Natural Balance shoeing

Weezy

Weezy

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Excuse my laziness but the search function drives me insane! (and the fact this is also in the SY, I need info!)

OK, so P was shod by a new farrier today and he has put NB shoes on and positioned them far back as he was not at all happy with her feet - I wasn't either and think a lot of the mis-stepping probs I have been having have been caused by bad foot balance.

So, gurus of mine, who can tell me more about the thought and reasoning behind NB please - or link me to a relevant thread
 
Ask Tierra, she has them on Jack and gave me alot of advice when I was having trouble with Boo's feet
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ETS :Just had a look and can't find my thread, but basically they reduce the distance between heel and toe, so bring forward the point of breakover. Some people swear by them others won't touch them.
Personally I think the same results can be achieved using quarter clips and taking the toe well back, but anyway. Fwiw, none of the farriers I have spoken to will advocate them, even the two that are trained in fitting NB shoes
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I had them on Tom for ages and it really improved his hind action he is now shod with normal fullers but still set back NB style. The setting back moves and assists the breakover point.
 
I had probs with Crop last year as she kept tripping. After a visit to the vets to rule out any other problems he recommended we try NB shoeing. She has done great with them. They do look strange when they are first put on as they are so far back but after a while they just look normal. Crop's feet are in really good condition now and we don't have tripping problems any more
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Remember 4 point shoeing? After all the bad publicity it got rebranded as Natural Balance Shoeing. My farrier hates it, I can't remember why though so I'm not going to get into a 'discussion' over it.
 
with the NB they make their own breakover point, hence the natural bit I suppose. Crop only has them on the fronts, rears are normal shoes. They've done a great job for us. May be worth a go
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My farrier hates it, I can't remember why though so I'm not going to get into a 'discussion' over it.

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Please try and remember......
 
www.tfp.co.uk will answer alot of your questions which is the Total Foot Protection company........My cob is NB'd as I say,and the shoes will be set back to help with the point of break over........I also had my TB mare on them when she was diagnosed with DJD and they really did help,some horses go well in them and others not at all!
 
Minefield alert!!
Anyway, my experience with NB shoeing was when OH's mare went lame 3 months after a forced change of farrier (old one doing too much work abroad to make long trip to us).
Vet couldn't find anything on xrays, farrier then said 'oh, well, she was on NB shoes before, shall we put them back on?'. Cue me being shocked and surprised that I han't realised she had been shod NB. Anyway, seeing as how he is a 'professional', and having checked with vet, he put NB shoes back on. No improvement - in fact was more lame. Vet came out again and was VERY unhappy with the shoeing, said foot balance totally out. Then I spent ages trying to find another farrier (this one had been recommended by several friends) eventually managed to convince original farrier to make special trip. He came out and said that it was absolute tosh that she had been on NB shoes, all they were was standard shoes flattenned slightly at the front, set back and using quarter clips - his standard way of dealing with horses who tend to be long in toe/low in heel.
So he shod her properly, within 5 days was 1/10 lame having been 4/10 lame on the @NB@ shoes.
So not an experience I would wish to repeat.
HOWEVER I must point out that I and the vet don't think it was the NB shoes that were to blame it was the numpty farrier who put them on (as well as underlying injury)....warning being though if you are going to use NB make sure the farrier you use knows what he is doing and perhaps also consider the option of a farrier adapting a normal shoe to do the same job?
In our case any kind of remedial shoe was a damage limitation exercise as she had already ruptured her deep digital flexor tendon it turns out....perhaps if properly fitted the NB shoes would have worked, but in that instance, they didn't.
Luckily we have now moved horses closer to where original farrier lives and he can come to them again!!
 
Tripping cob - NB shoes = no tripping. However, I was using best farrier in East Anglia so of course the whole balance was correct as well. (Also say she's now been shod NB for 8 years solid). I've moved, new farrier now also puts them on but I don't think is really trained in them. However, he is a good farrier, so again its working well. Interestingly, my retired horse's feet, left untrimmed (but regularly checked) as she is in a sand/dirt turn out all winter, goes into the exact shape of an NB trimmed/shod horse (i.e. short toe relative to width) which I find reassuring. i would always recommend NB shoes fitted by a good farrier for almost any horse to see if an improvement can be made.
 
