009 a total of 1463 foals were registered, 1313 forest bred. The number of stallions turned out the previous year was 41 and they ran out for 56 days. In 2017 531 foals were registered, 388 forest bred, 15 stallions were out for 30 days. The impact of the scheme clear to see.

The quality of the breed has risen and the saleyard vastly improved giving rise to better prices.
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I was really impressed with the prices at the May sales! I bought a Welsh there instead of a NF but pleasantly surprised as i haven't bought from the sale yard for 11 years until this year!
I bought a NF coltfoal at the weekend, so need to sell the Welsh before autumn, ooops!!
 
New Forests can look nice, but I'm personally put off by the fact that they often have short, rigid necks and are thick through the gullet. I find they usually have very short, choppy strides too, unlike section B/C/Ds who can usually extend beautifully.

Around my area Connemaras are incredibly popular and fashionable at the moment (and expensive!).

Section Ds are like marmite. Section A, B and Cs are usually too small for most adults, Dales/Highlands are hard to find and expensive... so that leaves the coloured Cobs!
 
Crackerz said:
I don't see that in the New Forest world - they are seen everywhere, the cheapest large breed native available and they turn their hoof to everything. Just look at Willoway Free Spirit, multiple HOYS finalist in WHP & on the flat, won the 90cm Mitsubishi Cup at Badminton last year and qualified for HOYS again this year. Big ambassador for the breed and still a much loved family pony. I know loads of people whos New Forests never enter a show ring but do all the normal family pony stuff at home. Although admittedly i see less Dales/Fells live that life i guess.
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well, thats great-I love a Newfie, we don't get many here. The natives that should be geographically abundant should be Fells tbh being in the Borders. There are a fair few natives in Endurance up here, or there were. Afraid I dont give two hoots about showing, alot of the natives I see showing could do with less weight, less hair and more bone and I include the breeds I love in that.
 
Coloured cobs are widely available and cheap and there are fields of them around here. A good well bred native is harder to find and people probably aren't that bothered unless they are into showing classes. When I was growing up it was the Welsh ponies that were the common ones, usually Welsh type rather than registered and they were cheap and plentiful.
Then the dealers would often have Irish ponies available. I'm afraid the tide of coloured cobs has washed the others away.
 
My older new forest is as you describe but the modern types are different and some are like mini warmbloods especially the continental ones.

30 years ago coloured horses were fairly rare and discriminated against, now they have a good reputation and reasonable price so of course they are popular. There are more classes for them at shows. 30 years ago I don't think there were cob or coloured classes at HOYS?

I also think as a nation we have got taller and heavier so the sort of horses required is changing. The statistics are quite shocking - most people in England are overweight or obese. 1 in 3 children are overweight or obese by the time they leave primary school. Cobs are good all round family horses often being sensible enough for children and also able to carry a larger adult and with our modern busy life styles normally ok if they are not ridden every day.

From my experience I would also say cobs are probably more straightforward than natives.



SpringArising said:
New Forests can look nice, but I'm personally put off by the fact that they often have short, rigid necks and are thick through the gullet. I find they usually have very short, choppy strides too, unlike section B/C/Ds who can usually extend beautifully.

Around my area Connemaras are incredibly popular and fashionable at the moment (and expensive!).

Section Ds are like marmite. Section A, B and Cs are usually too small for most adults, Dales/Highlands are hard to find and expensive... so that leaves the coloured Cobs!
Click to expand...
 
SpringArising said:
New Forests can look nice, but I'm personally put off by the fact that they often have short, rigid necks and are thick through the gullet. I find they usually have very short, choppy strides too, unlike section B/C/Ds who can usually extend beautifully.

Around my area Connemaras are incredibly popular and fashionable at the moment (and expensive!).

Section Ds are like marmite. Section A, B and Cs are usually too small for most adults, Dales/Highlands are hard to find and expensive... so that leaves the coloured Cobs!
Click to expand...

Come to Scotland and you can't throw a stone without hitting a Highland! But trying to find a good dartmoor or exmoor will have you going far south of the border.

I'm not a fan of coloured cobs. I have given up doing CHAPS classes with my shetland (After spending nearly £100 to get him registered and overstamped by them!) judges rarely look past the cobs and some of them are truly awful examples of ponies but they have the hair! My shetland has hair, an abundance of it but is only half the height!

I have never really got on with Welsh of any section. I have had some cracking examples, currently have a D I have no time to ride and bring on but we clash. Given the choice I would have another Fell and I will get one when my tb's go on their way.
 
Coloured cobs do seem to be easier than natives, less challenging. (As a mass generalisation). Lots have dreadful conformation and to my mind are common, uncomfortable and unattractive!
I love a newfie, and also a connie although they are just too expensive now. Welsh too hot and 'araby', Fells and Dales are lovely but like hen's teeth. Highlands are just too wide. (All just MO).
Many natives have been ruined by becomnig all movement and no bone, as MOC has said.
 
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