As has already been said, "Normal" shoeing with set back toes and support under the heels will have the same effect. Lots of farriers are failing to support heels correctly and leave toes too long, so when people then go with "NB" they suddenly think they are miracle workers, whereas if the farrier had been shoeing with a shorter toe and more heel support in the first place, there wouldnt have been a "problem" to solve in the first place! Got nothing against NB shoeing, just think they are unnecessary if horses are shod properly in first place, as my farrier pointed out when spoke to him about them! He shortened G's feet and squared the toes to offer support for a while and to shorten the toe in NB style, but has since kept a short break over with "traditional" shoes
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It all depends on the horse, like anything, I don't think any farrier worth their salt would dismiss them totally - they, like 'normal' shoeing work on some but not on others.

We've had the same farrier since I was tiny but at one point he had to drop us as he had too much work and dropped the whole yard (about 5 years ago). We went with his recommended replacement and then was passed on to his apprentice once he'd set-up on his own as my current horse (Arab) has never had any shoeing problems and always had bog standard shoes and clips......

To cut along story short he went 1/10 lame last October after falling over on the road (this had followed 2 years of tripping/slipping and stumbling). the farrier was adamant throughout this time it was not due to shoeing!!

The vet came out and was shocked at how out of balance his feet were and wanted to speak to the farrier.... the farrier and vet decided together that we needed our old farrier back who very kindly has taken us back on even though he's really busy and only does us at the yard now.

His feet were so out of balance he had to have NB on the front with heart bars and it's taken over 4 months but he's now sound and going better than ever!! Eventually he'll be able to be shod normally again but to be honest I and the vet are now so happy with his feet there isn't really any reason to go back to normal shoes other than cost (but we only pay £10 more for NB).

My farrier doesn't shoe NB as a matter of course - he is a traditionalist and still makes all his own shoes BUT he will do whatever the horse needs and work with your vet to shoe the horse according to the horse wether that be NB or some other type of remedial shoeing.
 
Forgot to add that NB is not just a matter of shortening the toes and raising the heels..... my farrier spent ages measuring Pasha's feet with a special instrument and marking in pen certain points on the hoof that needed to be certain distance from other points etc.... he is also doing work on the hoof wall, bringing it out in places. Basically it has fundamentally changed the way my horse moves - he has a definate heel to toe footfall, he is now 100% straight in his movement and his stride is considerably longer - medium trot is definately WOW!!
 
Ditto KatB
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Unfortunately farriers in this country do leave toes too long and don't make the shoes long enough, something I found out when my WB mare went lame. All the tests, etc showed nothing up, the vet mentioned that she could do with re-shoeing, my reply was she'd only been done 10 days previously. So anyway I agreed for their farrier to shoe her, who took her toe right back and put very long shoes on her....she went from hopping lame to sound as a pound in an hour
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I read in H&H ages ago that farriers in the Netherlands/Germany/France are far better at getting the foot balance right and they leave the shoes very long to support the heel.
 
Very interesting, thanks so much everyone
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Farrier has said that we will see how she goes - he spent a long time watching her in hand and spent a long time shaping the feet to ensure they were correct. He was very happy with the near fore after shoeing as she is now weight bearing across the hoof correctly, but the near hind is still not right and will take a couple of shoeings to get right. He didn't preach, he suggested, and he will revert back to standard shoes in due course should that be the right thing to do.

Oh, and he charged the same amount for NB shoes as standard, so deffo not after a quick buck
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Just back from riding her and although I could hear some clicking and clatting, she didn't misstep once or stumble or trip, so I am happy.
 
Its interesting as in the past I have mentioned NB to my farrier, who god bless him just turns around and says... well if you shoe properly shoes would be naturally balanced
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You know what I think of my farrier and the difference in my horses feet over the years have been amazing.

However, Im pleased youve at last found a farrier you can trust and feel he has helped P at long last.

The only thing that worries me about moving is finding a decent farrier lol
 
soph had NB shoes on when i got her ,when farrier was next due i only got the words new balance out before he said ,ahh load of crap! lol. he also only puts shoes on her front feet as he said she has excellent hooves and so far so good.
 
My mare has NB shoes on the front, if she is shod with 'traditional' shoes then she goes lame!!
She was rescued and when her old owner got her her feet were so badly over grown that she went through months of remidial (sp) shoeing to get her feet right.
Her farrier suggested NB shoes as it would take the stress off her Tendons and support her heels.
Last year when I kept her at my old work I went on holiday and the girls at the yard were looking after her for me, the farrier done her feet and put normal shoes on her by mistake, she went lame the next day and got worse and worse so they called the vet, he done all the usual and said she had done a tendon!!!!, so I came home early all worried took one look at her feet and called the farrier who put her NB shoes back on and within a week she was 90% better.
I would never be without them now as they work really well for her x.
 
After Finn tripping and nearly landing on me.Finn was diagnosed with having negative sole planes in all for feet this meant that his hooves were out of balance with the outer part of the hoof being higher than the inner, this through all his muscles out and cause tenderness in his back behind his saddle.
Finn was given three degree natural balance shoe these have a 3 degree thickness increase in the rear of the shoe, the shoe is seated further back from the toe so as leave a clear gap at the heel this creates a level foot and take pressure of finns heels which were all crushing inwards as a result. His feet are also trimmed quite square.
 
Have NB all round and have done for 5- 6 years, before it became 'trendy'. My horse used to knock his toes out terribly, we tried rolled toes and all sorts of stuff but in the end he said NB. Well he felt totally different in his way of going. Basically I think like most things they don't suite all horses but had great effect on mine. Have also heard a certain farrier in our area saying ' he doesn't believe in them' Got to move with the times in some cases.
 
Not going to get into the debate side of it
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Can only explain my own experiences.

Jack is of long toed, low heeled conformation. He also has very long pasterns. Its always bugged me tbh and the last couple of shoeings in the UK, i *thought* his front heels were getting lower. He also became slightly trippy. He is, however, quite lazy so i didnt think too much of it. He had FULL x rays on vetting and they were all clear, but his conformation is poor - theres no getting around that.

When we moved to Denmark, the new farrier contacted us quite early to say he wasnt happy with Jack's feet and wanted to try NB shoeing. Initially I said no. Hes never lame - ever - and honestly, I was worried that changing the foot balance of a 15 year old sound horse was a bit unnecessary.

Jack got thrush late last year and I actually went to meet the farrier (he developed quite a nasty hole in his foot and i wasnt sure at the time whether it was thrush or something else). We got talking about jacks feet in general and he explained to me what he wanted to do.

Basically, due to Jacks conformation (the long toe issue especially), the break over point of his foot was incorrect. Mark wanted to bring the break over back to where it would be if he had perfect foot conformation. In turn, he said this would help to shorten the toe and bring the heel up (at this stage, jack had very little heel on his front feet). He brought out a massive chart of measurements that he'd been keeping on jack's feet since he first shod him. The chart showed that he'd actually gained 2 mm's in heel depth since he'd started shoeing him but he still thought we could get more than this.

We then went on to discuss navicular. I'd always been somewhat concerned that the long toe, low heeled combo tended to pre-dispose horses to navicular and he agreed that while this was a risk, he didnt believe jack had any changes in his feet and that he was probably at the end of the age bracket for navicular to be appearing. However, he made it very clear that altering the foot balance now was quite vital for his long term soundness (particularly in regards to the lower leg anatomy and strain on the tendon area.)

I agree'd

The day he was shod, I was told to be aware that there could be an initial shortening of his stride (although you shouldnt expect lameness). Jack didnt display any shortened length of stride but he was very clearly moving differently. Its really hard to explain tbh. He was very evidently picking his feet up more. Rather than waiting until the last split second of the stride to move his foot (thus risking a dragging of the toe which can in turn cause a trip), he was picking his feet up much differently.

Initially, there was no difference in the depth of his heel, but his foot shape did change.

He's just had his 5th shoeing. Jack has gained an additional 4mm of heel. I should stress, this sounds tiny and it is but in relative terms for my horse, its MASSIVE. He had terribly collapsed heels when he arrived in denmark and although he'd never been lame, he did sometimes seem to have a general tenderness around the heel area. His toes are much shorter than they were which has made him stand much better. The foot is more upright and just looks a million times better. Before most of his weight looks to be bore down the back of his heel and his toes were long and stuck way out in front. Now, the whole foot looks like it bears the weight and he actually picks his damn feet up and is tripping much much less than he used to.

I know many people dont agree with it but for my horse it was 100% the right decision to take. I wish i'd take photos of his feet prior to the first shoeing to show you guys the comparison. All i can say is that he was the worse low heeled, long toe conformed horse ive seen.

Hes always had good paces to be fair - hes a very floaty mover but he skimmed across the ground more than anything else. His front feet are now clearing the ground much better which overall, makes his action look more active. He actually looks like theres some effort going into his movement. As he has a very active hock action, his front end now looks like it matches rather than a more stumbly, lazy looking, draggy action.

I know some of this will make little sense. Im trying to explain the changes from MY point of view.

To look at - his shoeing does look different. When you pick them up, the shoe is set back about a centimetre from the toe. Obviously, this means he has no toe clasps on the front of the foot.

One more thing to note. Ive had Jack four years now and my trainer had him prior to that. His feet have always been questionable due to his conformation (the quality of hoof is very good, so its wrong to say he has poor feet - he has poor conformation). Hes the best ive seen him ever look. I wish Id had them done when Mark first suggested it, but as i said, i wasnt sure altering the balance of an "aged" horse was right.

I hope that at least helps a bit. Im no shoeing guru though
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Oh I agree with this btw. My post might have made it sound like jack just had his toes brought back. The farrier spent AGES taking measurements and he'd been collecting them over several shoeings. Part of it with jack was something about the measurements regarding the width and ensuring the walls were taking more pressure off the leg. Simply hacking his toes back wouldnt have helped apparently (I did ask him about this) but he insisted that the whole foot balance needed altering to ensure the weight was bore correctly.
 
Thanks SO much for that Tierra
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P has no heel this is what we are trying to remedy, along with the true footfall! Her shoes are about an inch back from where they usually are, am riding in OR boots just in case! I trotted her up the road today and she is deffo moving differently, in a good way
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Yay!
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As i said, it took a few shoeings before ive started to really see an improvement in the depth of heel but it really has started now!

Mark has also been delighted in the change in jack.. to the extent that hes agree'd to keep shoeing him despite the fact im now an hour away from where we were before!

Jacks footfall is much better, he doesnt hit the ground toe first and then trip, the whole foot goes down (which also means the frog acts as its meant to *apparently*!) Can you tell i dont really know much about feet? :P
 
Funnily enough Tom was talking about her frogs today - TBH I didn't really get what he was saying, but something about cutting through a pocket LOL! I hope we get the same improvement that you have had with Jack
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My farrier also spent over 2 hours measuring up Finns feet and its taken 10 months to trim his feet to the shape they are now. I have the vet and farrier coming on Tuesday for his final assessment and to do final xrays after a years treatment so fingers x'd. I will take some piccys of his feet to show how far back the shoes are.
 
I am a big fan of this and will have NB or at least set back 4 point shoes at every opportunity.

Another example, as you know Mister Mole went off on loan some months ago. Straight after he arrive he damaged his check ligament and went on to box rest, when the time came for him to start walking out I went down to visit. By then he had been seen by a farrier down by his new home, his toes were longer, his heels looked like they were starting to collapse - it was just grim.

I recommended NB shoes to the lovely lady who has him on loan, and she promised to check with the vet if they agreed. The vet did agree that this would help his legs as well as improve his feet, Mole was shod NB by a different farrier and is going from strength to strength
 
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